Why is it racism?

[liberalcommontater]

Geraldine Ferraro recently wrote:

As for Reagan Democrats, how Clinton was treated is not their issue. They are more concerned with how they have been treated. Since March, when I was accused of being racist for a statement I made about the influence of blacks on Obama's historic campaign, people have been stopping me to express a common sentiment: If you're white you can't open your mouth without being accused of being racist. They see Obama's playing the race card throughout the campaign and no one calling him for it as frightening. They're not upset with Obama because he's black; they're upset because they don't expect to be treated fairly because they're white. It's not racism that is driving them, it's racial resentment. And that is enforced because they don't believe he understands them and their problems. That when he said in South Carolina after his victory "Our Time Has Come" they believe he is telling them that their time has passed.

The folks commenting on this at New Republic agree that Geraldine has lost it.

I disagree.

I think what she is saying is that race has been used by Obama and/or his surrogates and supporters just as effectively as the unpatriotic charge was used by Bush. ie, you can't say anything about race or the effect of race, white or black, without drawing a charge of racism and racist motives. This charge is meant to shame you into shutting up or not speaking in the first place. Just look at how her comments have been savaged. Not considered, debated, ignored, agreed with or disagreed with on the merits, but savaged. If you agreed that more African-Americans than usual for a Democrat are voting for Obama (90%+) because he is black you are a racist too. When white voters vote for Hillary in larger than usual numbers, WV and KY, they are portrayed as racially motivated.

I may be wrong here, but the following statement in context is saying something important. "It's not racism that is driving them, it's racial resentment." What is the difference? I think what she is saying is that white voters who do not support Obama are not against him because he is black. It is not racism that drives them. These white voters she is talking about have been champions of equality and justice, as she has, and resent that their judgment about Obama and consequent lack of support for him is used as evidence that they are racially motivated and therefore racist. These folks resent having a racism charge used against them when they have no racism in their hearts. They should resent this.

This is will come back to haunt us in November.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Um uh broadbrush bullshit

some white people are racists who will not vote for the n*. Some white people wont vote for Obama but are not racists. Some white people are racists who will vote for the n* for reasons other than their racism. Some white people are not racists and will vote for Obama. We white people come in many flavors.

Geraldine said this:

“If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position," Ferraro told California's "Daily Breeze" newspaper. "And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/03/11/politics/horserace/entry3925257.shtml

That is the racist rant I'll call "the damn n*s get all the breaks and are so lucky to be n*s" meme. It is the massively odd idea that being an african american is somehow an advantage in the united states. It is a racist meme carefully cultivated since Wallace and Nixon as the acceptable form of n*-hating.

[liberalcommontater]

3. But don't you think...

that when used against Democrats that it is especially effective and irritating? Are you saying that it is never an advantage to be black?

I tried to say that she was referring to regular democrat liberals, like myself, who would never support any racist policy or politician being accused of racism and the resentment that would engender.

Agreed, there are racists. This is different. These are folks who are not racist being accused of racism and their justifiable resentment. I think this is what she was saying.

[George_Bonanza]

6. Obama's "racial advantages" are canceled out by things like Rev. Wright

Look at John McCain: his spiritual advisor committed the truly cardinal sin in politics and not only brushed off the Holocaust but also said that God himself was behind it. And did anybody really care? No. It was news for half a day and John McCain quickly distanced himself from Hagee and all was well.

However, Obama was nearly annihilated by Rev. Wright, and to this day, one peep from that Big Bad Scary Black Church and everybody thinks Obama is going to be Spartacus and lead a (former) slave rebellion. Obama continually has to apologize for remarks that OTHERS make, while Hillary and McCain get away with half-hearted "I'm sorry if you were offended" apologies for remarks THEY THEMSELVES have made.

[Tim4319]

12. Not one time has Hillary Been asked to apologize for Geraldine Ferraro!

It's a huge double standard! Barack is suppose to apologize for what other people say, even when he made it clear that what they are saying is not his views. But, Hillary gets a pass for the comments that Geraldine Ferraro made. That is not right!

[George_Bonanza]

16. She has not even apologized to Obama for her assassination remark

Now I don't believe that Hillary, even in the slightest, actually wishes harm on Obama. But imagine the stress that his family has gone through since he announced his candidacy. If she were a more sensitive person, she'd at least make a gesture of apology to the Obama family. But nah, let's just roast Obama everytime some Black guy he knows says some stupid shit.

[liberalcommontater]

18. The problem is that the human thing to do is to apologize any

time you say something that someone could take offense even if none was intended. In politics it is an admission of some level of wrong doing.

[Tim4319]

19. True,

Because, easily some "nutcase" can listen to that remark, and decide to take matters into his/her own hands.

[JoFerret]

30. No need to apologise

She said nothing for which she should apologize.

[sniffa]

7. Um, you're wrong

People saying racist things are being called racists. If you're not voting for him, you're not called a racist - you're called a Republican (unless you live in PR, MT, or SD).

[Warren Stupidity]

9. yeah its a huge advantage

"As for Reagan Democrats, how Clinton was treated is not their issue. They are more concerned with how they have been treated. Since March, when I was accused of being racist for a statement I made about the influence of blacks on Obama's historic campaign, people have been stopping me to express a common sentiment: If you're white you can't open your mouth without being accused of being racist. They see Obama's playing the race card throughout the campaign and no one calling him for it as frightening. They're not upset with Obama because he's black; they're upset because they don't expect to be treated fairly because they're white. It's not racism that is driving them, it's racial resentment. And that is enforced because they don't believe he understands them and their problems. That when he said in South Carolina after his victory "Our Time Has Come" they believe he is telling them that their time has passed. "

Geraldine put her foot in her mouth three months ago and is still trying to squirm her way out of it.

"Are you saying that it is never an advantage to be black?" - never is a bit strong. The NBA, for example, is disproportionately african american. Clearly for the .000000000000001% of the population that will have an NBA career, being born African American was helpful. Otherwise, by almost all statistical measures, not an advantage.

As I said, the odd theory that it is somehow an advantage to be an african american in this country is the acceptible form of racism carefully cultivated by the Republican Party since 1968.

[chieftain]

49. "...democrat liberals..." Why the Republican usage?

[liberalcommontater]

54. You are right...

as I was writing I was thinking democrat? democratic? and wrote democrat as in democrats. I do listen to Limbaugh most days on the way home from work to hear what he is fomenting. Perhaps it is having an effect. Bad choice.

[chieftain]

60. Yes,a bad choice but is it a revealing choice as well? eom

[liberalcommontater]

68. How so, be specific.

[chieftain]

77. Specifically, I assume the worst about anyone using the cheap

Republican trick of using "Democrat" as an adjective rather than "Democratic". When I hear reporters use the formulation you used, I figure it is revealing of where their loyalties lie. It is a useful device for seeing where people really stand. BTW I too listen to Rush but I have never parroted his way of speaking. Too chaotic for me.

[liberalcommontater]

80. Thanks for pointing this out, don't want to perpetuate the meme...

I should have used a comma or just said democratic...democrat, liberal

Cheers

[roguevalley]

104. it is called racism because it is. Barack has worn a bullet proof

vest since her RFK comment. consider that.

[hfojvt]

58. your brush is the broad one here

Ferraro said something about Obama. Obama, and her critics generalize it to be that she said something about all blacks in America. She said something about one person.

Of course, the same thing happens on the Clinton side sometimes. When people say negative things about Hillary, other people generalize it into a supposed attack on all women.

[Warren Stupidity]

67. Ferraro did say something about Obama. You got that part right.

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position". Obama's advantage, per Ferraro, is that he is not white. According to Ferraro, being not white, specifically in this case be african american, is an advantage. It is the racist 'they got all that good affirmative action stuff' meme. You just can't get around the racist depravity of her statement no matter how you twist, turn, or deflect. Nor can she, which is why she should stop trying to explain it.

[liberalcommontater]

69. Acknowledging the fact that his race has had an effect on the democratic

race has nothing to do with racism. Even if those of us who believe this are wrong, it is still not racism. It is an observation that we are right or wrong about.

In marketing, I am told, it is called a purple cow. Differentiation that people notice.

[Warren Stupidity]

71. That ain't what she said.

She said way more than 'it had an effect', she said that he would not be where he was today if he were white. You have to restate her position for her, as she has also tried to do, because her original statement was simply racist crap.

[liberalcommontater]

75. Clearly, I don't see it that way.

Whatever the size of the effect, acknowledging that there is one is not racist. She could simply be wrong, but she is not a racist.

[hfojvt]

91. no it wasn't

What is the difference between "it had an effect" and "he would not be where he is today"? Not that much. Split the black vote between Clinton and Obama and on Super Tuesday, he loses Kansas, Alabama, Georgia and Missouri. His margin of victory in the states he wins is smaller and Hillary's margin is bigger. It makes enough of a difference to keep him from becoming the front-runner. It also makes enough of a difference to blunt his following ten state victory. Is a white Senator from Illinois, no matter how eloquent or charismatic gonna win Washington DC by 75% to 24% against the wife of somebody called 'the first black President'. Would a white Senator Obama from Illinois get Oprah's endorsement and red carpet treatment from the press who stirred up excitement about "the first black President"? If the effect is big enough to keep him from being the probable nominee, and I think it is, then there is nothing wrong with the "he would not be where he is today".

[liberalcommontater]

94. Yes, and the bigger issue is so what? He is where he is today...

race alone would not have taken him this far otherwise Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton would have already been president.

The fact that in this case his race works for him only opens the door, he has to be the candidate people can vote for at that point. Remember Fred Thompson, the next Reagan. That hype went nowhere. All the hype in the world would not make Obama an effective campaigner, he has done that.

[hfojvt]

95. it's not affirmative action

it's getting 90% of the black vote. Do most white candidates get that? In the primary? (If Hillary hadn't been running against a black man, she might have gotten it.) What about Oprah's endorsement? I know that she can sell millions of books just by plugging them on her show. Is her endorsement a powerful thing? Getting the black vote and the endorsement of powerful black celebrities is an advantage. Do you think his skin color had nothing to do with getting that advantage?

[Warren Stupidity]

100. Do most white candidates get that?

Actually yes, most white democratic presidential candidates have gotten 80-90% of the black vote everey election cycle for a long time. Oh, in the primary. Hmmm... I have no idea, but most likely some have. I understand Bill Clinton was hugely popular with african american voters.

"What about Oprah's endorsement? I know that she can sell millions of books just by plugging them on her show." Primarily to white women. I know you think you had a point there, but damned if I know what it was.

Black support for Obama only solidified after he demonstrated he could be competitive in very white states like Iowa and Hew Hampshire. It seems that the typical african american voter is first and foremost a loyal democratic party voter, and eager to support one of their own if he can demonstrate that he is viable.

But that is not what Ferraro was complaining about. She was evoking the 'affirmative action meme' where 'them blacks' just get where they are because they are so lucky to be born with the black advantage.

[hfojvt]

105. nice of you to read her mind

a selective skill since you cannot also follow my point about Oprah.

I thought it was pretty simple.
Oprah's endorsement nets publicity and nets votes.
Oprah didn't endorse Gore over Bush, or Kerry over Bush or any other primary candidate. This is the first candidate she has ever endorsed in either a primary or a general election. Did her endorsement of him have nothing to do with the fact that he is black?

Black support solidified when he started campaigning in those places, I am not sure Iowa or New Hampshire had anything to do with it.

Rather than assume Ferraro had some hidden meaning to her words, I prefer a straight interpretation, that being black has helped to put him where he is, and I don't think it's racist to notice that or comment on it, but it does show how people, even those who probably have good records, will be tarred with that label on pretty flimsy evidence.

[liberalcommontater]

107. That is my issue...

unfairly smearing someone because they say something they think is the truth. If I have said something here that sounds racist, I can only assure you that that is not what is in my heart. There is little defense against a charge of racism except the truth which in this case is the very thing prompting the charge of racism.

[hfojvt]

114. the truth is not a defense, nor the idea that "I thought it was true"

If I think Saturn is the largest planet and say so, nobody is gonna think that's a reflection on my character. Similarly if I add the numbers 27, 568, 43, 98 and 127 and get 862 because I made a typo in my calculator or made an adding mistake, again, nobody is gonna attack my character.

However, if I make some sociological observation that I think is true like "white people are more honest than black people" it's not gonna be a defense against racism to say "but I think that's true". You cannot justify derogatory stereotypes by arguing that you think they are true. Any racist is gonna think his prejudices are justified by truth.

The kicker about Ferraro's statement is that a) it is not derogatory towards all non-whites, and b) it really isn't that derogatory about Obama. Many people attacked her though, by broadening it, like she made a statement about all blacks in the USA instead of Obama and this election. Her statement was kinda like Obama (experience, character and abilities) + male gender + black skin beats Hillary. If you had the same combination Obama + male gender + white skin, Hillary would already be the nominee. Hillary has already beaten three white guys with more experience, and even one with high name recognition since he ran for VEEP. Ferraro also said it's hard to imagine a candidate with the same abilities, experience and character as Obama who was female getting as far as he did. But she got attacked as if she made a statement about affirmative action or about the status of black people in America. It was a pointless statement, and not really relevant in deciding who to vote for, but not something that revealed Ferraro's deeply racist soul, even though the attacks seem to have made her a little unhinged.

[liberalcommontater]

115. Good point...

But, the difficulty occurs when we talk about race or racial issues and everyone being sensitive to racism is ready to label something as racist, this I think stymies discussion between people of good will.

Take us for example, you seem to be a reasonable person. You and I discuss race in this campaign. We could easily do so. If I said something you thought was racist you would probably give me the benefit of the doubt that I was just blind to the issue and discuss it with me. You would not recoil in horror, slam me for my hidden racist tendencies and no longer trust me.

Let's take a second pair, myself and someone here on DU who sees racism under every rock. I am the same reasonable non-racist person, but I say something questionable because I see the situation differently. The reaction I get offends me and puts a huge distance between us.

How can we make progress on the national discussion on race when it is so charged?

[George_Bonanza]

2. For God's sake!

1) The "racist" pro-Obama black voters have shown in the past the willingness to vote for white candidates, EVEN WHEN THERE'S A BLACK CANDIDATE IN THE MIX (i.e. David Dinkins and Michael Steele). Hillary's Appalachian "feminists" have not shown the likewise racial magnanimity, and at least 20% of them are self-admitted racist voters.

2) Geraldine Ferraro is whining about being called a racist after she pretty much labeled Obama as an affirmative action presidential candidate. That's a racist remark no matter how you paint it.

3) Hillary, not Obama, is the one trying to tell everyone who will listen that the only reason she lost the nomination was because of malicious sexism. Yeah, the DNC and the media are so sexist that they pretty much penciled her in as the nominee starting way back in 2005. Hillary lost because she ran a piss poor campaign built on a foundation of caving into the Republicans.

4) More people are tired of being falsely called a sexist than a racist. Obama's support among whites, even working class whites, is damn good in everywhere except Appalachia and the Deep South. Tell the whites of Oregon, Wisconsin, Maine, Washington, and Colorado that Obama's a big scary black man. Maybe your wish will come true!

[Evergreen Emerald]

4. well said.

And it is true. Obama has used race this whole campaign to shut people up for fear of the charge of "Racism!"

[George_Bonanza]

8. Provide examples

Disclaimer: calling Obama an affirmative action candidate IS racially insulting remark, and not "constructive criticism".

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. Obama has little experience in office...and if he were a woman

he NEVER would have gotten as far as he did. That is what Ferraro was saying, and that is an accurate statement of America.

[Eric Condon]

20. Well, Zellary is a woman and has even less experience in office, and she's made it this far.

Try to make heads or tails of that, then.

[Evergreen Emerald]

50. I will not dignify your name-calling post with a learned response.

[Arugula Latte]

53. Hillary mostly had second-hand experience through her husband.

That's not exactly the same as first-hand experience, now, is it?

[Eric Condon]

66. Yeah, because there's no response to give.

Obama HAS held elected office longer than she has, that's a fact (not that it matters in the long run, I'm just refuting your original point). Hillary has made it this far, as a woman, with less elected experience than Obama, so your original point that Obama would never have made it this far as a woman is moot.

Also, I don't consider it "name-calling" to refer to her as Zellary, because it's not an ad hominem attack, it's an attack on her policies, which in my opinion, are conservative and GOP-enabling, just like Zell Miller. It's not the same as calling her "a name" just to denigrate her as a person. It's a commentary on the fact that she is, indeed, a Democrat in name only. If she doesn't want to be called a DINO, then she shouldn't vote and act like one.

[liberalcommontater]

76. I disagree, but respect the fact that you have logical reasons.

[George_Bonanza]

23. Blacks really reel in the votes, don't they? That's why there are so many blacks in charge!

To paraphrase one of my favourite movies, "Primary Colors". That is, ironically, a sympathetic portrayal of the Clintons.

[Evergreen Emerald]

24. I do not understand your point.

[George_Bonanza]

26. People like Ferraro think blacks have advantages. If that is so, why the paucity of powerful blacks?

Obama is the only black senator.

[roseBudd]

27. Why all the indicators for blacks whether income, mortality & morbidity, unemployment etc.....

are so much worse for blacks?

[Evergreen Emerald]

41. you are totally missing her point

[Evergreen Emerald]

40. You are totally missing her point

[liberalcommontater]

34. The point is that it is working for Obama, not all African Americans.

Back in 1987 when I started teaching in Flint Michigan we had a district wide meeting at Whiting Auditorium. When the program began we were all asked to stand for the singing of the Black National Anthem. Never having heard of such a thing at the time I was slow to rise. Some of my white colleagues noticed I was not standing yet and suggested I just stand. I did so.

I have always been taught, have always taught, and always believed that we are one nation, that equal rights are our ideal. To stand for the Black National Anthem felt at the time to be honoring the separate nature of our different experiences, not our common ones or our future. We need to make common cause because of injustice and bigotry. Not exploit them for political advantage at the expense of our lifelong allies. This is moving backwards.

[sniffa]

56. The Black National Anthem, eh?

[nemo137]

64. Lift Every Voice and Sing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_Every_Voice_and_Sing

Beautiful songs. It's my number two choice to replace the Star Spangled Banner when we get a national anthem that represents the whole of the country, rather than just the East Coast.

Lift ev'ry voice and sing,
'Til earth and heaven ring,
Ring with the harmonies of Liberty;
Let our rejoicing rise
High as the listening skies,
Let it resound loud as the rolling sea.
Sing a song full of the faith that the dark past has taught us,
Sing a song full of the hope that the present has brought us;
Facing the rising sun of our new day begun,
Let us march on 'til victory is won.

Stony the road we trod,
Bitter the chast'ning rod,
Felt in the days when hope unborn had died;
Yet with a steady beat,
Have not our weary feet
Come to the place for which our fathers sighed?
We have come over a way that with tears has been watered,
We have come, treading our path through the blood of the slaughtered,
Out from the gloomy past,
'Til now we stand at last
Where the white gleam of our bright star is cast.

God of our weary years,
God of our silent tears,
Thou who has brought us thus far on the way;
Thou who has by Thy might
Led us into the light,
Keep us forever in the path, we pray.
Lest our feet stray from the places, our God, where we met Thee,
Lest, our hearts drunk with the wine of the world, we forget Thee;
Shadowed beneath Thy hand,
May we forever stand,
True to our God,
True to our native land.

[sniffa]

65. Oh, I know what it is

Just sounds fishy, and convenient for the OP.

[nemo137]

72. Sorry about that

I didn't mean to be insulting or anything.

[sniffa]

103. Don't be sorry

I didn't take it as insulting. :hi:

[nemo137]

108. Thanks

I worry about being taken wrong, especially in GDP. I can't wait until this is decided for real and I can stop walking on eggshells.

[liberalcommontater]

78. How is it convienent? I knew the title, but that was not

relevant to the point I was making.

[sniffa]

102. Not that you didn't use the title

But, that it happened at all

[liberalcommontater]

109. I am still unclear...

1) Are you agreeing with my premise that charges of racism are easy to make and difficult to defend against and can be used as a weapon unfairly?
2) Are you suggesting that the situation with Lift Every Voice and Sing did not happen at all or what?? I am still being dense about your convenient comment.

Thanks.

[liberalcommontater]

70. Yes, that's it.

[izzybeans]

52. hahahahahaha

He has more experience in elected office than Clinton. :rofl:

[roseBudd]

5. Reagan Democrats are not democrats they are Republicans & have been for some time

Bill only got 39% of the white vote.

Uneducated low information Appalachians are predjudiced. I live in SW OH. I go camping in rural Eastern KY with my black husband. I can see it in the looks we get.

Edited to add.

When I knew I was going to be driving the back roads of Louisiana with hubby, I died my curly hair much darker. Being of an olive complexion anyways and one of those white people who darkens considerably in the summer I felt it would help me pass from a distance, especially with sun glasses hiding my eyes.

[liberalcommontater]

10. Wouldn't it be great if the perception and the reality of...

Barack Obama was that of someone who would be able to appeal to all segments of society...ie Robert Kennedy in the black community. I am not suggesting that I want Obama to appeal to Republicans or racists, but all Democrats. That is what will be needed to win in November.

I teach in a school that is very diverse. It is the personalities of the children that make them who they are. I never think that so and so is black, white or hispanic. It is relationship based. That is what I suspect you find among people who know you. Your husband is not rosebud's black husband, he is Joe. Thanks for you perspective.

[George_Bonanza]

14. Obama has won in every pocket of the United States

Except for Appalachia and some parts of the Deep South, but those are not constituents that we should compromise ourselves to placate. You make it sound as if Obama DOESN'T have the most votes, the most delegates, and the most states won thereby reflecting his broad appeal.

[roseBudd]

21. My point is that the low income undereducated whites predictably were where all the dirty looks

came from. They were Southern and they were Appalachian. My siblings moved to the Panhandle of FL and we do not like going there to visit because of the racism. If you are white and aren't a race mixer you may not see behind the curtain. I do. Those hard working white people in WV & KY as are the low income whites in the Panhandle are predjudiced. My brother throws a beach party every year and my black husband sat in some racist's beach chair. I was also sitting in someone else's beach chair, but I'm white so it was OK.

Geraldine Ferraro insisting they are not, does not make it so.

Edited to add, one of my earliest race mixing epiphanies occured in FL while visiting St. Pete before we were married. I had not considered FL the South because I thought it cosmopolitan. It very much is the South. And it very much does have a very predjudiced white population.

[liberalcommontater]

36. No doubt there are racists. Don't you think...

that there are many white voters who agree with Clinton and Ferraro who are not racist and are offended at being labeled that way?

[roseBudd]

59. Nobody labeled them racists. Link please. Anonymous forum posts don't count.

White racists who voted in any of the Democratuic primaries whether they live in KY, WV, FL, etc. more than likely did not vote for Obama.

[Tim4319]

11. Period.. Point.. Blank!

People in this region of the country will not vote for a black person, if the black person was Jesus Himself! That is the way it is, period point blank!!!!

[liberalcommontater]

13. Sorry to hear that.

[GoldieAZ49]

17. The racist accusation means nothing anymore. It is laughable.

It has been so overused it no longer has any bite to it. Desensitizing racism by the democrats in the primary has already done damage. When I heard Dean make a racism charge against republicans I just had to laugh. It is a dead horse.

Any accusations of racism against fellow democrats or republicans can and will be easily dismissed by Obama's church and pastors. The church has provided video to America showing their racism.

Can you imagine a white church bashing black people in general and a black candidate in particular the way Trinity has?


I hope they will all be jumping up and down waving their hands when McCain is elected, they will be able to take credit for it.

[lastliberalintexas]

22. It shows we have a great deal to work on

"They're not upset with Obama because he's black; they're upset because they don't expect to be treated fairly because they're white."

Two sides of the same coin. It's incredibly racist for voters to assume that they won't be treated fairly by a politician *just because* s/he is of another race. I really can't believe anyone could see that any other way, whether it's described as racial prejudice or racial resentment is immaterial really.

[enki23]

25. oh look, another load of horseshit

.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

28. "Playing the race card" is a bullshit RW meme, just so you know. nt

[JoFerret]

29. I think Ferraro's comments are spot on

as far as many people are concerned.

All the fulminating about her racism is just that. And most of it is disgraceful and poisonously deceptive too.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

43. Yeah, white people just can't catch a break in America.

:eyes:

[liberalcommontater]

46. We are talking about Obama only.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

48. "they're upset because they don't expect to be treated fairly because they're white"

In your own words.

[JoFerret]

62. That's not what she said

.

[Warren Stupidity]

74. "He happens to be very lucky to be who he is

If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position,"

Go ahead. Your turn.

[JoFerret]

79. First you are switching the quotation

Second...I stick by my original statement.

[Warren Stupidity]

82. "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position

He happens to be very lucky to be who he is."

It just doesn't matter how those two phrases are arranged. Everyone else on the planet except the Clinton supporters gets that this is racist crap. If you really think that being a black man running for president is an advantage, you like Ferraro, need to have another go at that concept.

[JoFerret]

85. Just a thought

rabbits.

[liberalcommontater]

87. I would be happier to vote for a black candidate than a white candidate...

if I felt they met my criteria simply because they are black because it breaks another barrier to equality, it gives hope and recognition to the importance of major parts of our population. I just have doubts that Obama is that man. In this case is it racist to want a black candidate because he is black?

[ebdarcy]

31. If someone is truly afraid of electing the black man,

because they're afraid they're going to lose their majority status and power, then of course they're racist. They're also ignorant morons. This mindset is nothing but reactionary fear and prejudice, and it should have no place in a civilized society.

Let me be clear. If the fact that he is black is the reason they're not voting for him, then they are racists. It doesn't matter how they try to rationalize or justify it.

[liberalcommontater]

37. I agree completely. nt

[GarbagemanLB]

32. The moron said Obama is only where he is because he is black.

You can just as easily say Hillary is only where she is because she married Bill and is a woman.

[liberalcommontater]

38. Would you agree that in these two cases it has been

an advantage for Obama to be black and for Hillary to be a woman, former first lady and Bill's wife?

Certainly these qualities are not sufficient to have gotten them where they are, but have they helped?

[roseBudd]

61. No, he outsmarted her pure and simple. He picked the right message for the right time

He won. He won because of the savvy choices he and his advisors made.

He won because he galvanized an army of new and enthusiastic voters.

He won because he motivated an untapped pool of first time small donors who believe enough to put their money where their votes are.

He won because he is capable, smart, savvy, talented, a great orator, and because he has charisma.

He won because people want what Obama is offering.

If not now. When?

And since this thread is about racism, Hillary has garnered and benefited from the votes of white racists, white voters who have never voted for a black candidate, which is not the same as African American voters, who since the Civil Rights Act of 1964, have been overwhelmingly favoring Democratic candidates who are for the most part white.

One black Senator out of 100.

43 black members of congress

[liberalcommontater]

81. I think Edwards was a far better candidate than Obama, yet

it was seen as a disadvantage for him to be "the white guy" running against a woman and an African American. Race and gender can both help and hinder a candidate. It is not the whole of them.

[roseBudd]

111. His message did not resonate.

[ShadowLiberal]

33. GF seems to have a double standard on sexism & racism, but she's got me thinking lately...

Reading her article really made me think that she was using an unfair double standard to attack Obama. Basically her argument went something like this.

-"Women were supporting Hillary to see the first female elected president and shatter the glass ceiling for women, but then black people decided to support Obama because he's black".

-"Other people decided to support Obama because of reverse racism and not wanting to be viewed as a racist, others don't like how that black people benefit from stuff like that and affirmative action that doesn't help them so they get called racist".

-Claims Hillary was suffering from sexism and Obama played the race card.

Overall, her whole argument seemed to me basically summed up as "reverse sexism (supporting Hillary because she's a woman) is ok, reverse racism (supporting Obama because he's black) is dead wrong, Obama is guilty of crushing the dreams of millions of women".

Her article did get me thinking though, as an Obama supporter, what if Hillary and Obama's situations were reversed? What if Obama was the long time Washington insider who looked like the overwhelming favorite, was leading nationally by 20%+ before Iowa, and Hillary was the new to Washington change candidate who managed to stun everyone by overturning Obama's massive lead? As much as I'd hate to say it, there would probably be charges of racism and reverse sexism, and people saying that white people had all ganged up to stop a black man from getting to the white house.

[liberalcommontater]

42. Lots to think about. Thanks for adding quality to the discussion...

I think a lot of what is going on is based on personal experience and perspective. My grandmother hit the glass ceiling and was pissed. When Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill had their dust up she was livid that Hill had to go through what she went through even as the testimony unfolded before we knew all the "facts." I don't think this kind of thing is sexist or racist.

It is racist to not support someone because they are black, sexist to not support someone because they are a woman.

Is it sexist or racist to support someone because they are a woman or black? I suspect folks who do this also have other reasons, where the racists/sexists have race and gender as their only reason for not supporting a candidate.

[OzarkDem]

35. Obama's "racism" strategy is patently obvious

and the only people Obama is fooling are his own supporters.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

44. Your racism is patently obvious.

No one is fooled by it. I don't even think you are fooling yourself.

[liberalcommontater]

47. Obvious? Do you think Obama's race has helped or hindered...

his campaign overall?

Clearly it has been a factor to some degree, yet he is winning!

[Warren Stupidity]

73. According to the Clintona campaign: both.

As the need suits them, Obama is advantaged by his being black, or he cannot get elected because he is black. There appears to be some sort of poltical quantum effect here where depending on how you observe the Obama particle: its african american heritage gives it an unfair advantage or hopelessly cripples it.

[liberalcommontater]

98. Don't you think that his race has help and hurt him? nt

[liberalcommontater]

45. I am sure they do not see any racism strategy...

It does fit with Obama's background in community organizing. Saul Alinsky in Rules for Radicals makes use of the opponents strength as a source of strength. As a community organizer, I understand Obama was a diciple of Alinsky.

Bill Clinton was our first black president. Hillary has spent her life working on liberal causes. The easiest way to puncture this perception is to charge them with betraying their greatest strength.

Even if what they say is true, Jesse Jackson ran a good campaign in SC and Obama is running a good one nationally. And, even if Bill intended to use this compliment against Obama to try to minimize his chances, ie Obama has limited appeal, that does not deserve the charge of racism given the Clinton's long record on civil rights. But it does have the intended effect...they will do anything to win, they have only used us in the past, etc.

[papapi]

39. I respectfully disagree with your entire analysis. Geraldine needs to chill.

[Elspeth]

51. When you get to the point where you can't talk about reality because you'll be called "racist"

Then there is a problem.

[Arugula Latte]

55. Geraldine cries "SEXISM" over everything and thinks racism is nothing.

As a woman, I am ashamed of her. To think I once admired that nasty creep. Ugh.

[LordJFT]

57. the comment she made was shameless race-baiting

and she deserved to be called out on it

[Shakespeare]

63. The utter ignorance of so many posters on this board on issues of race is the single most....

...disappointing fact about DU.

But, of course, ignorance has always been the very foundation of racism, so I don't know why I should be surprised by that. :-(

[liberalcommontater]

83. Do you agree..

that many issues that are called racism are not? I was not sure from your post if you tend to agree with what I have been saying about charges of racism in this campaign.

[Shakespeare]

86. You need to be more specific before I can answer your question.

I will say, however, that there is no such thing as "reverse racism" (to say so shows a truly fundamental lack of understanding about what racism is), and the term "racial resentment" is simply a euphemism for racism.

[liberalcommontater]

88. Let's be generic...

The white candidate accuses or criticizes that black candidate of something. The response from the black candidate is that the criticism is racist when in fact it is not.

In your mind is this even possible?

[Shakespeare]

92. sorry, but that's too generic.

If there's something specific you're referring to, please elaborate.

[liberalcommontater]

97. Specific examples have their own baggage...

but I'll try. Bill's comments in SC were actually praise, not criticism. Let's say for argument sake they were veiled criticism as in, Obama has limited appeal just like Jesse Jackson. Is this inherently racist? Is Obama's response 1) I have wide appeal...you will see it in the up coming caucuses or 2) he is trying to marginalize me as "the black candidate" which is injecting race into the contest...Bill and Hillary are racists.

I have been accused of being a racist for telling students to stop talking, or giving one student a break when they have never been in trouble and then another student does the same thing, they have been in trouble many times for similar things. They do not get as many chances. Is this racism? No. Is the charge legitimate? No.

This is the point of this post...if we are going to make progress in our society on issues of race, it should not be used to keep people down or to accuse people of being racist so the accuser can have their way.

What do you think?

[Shakespeare]

99. good god, no, they weren't words of praise--they were intended to be dismissive.

And I required no spin from any pundits or anyone's campaign to have that impression--as did no one else. He was very clearly pointing to how inconsequential Jackson's SC win was, and using that comparison to dismiss Obama's win there. Clinton WAS trying to marginalize Obama.

I don't think you can make sweeping, generalized pronouncements on what and what is not racist (unless you're talking about something as simple and straightforward as name-calling or discrimination). The kicker about racism is that so much of it is subtle, so much of it uses coded language, and that by nature requires that statements be examined on a case-by-case basis.

[liberalcommontater]

106. My real issue is not whether Bill's comments in this case were

or were not racist. It is how do you apply charges of racism when it is subtle and avoid those that should not be leveled at all. Bill very well could have been trying to marginalize Obama. Is this racist in your mind? Why not do this if he wants his wife to win?

FYI, I do not think I am racist in any way. If I did or thought something that I recognized as racist I would stop or do my best to examine it and change my thinking. That said, since we are talking about SC, were Bill's actions racist or just effective(ineffective?) campaign strategy or both? I tend to think the middle answer. Wouldn't he have said something to minimize the effect of a win there by John Edwards?

[Faygo Kid]

84. Well said.

You would think from reading many of the posts here that race has played no role in this country's history.

[VotesForWomen]

89. it is scary the way the press has been silenced on this issue, for fear of being called racist, i gu

guess.

[smoogatz]

90. Shorter Ferraro: when standing in a hole, keep digging.

I guess if you're both a racist AND an egomaniacal narcissist and you make a huge ass of yourself in public, this is the required response. She's kind of the white Rev. Wright, but not nearly as smart.

[windoe]

93. Very convoluted reasoning.

Interpreting others interpretations and intent risks projection.

OK lets say some people have looked racist to you. What kind of harmful 'agenda' do you think Barack Obama has? I can tell you one thing, voting for the alternative, McCain, will be forwarding the most racist, violent agenda we have ever known. Your point is moot.

[liberalcommontater]

96. Not if the people Ferraro refers to stay home in November. Then

we all lose.

[windoe]

101. I believe this is a MSM meme

JUst like all the sexist hoopla to divide the Democratic party, and I won't buy into it. You are free to interpret reality as you wish.

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

110. This is problematic

The OP put forth an argument in a nonconfrontational, thoughtful manner, and has done the same in all responses, which is very rare. This is a somewhat important point in terms of dealing with some independents in the general election. Some of those people may feel turned off by Obama's campaign if they think any criticism will result in them being called a racist (whether that is objective reality or only subjective to them). I might disagree with it, but it's possibly a point to be dealt with in order to win the GE.

I think it's better to discuss something like this, instead of say things like "your point is moot" or some other comments in this thread that attack the OP or make standard GDP responses.

[liberalcommontater]

116. Thanks, although I am a Clinton supporter...

my theme throughout my time here at DU has been victory in November. It is difficult at times to refrain from being drawn into the details between Obama and Clinton, but I think the bigger picture requires us to see past both of them. Neither will be king (or queen) though at times I think Bush has had that fantasy. Thanks for your encouragement.

[brindis_desala]

112. You are ignoring who created the "problem".

There was no need to suggest that Obama was lucky because he was black (he's actually bi-racial but who
makes that distinction now that African Americans decided to vote him). Would Ferraro have said that John Edwards was lucky to be a rich white male when he ran n 2004? His resume then was no thicker than Obama's.

At no time have I heard anyone in his campaign suggest that voters rejected him because of race.
That is the media's construction which Ferraro was happy to augment and amplify.
I would suggest that by injecting charges of reverse-racism and sexism into the contest Ferraro has purposely increased the odds that our candidate will lose in November.

[windoe]

113. I apologize for using such harsh words

-it has been so frustrating seeing all of these posts about racism and sexism, which to me originates from the MSM distorting and not accurately representing what the candidates say in full context. There are many definitions and experiences of racism, and to be accused of being racist when you do not think you are, is certainly alienating and hurtful. This is an alienation that would turn away voters.

Geraldine Ferraro does not think of herself as racist although other people would define what she said as racist. But I do not think she was a good example of your point because Ms. Ferraro chose to turn the tables on those that were genuinely offended by her statement. It would have worked better if she acknowledged that offense in some way rather than turn against those that she hurt. Ms Ferraro went on attack mode, which made the situation worse and not better. It left too much obviously open to interpretation which is why she is being discussed to this day. Having worked so hard for equality and against discrimination in her life, she was profoundly hurt with the accusation and could not recover.

People are tripping all over their words and interpretations around here, it has been a brutal race this year. I will watch myself.