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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 01:09 PM
Original message
Obama; his Church, our People.
I fully accept and understand that Barack Obama has remained a member in good standing of Trinity Church for twenty years, even though some pretty outrageous things have been said there from time to time from the pulpit. I can also understand why Obama did not always make it a personal priority to loudly confront and counter such statements within that congregation whenever they have been made. Barack Obama differentiated himself from those sentiments by the choices he made in his life beyond that congregation, and he was open about those choices and the values they reflected to the people he knew within it.

As an aspiring politician with national ambitions I could not understand it had Barack Obama joined Trinity Church six years ago, because being a member there now complicates his journey forward, since his membership in Trinity in ways undercuts his chosen message and the mission he has embarked on for service to America. An important element of Barack Obama's political agenda is an effort to help lift America beyond the racial divide that has haunted our nation since its inception. Trinity straddles that divide, and sometimes it deplores that divide more than it transcends it.

But Obama did not join Trinity Church six years ago. He did so when he was in his twenties, when he was trying to put together the pieces in his own mind of faith's role in an unjust world, and of the role racial pride plays in a world where racial pride leads some people to oppress others, and where victims of that oppression often internalize a second class racial identity as a result. Trinity Church represents an extended family to Obama now and he coexists in congregation with them in a generally loving spirit.

I do so with my own extended family also, both biological and otherwise. I hold my closest friends to moral values consistent with my own, but I am more forgiving of others with whom I still share some forms of community. I hold to my values and seek to influence my larger community through my practice of them, but I don’t openly combat every instance where my values are affronted. Clearly I coexist with some prejudices around me, and why I do so is complex to understand and describe. Mostly I think it’s because I know society won't be changed by constantly being in each others faces condemning each other for being less than perfect. I respond directly to the worst instances of prejudice I witness, but I witness more than I respond to directly.

Most people aren't mean spirited, most people aren't haters, though some mean spirited things get spoken by all of us at times. Anthropology, sociology, history and psychology teach us that people have always been tempted to divide into us vs. them; there has always been a clan mentality that serves to unify some of us to defend against whatever uncertainty "others" who are "not us" may wish upon us. But people have also always shown a generosity of spirit that offers hospitality to strangers in our midst once the fear of a possible threat has dissipated.

I fully believe that the Trinity Church congregation is no more prejudiced at root than any community that I myself belong to, I even suspect they may be less so. Their sin if any might be that they openly attempt to process the questions of race and inequality in America, and those are questions that are damn hard to process. Ultimately it's like asking, why does evil exist? There is much to be angry about in this world and rage is unhealthy to suppress. Rage can also be unhealthy to release. No one said this was easy.

What all of this says to me now, what the sum of Barack Obama’s life circumstances and life choices to date now tells me, is that he is the American leader best positioned to break the silence concerning the racial divisions that still exist in America. They can’t simply be ignored. As a society we do so only at our own peril, at the expense of our own healing. Barack Obama is the son of a black father and a white mother. He loves his family, all of his family. Together our people form an American family, one in need of a family reunion, or more accurately, one in need of a more perfect union.

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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great piece, Tom. n/t, k/r
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countingbluecars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great post.
K&R
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. kicked and recc'd.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks n/t
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Beautiful post, K&R
:kick:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thank you to all who recommended this
Edited on Fri May-30-08 02:21 PM by Tom Rinaldo
I wasn't even sure what type post I was writing when I started it. My first working OP title was "I don't know how to say this with a sound bite". I'm not sure it really fits into GD-P, but it is where I am most used to posting.
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you! There are serious issues affecting this country and we should keep our focus.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. King said it best:

There is another thing that disturbs me to no end about the American church. You have a white church and you have a Negro church. You have allowed segregation to creep into the doors of the church. How can such a division exist in the true Body of Christ? You must face the tragic fact that when you stand at 11:00 on Sunday morning to sing "All Hail the Power of Jesus Name" and "Dear Lord and Father of all Mankind," you stand in the most segregated hour of Christian America. They tell me that there is more integration in the entertaining world and other secular agencies than there is in the Christian church. How appalling that is.

~ Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Paul's Letter to American Christians, November, 4, 1956


Thank you for your thoughtful post.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That is a really powerful quote
"the most segregated hour of Christian America". Not just segregated, but the most segregated. It is no surprise when even the best among us trip can sometimes trying to bridge that chasm.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. This should be posted on other sites..
this explains it perfectly..
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I probably will post it at a few other places...
...but anyone here also has my permission to use or post it anywhere you want. Thank you.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. very nice
Senator Obama has proven himself patient and loyal.

Now will the people of Trinity return some of that?

They are no longer the neighborhood church of angry disposessed parishoners.

A twist of fate has turned their pulpit into a national listening post and if they want to keep the power that they say they were robbed of for so many generations then they will have to be more circumspect and particular in the message they allow to be presented there.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. That is an excellent observation grantcart
Edited on Fri May-30-08 02:54 PM by Tom Rinaldo
Fate and talent has elevated Barack Obama to a platform larger than anyone likely could have dreamed of when he first joined the Trinity congregation. And now, as a result, the same is true of that church. I believe Barack Obama is rising to this very special moment and I hope that Trinity Church does also.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. I agree. Theologically, they have an opportunity almost
unsurpassed now - the chance to bring the face of active, socially liberal and socially conscious Christianity to the fore. They have a chance to take Obama up on his word that he wants change and a sense of looking forward, not back.

It's time to shine the light on what they've done and will do in the community - for others. Time to put away at least for a while, the focus on the wrongs of the past, and focus on the wrongs happening today.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Brav-fucking-O. The best supporters truly are the recently-converted.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. This needs to be published WIDELY and WIDELY read. Where have you been, Tom Rinaldo ?...
:applause: :applause:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. "Clowns to the left of me , Jokers to the right, here I am....
...stuck in the middle with you."

"Stuck in the Middle With You" by Steeler's Wheel
http://www.geocities.com/babyomlet/amyfiction/joint/lyrics.html

Just kidding. Sometimes though I feel like I'm not really a full fledged member of any "team" here on DU now, but I know that almost all of us will feel like we are on the same team soon.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. I just posted this at Kos
Here is the link if you are curious how it is received there:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/30/201530/213#1
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Great post, K/R. :)
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. While they may be "no more prejudiced at root than any community" in America...
Edited on Fri May-30-08 03:02 PM by Bucky
we have strong (albeit anecdotal) evidence that they are being led wrongly where it comes to racial tolerance. As a community in a democratic society--and as a self governing congregation in a democratic denomination--they have an obligation to reject such illiberal thinking as shown by their former pastor and by their recent invitation and reception of a guest minister.

I don't know much about the current pastor leading that flock, but I do hope he's leading his congregation toward some serious self-examination. Their incidiary intolerance is hurting my candidate's--and presumedly their candidate's--reputation on the national stage.

I mean, jeeze-louise, "I'm entitled, I'm white!" for Pete's sake. When did Clinton ever even remotely saying anything like that? Talk about dumbing down the debate. Remember back when it was Republicans who ran on short & stupid smears and it was Democrats who acted like the grown ups?
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. As others have pointed out
That routine might (maybe) have passed on Saturday Night Live. I think grantcart's post above was spot on. The nation is at a tipping point, there is an historic opportunity, which way are they helping to push? It can be hard to replot your course, but sometimes it is urgent to do so.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. i heard the new kid at the end of a sermon
mention something about we are "living in a gangsters paradise" so i had to actually read the lyrics.....

yup, we are living in a gangsters paradise.

the kid is going to do just fine...
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. i have to be tolerant of your feelings everywhere else.
why do i have to be tolerant of your feelings among my own people. what about my feelings. what about your intolerance of what i believe. i am sorry you feel uncomfortable having to hear about white privilege. but. maybe if you listened without getting your hackles up, you might begin to understand how others feel. that discomfort that you get while watching that-is what i feel when i walk through a crowd of young white teenage boys. that discomfort hits us at least daily in our lives-through work, being followed around the store, being profiled and pulled out of your car by the police or watching it happen to someone else. every time you get that feeling of discomfort remember that i feel that everyday. i don't want sympathy or argument, understand that there are more sides to a story than your own.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. An early evening kick n/t
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. thank you... well said - k/r - nt
.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. thank you!! great points!!
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. oh ya ,great post....
nice to read some sanity once in awhile..
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. Very thoughtful and thought provoking. K&R -nt
:dem:
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. Very nice. BUT, Trinity does indeed need to get beyond "victimization". Obama should make a speech
in a black church saying exactly that, a kind of "Sister Solja" moment.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Oprah left Trinity very quietly years ago.
Obama is a terrific politician, but I still cannot understand why he stuck around when he developed state-wide political ambitions since he is so astute.

I resisted the church that I was forced to attend as a youngster because I thought that the theology was all wrong. I refused confirmation classes. I left altogether as soon as I got out of my parent's house.

I had many friends and a community there, and I'm still friends with people there, but I wouldn't sit there and listen to sermons with which I simply couldn't agree.

My own situation makes it difficult for me to understand why someone so principled could just sit there through Rev. Wright's comments blanket and divisive negative assertions about all white people.

Sorry, Original Poster, I still don't get it.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I don't have much to add to what I wrote in the OP
But though I can't claim to have seen heard or read everything that Pastor Wright said over the years, I really don't think he ever intended to be dismissive to ALL white people, no matter how strongly negative his comments may have been at times about the nature and effects of the predominant white culture in America on people of other colors. I did listen to the speech Wright gave to the NAACP in Detroit prior to his National Press Club Appearance, and his overall comments there were clearly inclusive of all faiths and races, though some of his opinions can certainly be controversial.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I saw that Detroit speech, too.
His discussion of supposed major differences between the brains of black children and those of white children chilled me. I know that the ideas were current back in the '70s, but I didn't realize that they have become accepted fact.

Frankly, if claims that blacks can't learn to read in integrated classrooms, can't sit at their desks, can't understand music from 1700-1900 Europe (called "Classical"), etc., he's really giving ammunition to those who think that black children can't learn and that black people are stupid, and that no money should be "wasted" on their education. I just could not believe that he was saying that stuff because it is so dangerous and, I hope, so wrong.

As to your post, I'll have to give it more thought. You certainly set out your position well. It's just that I can't quite agree with you. Yet.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I agree with you about that part of Wright's speech
For me it was the part that I found really problematic. But Wright wasn't using that in defense of a belief in racial superiority in either direction. As much as I had trouble with it, he kept it within his context of: "different, not deficient".

And Thank you for your feedback.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. You're welcome.
I'm concerned that for many, different in this case will mean deficient.

I hope I'm wrong.

I'll look for your posts in the future.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. I would think one would have to weigh...
all the good that comes out of the church with the unfortunate words of a visiting priest and a rambunctious pastor. I don't know how anyone feels they have the right to trash and bash a Church that has been in existence since 1910, on such little information. I don't get it. Maybe you should go hang out at some black churches? Condemnation prior to investigation is a very ugly thing.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. K and R
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. Sick church
Some non sick people attended sometimes.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. Religion does not play fair and it's dangerous
Somehow, we allow a whole host unpleasantries to be tolerated because of the catch-all excuse of religion. It's the curse of mankind.

If the premise is "religion is inherently good", this ameliorates a lot of the selfishness and righteous clannishness of most religious groups, but if one doesn't subscribe to that assumption, much of it is just a construct for the justification of misbehavior.

We are judged by those with whom we associate, and that's as it should be. Religion is a choice. One should be held responsible for one's actions and for those of one's group. I hold myself accountable for the actions of those of groups to which I belong or with which I ally, and it seems like mere ethical decency for others to do so, too. Sadly, it isn't to many of religious belief; the belief itself is "good", so any missteps along the way just don't count.

Religion is the cosmic trump card. It is its own proof, it can sanctify pure poppycock by the merest imprimatur of its all-knowing grace.

Excusing bad behavior because of the inherent goodness of religion is deplorable. Worse than that, it is anti-democratic; it claims a privilege that the mere groundlings don't rate.

It's also extremely dangerous and has unintended consequences.

Living in a country with ever-encroaching theocratic overtones is bad enough, but excusing and praising the invasiveness is not something I'm prepared to simply stand by and endure. The very term "ceremonial deism" is camouflage for prosetelyzing. Federally funding faith-based organizations is deeply, deeply wrong on every level. This is crap.

This guy is playing with fire, and secularism will be burned at his hands and the hands of many of his blissful acolytes to a point where religion will be more and more accepted as NECESSARY, not just useful, in politics. It's nauseating, chickenshit and tiresome, and the Pandora's Box of unintended consequences calls mockingly for us to open it ever wider.

I'm tired of this mailed-fist of godly theocracy with its velvet glove of rhyming triplets of repetitive sugary vagueness. It's not even good theatre. Not only is it fraught with tactical peril, it's just downright creepy. It's oneness on its own terms. Inclusion of all who go along and conspicuous silence and bland inclusive sops tossed off to those who don't buy the supernatural guess.

We do not owe this guy a damned thing; he owes us to be a decent standard-bearer who can run a successful campaign, and if he's going to have truck with a host of pious, flamboyant antagonists, he's not living up to his end of the bargain. He will be hogtied and conflated with the firebrands and other unsavories with whom he associates, and it's his own fault.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. You state this position well and with real passion
...something I've come to expect from you POE. Clearly consensus on the nature of the role, for good or evil, that religion plays in the lives of humans will continue to remain elusive through the duration of this Presidential election, and probably throughout the next millennium as well. But I stand with Thomas Jefferson on the separation of Church and State as my bottom line. Almost our entire political class seems drawn toward playing with this fire of late.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
41. Thought provoking post
It takes a man of peace to write such a post.

Thanks, Tom.
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mehrrh Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
42. obama's church
Good and thoughtful well-written essay.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
43. Tom, thank you for your eloquence on this.
I think the Obama Family intended to offer a voice of reason and tried to provide a bit of diversity in this church in order to speak to the overall good of all people within the congregation. Bridging these deep gaps and divides truly demonstrates how best to solve the problems of inequality and injustice.

To challenge the assumptions and broaden the understanding of others, one must go out and be amongst those who need to be challenged. You don't avoid the group who needs to see an honest example of tolerance, you target them by joining in their conversation and allowing the spirit of unity to speak for itself.

Preachers from all faiths in America need to learn this. Leading by example, not by condemnation.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
44. Kick.
:thumbsup:
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
45. I Wish I Could Reccommend but I Am Too Late
It's a wonderful post.
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