so, let's organize, re: Dem_Strategist

[ulysses]

Per Dem_Strategist's suggestion towards creating groups to focus on different issues, I propose that, in this thread, we list specific Republican/right wing thought-worms and specific responses to them that we would make that would both put *them* on the defensive and help our side to keep from having to give ground. We'll organize the best of these and hand them in a document to D_S.

An example.

Thought-worm: Public schools are failing and we should provide monetary assistance to poor students for private school tuition.

Short responses:

- Tuition assistance from vouchers is likely to fall far short of what most poor families would need to send children to private schools, while taking money away from the already-struggling school they're in.

- If we wanted to truly help all students achieve, we would provide the kind of economic assistance necessary to allow poor parents to spend time reading to their children instead of having to work multiple jobs to make ends meet.

- There are far too few private schools in the nation to handle a great influx of students from public schools, and those that do have room are under no oversight concerning what and how they teach.

***

Anyone up for it?

[donco6]

1. When offered, few low-income parents take advantage . . .

. . . of these programs. On a wholesale level, they cannot solve the problem of low-performing schools.

One solution: Help schools develop pay plans that reward good teachers for staying in low-performing schools. What happens now is that, as teachers gain experience, they also move up on the transfer totem pole. As soon as they can leave, they get out of a low-performing school to move to one that isn't constantly being bashed for poor performance (wouldn't you?) So there's a constant drain of experienced teachers, WHICH IS THE SINGLE-MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN IMPROVING STUDENT PERFORMANCE.

The pay plans have to be worthwhile, fairly applied and involve some amount of decision-making power.

[stepnw1f]

2. Social Security Doesn't Work, It will die anyway

- Placing Social security funds in the hands of greedy people on Wallstreet is a gamble. That means every citizen will no longer have any control on their future, displacing the power of the vote into a lottery system already proven to be over-run by corruption. Displacing any form of public service in the hands of private companies weilds the citizen that much more weaker and inneffective in our Democratic System.

[Proud liberal Kat]

3. Outright Honesty here

I am as politically active as I can find the time for. I am a Mom of a 21 month old, I work full time and so does my husband. We work opposite shifts so that we minimize the need for spending on daycare and maximize the time our daughter spends with her parents.

The amount of information out there is gargantuan, I spend way too much time on trying to filter it in the first place...my daughter hates the computer and is always pulling me away from it and closing the doors on the armoir for it.

So my point being I find lists like this, the daily misleads etc very helpful to me in the political activism that I do do. It helps me to spin back to the Bush spin in letters to the Editor, in debates on line and in person. It helps me to answer questions of those I am registering to vote for the first time who have even less time than I.

So I would love love love it if there were good quick bullet points I could arm myself with to more effectively fight the good fight between bath time, play time and the all important sleep time!
Kathy

[ulysses]

4. I think this could be helpful on a number of fronts, yeah.

:kick:

[sandnsea]

9. rotfl

"my daughter hates the computer and is always pulling me away from it and closing the doors on the armoir for it." I can just picture that. lol. My 18 year old son calls mine my "propaganda machine". It doesn't stop!

You've got your hands full so it's great you're finding time to help at all.

:yourock:

[AmandaRuth]

5. yes - sign me up

let me know who/where/when stuff, i too have limited time, and would like to help where most effective. My main beef with boosh and all rethugs in general is the media and the middleclass destruction they are bent on, would like to help there, like the school stuff you suggested.

also, it would be helpful for me (and others in the same situation) for Dem strategist to remember that a lot of people have are still using dial ups and have slow connection speeds, I can't get thread to load once they run over about 100 posts. I have to rely on threads like this to recap.

[ulysses]

6. we need to just do it.

It'll never happen otherwise, trust me. Can you give us a right-wing talking point and a couple of sharp rebuttals you wish the campaign would use off the top of your head?

[Jawja]

19. Okay, ulysses,

Here are some talking points I got from Matt Dowd of the * campaign on today's "Face the Nation":

- The election is dead even or the election is real tight.
- Bush’s approval ratings went up in August; Bush got a bump from the Democratic Convention.
- Kerry is a “flip-flopper,” using the Patriot Act vote, the Iraq War vote, “No Child Left Behind;”
- Bush built a bigger international coalition for Iraq than the one built for Bosnia and Kosovo;
- The Swift Boat smear is about banning 527’s from political advertising;
- The economy is as good as Clinton’s in 1996;

No doubt, we've heard a variation of all of these before.

Any thoughts?

:hi:

on edit: for starters, how about "Bush did not adequately fund "No Child Left Behind." Sure looks like a "flip-flop" to me.

[ulysses]

20. economy 2004=economy 1996???

Did he throw numbers around? I'm guessing that they're taking obscure economic numbers and spinning them into greatness - that's where I'd suggest we start puncturing crap like that, then bring out the true numbers on joblessness.

NCLB - this could be a major weak point for Shrub if the campaign would only exploit it fully.

:hi:

[Jawja]

21. Transcript

of the interview:

Dowd: "...this is the same economy that senator kerry's advisors like Gene Sperling said what Bill Clinton wanted to run on. There's 5.5% unemployment in 1996. There's 5.5% unemployment today. Home ownership is up over what it was in 1996. Inflation is lower than what it was up in 1996. The number of jobs created in the first six months of this year, almost exactly the same as it was in 1996. So if Bill Cclinton and his advisors which are now advising John kerry's campaign think it was a great economy in 1996 we actually think it's a pretty good economy."

[ulysses]

24. I'd love to see someone more versed than I am

in economic stats unpack this some. Anyone?

[noamnety]

27. Comparing the unemployment rates of Clinton vs. Bush

Claim: Bush's unemployment rates are better than Clinton's, based on a comparison of the rates after 4 years in office.
Jan-June Average Unemployment

1996: 5.5%
2004: 5.6%

A comparison showing an increase and decrease puts this in perspective - Clinton's unemployment rate after 4 years in office reflected a decline in unemployment during his term, whereas under Bush, unemployment has increased.

1992 7.5
1993 6.9
1994 6.1
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997 4.9
1998 4.5
1999 4.2
2000 4.0
2001 4.7
2002 5.8
2003 6.0

source of data: http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm

[ulysses]

28. that's perfect.

:)

[ContinentalOp]

41. The soundbyte, talking point version of those statistics

would be to state "Under Clinton, the unemployment rate dropped X percent while under Bush it has risen X percent. When Democrats are in office the economy is good for everyone while Republican policies only benefit the very wealthy."

Of course you would have to plug-in the actual percentages of increase and decrease. I tried to figure this out myself but when it comes to math I have the IQ of a Republican. I also am not sure if you would count 92-99 for Clinton or 93-00.

[mzmolly]

7. We need to address the faux tax break!

In Minnesota they laid off 600 teachers in Minneapolis this year, and eliminated after school programs for free. Now parents are paying $400 plus per month for what used to be paid for with our taxes. Property taxes also increased, and I didn't save ONE DIME on my taxes this year, NOT ONE.

We are paying for Bush's tax cut for himself by losing teachers, programs, police, firemen/women etc...

We need to break this down and repeat it over and over again.

[ulysses]

8. can you put that in a sound bite or three?

I would, but I'm working on lesson plans in the other half of my brain. :)

[mzmolly]

12. Sure....

I'll think on it a bit.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. How about...

"Bush didn't really cut taxes, he just passed them down to the state and local level"?

[ulysses]

33. good!

You could also tag the end of that with something about the debt. :)

[mzmolly]

34. Great!

:hi:

[BillZBubb]

10. Bush*s tax cuts created economic growth.

-No, the tax cuts did not create growth. They created huge, record deficits where the government had to borrow against future taxpayers. Deficit spending has spurred some growth, but it is not sustainable. We can't keep borrowing and spending forever. Someday we will have to repay our debts.

-We are still over 1 million jobs below where we were when Bush* took office in 2001.

-The tax cuts have been very good for those making over $200,000 a year, but have been almost worthless to everyone else. They've been wiped out by higher medical costs, insurance payments, tuition, and local taxes brought on by Bush* policies.

[ulysses]

11. thanks

:thumbsup:

[Proud liberal Kat]

15. adding to that

when taxes go to those with the most money there is less direct stimulus to the economy than when given to the lower and middle classes. Those who make 50,000 dollars a year will spend a tax break on needed items, those who make 500,000 dollars a year will not be as likely to directly inject their tax breaks back into the economy.
Kathy

[ulysses]

13. anyone else?

:kick:

[buycitgo]

14. how bout ideas for commercials?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x623999

[ulysses]

16. maybe it's own "focus group"?

In the interest of being able to create those focused, bulleted lists to send to the campaign, dontcha know. :)

[Carni]

17. I have researched and written for a while and would like to help

Below is a google link to some stuff that I researched and wrote for Democrats.com (and some other assorted stuff to buzzflash etc)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22catherine+arnie%22&btnG=Google+Search

Unfortunately I am not strong on ALL topics and I am better on dirt digging than I am at formulating talking points... but if I can be useful I'm up for the task (I spend as much time as I possibly can on this but my time is often fractured and will be getting really tight after Labor day)

[ulysses]

18. throw it out there, then

I'm not into spending time trying to figure out logistics right now. That can come later, assuming we get ourselves together enough to do this much. This is the organization at present, such as it is - start throwing and see what sticks to the wall! Remember, though, we're looking for sharp, soundbite type stuff aimed at puncturing GOP talking points.

[Carni]

22. 200 charachters or less- I know the drill

I am going to formulate and snoop around on IWR.

I'll post it here.

[ulysses]

23. cool.

:thumbsup:

[Carni]

26. This is what I came up with

Loose idea after scouting around about Kerry's statements and bush transcripts about IWR--maybe some person more clever than I am could cut to the chase a little quicker than I was able to--this isn't my forte'

Truthfully, I am not sure what context to put this in but this was my basic idea based on both the lies of Bush and the conditions under which Kerry states he voted for IWR)

Hey I TRIED! LOL (this ain't my day job)



On September 26, 2002 George W Bush proclaimed to the world in a rose Garden Press Conference:

"The danger to our country is grave."
"The danger to our country is growing."
"The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons."
"The Iraqi regime is building the facilities necessary to make more biological and chemical weapons."
"According to the British government, the Iraqi regime could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order were given."


When Senator John Kerry cast his vote in favor of IWR he responded to the President's call with:

"Let me be clear: I am voting to give this authority to the President for one reason and one reason only: to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction if we cannot accomplish that objective through new tough weapons inspections."

John Kerry submitted his "Aye" vote on IWR in good faith, based on the precedent... that what a President of the United States presents to his citizens and the world at large, is indeed a collection of carefully reviewed facts... proving without a shadow of a doubt that it is necessary to go to war only as a very last resort.

George Bush as the commander and chief of the United States vowed to the American people that Iraq posed a Grave and present danger to the US and the world at large, due to their possession of Weapons of mass destruction.

After almost two years, a record federal deficit to support the war, a thousand dead US troops and an unknown number of innocent dead Iraqi citizens, there have still been no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq.

Americans and the world at large need a United States President that can be trusted with the decision to go to war based on fact and careful consideration, not emotion.

[ulysses]

31. that's fine.

Thanks!

[oasis]

42. Talking points. The distribution of flyers with succinct talking points

on issues near and dear to voters. The info is out there, we just have to put it together in a comprehensive form.

The Rushbots get a steady diet of half-truths and outright lies. We have to flood their environment with the truth which will at least show them that there march back to the dark ages is futile.

The right wingers nightmare is an organized left.

[noamnety]

25. More on schools and vouchers

Another few points on this:

Public schools are failing and we should provide monetary assistance to poor students for private school tuition.

1. Private schools set their own admissions standards and have the luxury of picking and choosing who they accept. The result is that the gifted/connected students will get a sound private education with vouchers, and the average and below average/nonlegacy students still will not have other options. As the brightest students are siphoned out using vouchers, the average test scores of the remaining students will be lower because of brain drain. It will be nearly impossible for such schools to recover from being listed as a failing school under these conditions.

2. Outsourcing doesn't just affect the families that lose their jobs. Their loss of income translates into lower state tax revenues, which affects the services the state can provide, including public schools.

(Where I teach, for example, the result of the lower wages statewide translated into cutting funding for every single honors class halfway through the year.)

[Armstead]

29. Hi Ulysses.

I only have crazy left wing talking points. Not really, but I fear Kerry would consider them crazy left wing talking points.

But...Republican Meme:

"Giving unrestricted powert to large corporations is good for the economy and will benefit you and everyone else."

Answer: Corporations are hurting the average person, by outsourcing jobs, downgrading jobs and otehrwise abusing their power. Big corporations also hurt small business with unfair competition. Democrats will support business, but will bring large corporations under control and open up the economy for smaller businesses to compete."


Okay, that's too left wing. I'll see if I can come up with anything better. But if Dem Strategist is looking, Goddamn it that's what Kerry ought to be talking about.

[ulysses]

30. hey, Armstead!

Of course, I'm more likely to take wing and fly before the Kerry campaign takes on corporate power between now and November, but you're absolutely correct. Corporate power also ties closely into Dem_Strat's media issue, as deutsey pointed out earlier today.

As to coming up with "anything better", screw that, man. They're asking, we need to be telling. :hi:

[Armstead]

35. kick

[ulysses]

36. bump.

:kick:

[ulysses]

37. anything else?

If not, I'll tidy it up and send it to Dem_Strat.

[Carni]

40. Yeah I would like to change this last line

In the thing I wrote to:

Americans and the world at large need a United States President that can be trusted with the decision to go to war based on fact and careful consideration, not forged documents and falsehoods.

(I edited the original post just now ACTUALLY NO I DIDN'T because the time to edit has apparently passed!)

[creeksneakers2]

38. Voucher plans

When I hear about school voucher systems, I point out to goppers that if we are going to have two school systems, one private and one public, we'll have to pay for two school systems. I tell them look at what schools cost now and imagine almost doubling it. Their taxes would go through the roof!

That is usually enough to make most goppers stop liking the voucher idea. The hard core guys say they are willing to pay for two systems for a time because they believe that in the end the private one would win through competition. I just tell these guys that they should be up front with everybody about what it would cost to have this contest.


( The goppers are never actually going to fund a massive voucher program. They are too cheap. )

[ulysses]

39. the problem with that

is that they'll be taking money from public schools to fund the vouchers. We wouldn't be paying for two systems, we'd just be screwing poor kids.

[ulysses]

43. anyone know if Dem_Strat has given a contact route?

I'll send a PM if not, but I gather (s)he has been inundated.

[ulysses]

45. anyone?

I'd like to send what we have organized, but I don't know where. No reply to my PM - D_S is busy, I'm sure.

[Lefty48197]

44. Taking money out of the public schools will destroy them

Taking money out of the general funds to give to private schools, for each of the students that already attend the private institutions, will defund the public schools. Only a stupid Republican would advocate that, or not see it as a consequence.

[ulysses]

46. I'm told that other things would be more helpful

than "issue-oriented" ideas.

Thanks anyway, y'all.