What was it exactly that Kerry said after Vietnam to piss people off.

[LostInAnomie]

I have heard from local vets that they won't vote for him because of what he did after the war. What did he really say? Is it really that bad or is it the usual distortions that repubs use?

[xray s]

1. he told the truth

and some people can't handle the truth.

[Cerridwen]

2. He came out against the Vietnam War

To some people, there is nothing worse than being anti-war, it's unamerican, unpatriotic, weak, etc.

He also publicised many of the atrocities which happened in Vietnam.

Made some of the soldiers look bad. It was a different world back then and the soldiers were coming home to hatred and cries of "baby killer."

[LostInAnomie]

3. So was it anything that didn't really happen?

Or something that did happen and they just don't like hearing about it?

[Cerridwen]

4. It happened . . . it was the truth as mentioned above

there were a lot of hard truths during that time.

I turned 13 in 1970, I saw some of what happened first hand, heard about it from older friends and family, studied it some in school. Sad times in some ways.

[TaleWgnDg]

7. Yes, I remember that time very well . . .

Kerry returned from Nam a much decorated war veteran. And, yet, he protested the war as many did at that time. He also appeared before congress under oath and gave testimony before congress speaking against the war. President Nixon had a few choice words about Kerry that are caught on tape . . . Kissinger and Nixon trashed Kerry in the Oval Office as they both were expanding the war in Nam and into Cambodia and Laos (w/o the knowledge of congress).

Some returning Nam vets didn't like Kerry's protesting, didn't like Kerry telling congress that the war was all wrong, and didn't like Kerry telling congress that "war atrocities" were committed by American troops . . . in "no fire zones" . . . those who couldn't handle the truth then still cannot handle the truth today . . .

And then there was protesting Nam vets who tossed their ribbons and/or medals in protest against the war . . . some Nam vets hated that too . . . and still ruminate about it, over and over again . . . like cows chewing their cud.

=================================================
How did John F. Kerry earn his War Decorations?
Are they "ribbons?" Or are they "medals?"
And, why is Karen Hughes making a fool of herself, yet again?
http://www.time.com/time/election2004/medals /
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2859861.p...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4836412 /
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped... /
=================================================

[spanone]

15. I remember that time well myself and KERRY WAS RIGHT!

He had the nerve to tell the truth of the autrocities committed and the futility of that war. The TRUTH will always piss someone off.

[blondeatlast]

16. It happened, they just didn't like hearing about it.

And since Vietnam was actually broadcast to us, we knew what was going on over there.

We weren't under this 24 hour news channel sedation.

For an hour each evening, we saw a hint of the reality of the war and we didn't like it.

[slojim240]

17. It was Kerry PLUS over 250 other soldiers who wanted their stories told

Kerry was their spokesperson. He admitted to his own part in the atocities and was telling Congress how our soldiers were committing even worse. Lots of returning soldiers felt the same way as Kerry. Only those who really enjoyed being able to kill and maime really were angry about what Kerry did.

[JohnnyRingo]

5. He was also involved in normalizing relations with Vietnam

And laying the MIA issue to rest.

Some people had visions of a return, militarily.

[cynatnite]

6. Bad Feelings

A lot of vets had problems with him testifying with what he is said while young men were dying in Vietnam. They see it as a betrayal of the worst kind. It gave every soldier that served there a black eye in their eyes. Even the ones that didn't engage those crimes.

He spoke the truth, which they didn't like, but it was compounded by the fact that young men were dying as he did it.

Cyn:)

[Old and In the Way]

8. What you never hear though is-

what was the rationale to keep young Americans dying in VietNam? Without the VVAW, we could have lost another 10,000 Americans....and accomplished nothing else.

Kerry was right, of course. I give him and the VVFW full credit in finally turning popular American sentiment against the unwinnable war in SE Asia.

[Leilani]

9. Also, according to the POWs

the antiwar movement, Kerry included, was used to torture prisoners.

McCain disliked Kerry based on this...they then got to know each other & became good friends.

But many POWs are very bitter. That is also why they hate Jane Fonda.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. Kerry and Vietnam Veterans Against the War

Annotated Version of 1971 Senate testimony




The tone was sneering. But the secretly recorded dialogue illustrates just how seriously Kerry was viewed by the Nixon White House. Some of these conversations have not been previously publicized, and Kerry said he had never heard them until they were provided by a reporter.

Day after day, according to the tapes and memos, Nixon aides worried that Kerry was a unique, charismatic leader who could undermine support for the war. Other veteran protesters were easier targets, with their long hair, their use of a Viet Cong flag, and in some cases, their calls for overthrowing the US government. Kerry, by contrast, was a neat, well-spoken, highly decorated veteran who seemed to be a clone of former President John F. Kennedy, right down to the military service on a patrol boat.

The White House feared him like no other protester.

<snip>

During private conversations with other group leaders, Kerry suggested that a veterans rally be held on the Mall in Washington, an effort Kerry hoped would refute Nixon's charge that the protesters were mostly college "bums."

"It was my sense that it wasn't going to be heard unless we went to a place where the issue was joined," Kerry said. "It was my idea to come to Washington. It was my idea to do the march. I floated that idea at the Detroit meeting. We all decided to make it happen. I became the unofficial coordinator-organizer."

Some members of the antiwar group viewed Kerry as an opportunist. He hadn't testified during the Winter Soldier hearings, hadn't organized the group, yet now he was seeking to become the coordinator and spokesman. But plenty of veterans also realized Kerry - erudite and clean-cut - was the ideal foil for those who viewed the group as hippie traitors or even communists.

So Kerry became the face of the organization, and a media sensation.
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml


Kerry on the Dick Cavett show.

[maxsolomon]

22. on the cavett show is where he debated o'neill

the MSGOP documentary shown during the dem convention had much of his testimony - i could see why he pissed the blindly patriotic crowd off royally.

its really hard to admit you were duped.

[UdoKier]

11. He told the truth.

That the war was wrong, that soldiers were being ordered to commit atrocities, that the Vietnamese didn't want us there, etc.

Many vets support him, but there are many who invest so much emotionally when they volunteer to fight in a war. To concede that a war you fought in was wrong and that your country is not always in the right would just turn their worlds upside-down too much for them to handle.

I don't think the anti-Kerry veteran contingent is a figment of repukes' imagination. What percentage actually feel that way is anybody's guess though.

There are still millions who think we lost because we didn't fight it the right way, or because our hands were tied or because we should've nuked them.

The question of whether we were right to go there or not isn't a valid one to them. We were there fighting "godless communism", the ultimate evil in the world. The notion that the Vietnamese people should have some say in their government never occurs to them. All nations should have the good sense to submit to our will because we know what's best for them!

[TaleWgnDg]

12. gee . . . your last few sentences sound as if you are inside

the head of George Walker Bush. His "axis of evil." His "crusade" against those ungodly Musli . . . eeerrrrrrr, against "terrorists." And that after our defeat of Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi people would have the "good sense to submit to our will because we know what's best for them!"

indeed.

[mfritz]

13. atrocities

Many are mad because he protested the war.

The part that I think really bothers some vets, and which the RW will exploit, exaggerate, and take out of context was his testimony about atrocites. he talked about free fire zones and burning villages which were violations of Geneva Conventions, and said he participated in both. He made an analogy to Ghengis Khan. The Vets against the War had taken testimony (Winter Soldier) from vets talking about atrocities and Kerry reported some of their accounts.

He placed the blame where it belonged - on the political and military leadership. It also happens to be true. Free fire zones and burning houses are well known. Bloodier atrocities have also been well documentd - My Lai Massacre and Tiger Force (Toledo Blade won Pulitzer for this investigation recently) are two good examples you can look into.

RW is saying he admitted to commiting atrocities, and that he slandered and dishonored all vets by saying they all committed atrocites. They also say his testimony was all lies.

MF

[James T. Kirk]

14. Kerry's "atrocities" speech

Kerry came back from Vietnam and claimed that atrocities were widespread and that he himself had committed them. That's what made people mad. The vast majority of Vietnam veterans are honorable people and didn't like the brush he painted them with. Now the speech is all over the internet.

Link:
http://www.google.com/search?q=john+kerry+vietnam+%22They+told+the+stories+at+times+they+had+personally+raped,+cut+off+ears,+cut+off+heads,+taped+wires+from+portable+telephones+to+human+genitals+and+turned+up+the+power,+cut+off+limbs,+blown+up+bodies,+randomly+shot+at+civilians,+razed+villages+in+fashion+reminiscent+of+Genghis+Khan,+shot+cattle+and+dogs+for+fun,+poisoned+food+stocks,+and+generally+ravaged+the+countryside+of+South+Vietnam+in+addition+to+the+normal+ravage+of+war,+and+the+normal+and+very+particular+ravaging+which+is+done+by+the+applied+bombing+power+of+this+country.%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&as_qdr=all&start=60&sa=N

I'm having trouble finding a full transcript of the speech. It's all so much discussion group arguments now.

[realFedUp]

19. Kerry speech link

democracynow.org has the only original tape I believe.
The speech can be found here:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/30/1510259&mode=thread&tid=25

[vetwife]

18. He told the truth ! Enough vets on here know it ..Oneill

can't even own up to the truth 40 years later. It was a senseless war, but people wre lied to then just like now. The soldiers were told under command to do things that they have to live with everyday now. Kerry spoke the truth ! My vet was in the jungle fighting as Kerry spoke and he was glad Kerry spoke about what was going on.

[Chango]

20. Colonel Hackwort confirmed what Kerry said:

(Most decorated solier azlive - 5-yea Vetnam Veteran)

...during
that shameful war, there were thousands of such atrocities. My parachute
battalion's first big "kill" in 1965 was a night ambush at An Khe that
destroyed a tribal family who hadn't gotten the word about the curfew. The
draftee unit I skippered in 1969 -- as I've recently discovered while doing
interviews for a new book -- had at least a dozen such horrors. Most were
reported at the time as "enemy killed." Thirty-two years later, the
participants say: It was the easy way out; we couldn't handle the shame; the
command was constantly pushing the body-count figure.

Everywhere our young men fought in Vietnam, where there were civilians, there
was carnage. Especially in the Mekong Delta -- where Kerrey's commandos were
hunting and being hunted by an armed enemy who was everywhere.

Most of us have heard of William Calley's My Lai massacre, where hundreds of
noncombatants were cut down in a bloodbath led by a madman. But ask anyone
who fought in the Delta, where 35 percent of Vietnam's population lived, if
civilians got caught in the middle of the cross fire -- and the answer has to
be yes.

Few innocents were killed on purpose. But it was a war with no front, and few
of the enemy in the Delta wore uniforms or fought by the rules of war. Also,
many women, children and old men were "freedom fighters" not unlike Americans
during our War of Independence.

My division in the Delta, the 9th, reported killing more than 20,000 Viet
Cong in 1968 and 1969, yet less than 2,000 weapons were found on the "enemy"
dead. How much of the "body count" consisted of civilians?

John Paul Vann told me in April 1969 when he was in charge of pacification in
the Delta that "at least 30 percent were noncombatants" and that he'd spoken
to President Nixon about having the 9th immediately pulled out of the Delta.
A month later, the division got its marching orders.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Hell, in those days all you had to do was watch the evening news.

War crimes were committed before our eyes almost every evening. Burning of villages, bombing civilian targets, prisoner "abuse", assasinations...the only thing missing was the gas chambers. Kerry just pointed out the obvious.