What happens if we seat fl/mi as is

[Joe the Revelator]

Including not giving uncomitted to Obama in MI? How close would that get Hillary to the nomination?

Because if the answer is "still short", I say fuck it, lets do it, just so she doesn't have a leg to stand on all summer.

[slinkerwink]

1. She'd be 60 behind Obama without superdelegates.

[ij9800]

2. She would be 49 short.

[SoonerPride]

3. The party can't do that, even though Obama might want them to.

You cannot allow rule breakers to get away with no punishment whatsoever.

That leads to anarchy.

It would be the expedient thing to do and at this point Obama would probably say "fine, whatever, seat 'em as is and give me zilch from MI, fine." But the DNC can't let these states violate the rules without some penalty.

The other 48 states have a stake in this too, you know.

[kirby]

4. But then you reward rule breaking...

And then next election cycle some other state will up their primary earlier and there will be another war to be first/early. And then all those rule breakers will claim MI/FL as precedent and bitch that the DNC is disenfranchising the voters of their locality.

[Swamp Rat]

5. Folks in all the other states learn they, too, can break the rules and get away with it.

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

I'm impressed.

:D

[Oregone]

6. That would violate the mandatory penalty

If you are going to change and start making up rules, why not give Obama 500 delegates for not being an asshole (in addition to this)?

[mohc]

111 short

"Alternative" Delegate Votes
(no sanctions)
Need to Nominate 2,210.0
B Obama 2,085.0
H Clinton 1,974.0
(available) 308.0
Uncommitted 33.0
J Edwards 18.0
No Preference 0.0
Total 4,418.0

"Soft" Delegate Votes
(FL, MI sanctioned)
Need to Nominate 2,026.0
B Obama 1,984.0
H Clinton 1,781.0
(available) 278.0
J Edwards 7.0
No Preference 0.0
Total 4,050.0

So it moves the gap from 203 to 111, a net of 92.

[mohc]

9. Note

This includes 22 uncommitted MI delegates that have publicly endorsed Obama.

[cali]

7. no. the DNC shouldn't do it.

There have to some repercussions to stave off future renegade states. And if they did do it, that would probably be interpreted by Hill as meaning she has a shot, and she'd campaign like crazy all summer.

[scheming daemons]

8. What happens is that every state then moves their 2012 primaries to next week.

Total Chaos.


There must be SOME punishment.

[CreekDog]

11. then comes the argument that it is "a tie" and should be decided later

they have an answer for every move and the answer is to justify saying "it's not over yet".

there's no getting around that.

[MUAD_DIB]

12. One question...

What were FLA and MI thinking?

[Oreo]

13. Here you go....

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/fl-mi-by-numbers_21.html

Obama would still be ahead by 89 delegates and would need 146 more to win

Clinton on the other hand would need 235 delegates to win.