It's Official: Smear Boat Liars HAVE FAILED and Backfired!!

[Beetwasher]

The new Gallup poll that shows Kerry pulling ahead in OH should put this to rest once and for all. I'm sure that OH, as important a swing state as it is, was fully inundated w/ the smear (though I could be wrong about this, being that I don't live there, so I don't know for sure the ad was shown) and yet, Kerry's pulling ahead in a GALLUP poll fer cryin' out loud! If Gallup has these numbers, it's even better.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. ..

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. And the PA poll out today shows Kerry leading among veterans

and military families: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x12945.xml

[Cha]

5. Aha!

:evilgrin:

[BurtWorm]

18. Now that is super sweet!

I just rubbed some wingers' noses in that one. :toast:

[DoktorGreg]

3. Shhhhhhh Don't tell!

Here is hoping all the rest of Bush's campaign goes as well as the smear boat vets.

[Cha]

4. I've been waiting for this! I think you are right

to make that connection!

REally! With Senator John Fu*cking Warner coming out in favor of Kerry for crissake!

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. Warner?

Huh? Please enlighten me?

[Beetwasher]

7. Warner Came Out And Said Kerry Deserved His Medals!

Don't have a link handy, but it was definitely posted, so it shouldn't be too hard to find..

[Mixxster]

8. Here you go...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/222504p-191185c.html

WASHINGTON - The Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee said yesterday that John Kerry "deserved" his combat medals for heroism in Vietnam, which some vets have disputed.
Sen. John Warner, an ex-Navy secretary under President Richard Nixon, particularly defended the process by which Kerry won his highest honor, the Silver Star.

"I'd stand by the process that awarded that medal, and I think we best acknowledge that his heroism did gain that recognition," Warner (R-Va.) told CNN's "Late Edition."
Kerry was awarded a Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Hearts as a Navy Swift boat commander in the Mekong Delta in February and March 1969.

"We did extraordinary, careful checking on that type of medal , a very high one, when it goes through the secretary," Warner said. "I feel that he deserved it." Like Presidents Lyndon Johnson and Nixon - both Navy vets of World War II whose war service was later questioned - Kerry has had to face recent allegations in TV ads from others serving near him in Vietnam claiming that he lied about his combat heroism.

[alcuno]

9. Someone said today that the ad tested well with focus groups

of independents. Can't remember who.

[Beetwasher]

10. The "Yes Men" Told Them What They Wanted To Hear

Bush wanted the ads to work, so was told that the ads work...You don't tell the boy king what he doesn't want to hear...

[acmavm]

11. Obviously an idiot who packed the audience with even bigger ones.

.

[Cha]

16. I can just see a bunch of independents seeing that

ad and saying..ah..yeah..it definetly seems like Kerry might not deserve his medals..ah..yeah.


You know they wanted to run cause they thought it would go over real big.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. They are probably talking about the flawed Fabrizio poll

The poll sampled 1000 people, a more than adequate sample size, but to arrive at its conclusion about undecided voters, they had to rely on some VERY small subsamples. First, the poll looked only at those who were aware of the ad. That was about 58 percent, or a sample of about 580 people. That leaves a margin of error of about +/- 4 percent. Among this group, 19.4 said the ad made them more likely to vote for Kerry and 27.1 said less likely. This difference of 7.7 percentage points is just on the line for statistical significance.

Among undecided voters, the results are even more dicey. First, the poll doesn't say how many voters were undecided. Most polls have been showing very few undecided voters--10 to 15 percent. For sake of argument, let's say that in this sample, 15 percent of voters in a two-way race were undecided. That would give a subsample of only 150 undecided voters with a margin of error of about +/- 8 percent. Of these, only about 49 percent were aware of the add, leaving a sample of only 75 for a margin of error of +/- 11 percent. In this group, 29.9 percent said the ad made them less likely to vote for Kerry compared to only 11 percent who said it made them more likely. That difference of 18.9 points is outside of the margin of error.

In a 3-way race, only 38 percent of undecideds were aware of the add. If we again assume 150 undecided voters, that means only 57 were aware of the ad. That gives a margin of error of +/- 13 percent. In this group, 9.5 percent said the add madTe them more likely to vote for Kerry and 24.1 said less likely. That difference of 14.6 is also within the margin of error.

In summary, there's no statistically significant evidence that this ad has hurt Kerry.
http://polysigh.blogspot.com/2004/08/swift-boat-ad-poll.html

That doesn't even mention the question of what criteria this 'Republican polling and strategic consulting firm' used to determine who is a 'likely voter'.

[mrbassman03]

13. So what happened to the guy who took back his statement...

Last I heard, one of the central veterans in this smear campaign had retracted his statement about Kerry not deserving a medal, but then I also heard that he retracted that retraction... Has anyone heard more about this, or do we assume that the entire thing is full of crap?

[MallRat]

21. Later, he apparently retracted his retraction.

Too late. The retraction published in the Boston Globe took much of the wind out of the Swiftboat Liars' sails.

-MR

[lukasahero]

25. It wasn't this guy was it?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html

"But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him.""

Retraction/no retraction - who cares? This guy's a lying scum.

[Zynx]

14. Gallup polls are just plain inaccurate, though this matches some other rec

ent results from OH.

[Beetwasher]

17. Yeah, But They Are Innacurate in Favor Of Bush

So this is good news indeed!

[Zynx]

22. Generally. However, I think we are ahead in Ohio by about 3-4 points

right about now.

[charlie105]

24. Yes, they may be inaccurate but they were the only ones that

always showed Bush being ahead. This was the favorite poll for all the right-wing loudmouths - Hanntiy, Rush, O"Reilly etc. Wonder who they'd quote now.
So, this is actually super news.

[neuvocat]

15. I think I'll write to them and thank them.

[ellie]

19. Yes, I live in Ohio

and I have the seen the ad several times. I haven't seen the MoveOn ad yet though. I have seen a sweet ad by the Media Fund several times.

[Beetwasher]

20. KICK

n/t

[Ghetto_Boy]

23. Good... lets hope they keep it up

[JackDragna]

26. Nope. They haven't failed at all.

The swiftboaters have gotten untold amounts of media coverage. They turned a bunch of half-baked lies about John Kerry into something that distracted people from the Iraq war, the economy and so on. More importantly, however, it kept up the continuum of attack for the Republican party, which seeks to always make the character of the Democrat the issue. When this dies down, there will be something new to attack Kerry with to keep Kerry on his heels. The swiftboat stuff worked perfectly for the Republicans.

[Beetwasher]

27. Nonsense

It hasn't dented Kerry a bit and highlights the gutter in which Bush plays.

Kerry is firing back and once again highlights his honorable record while he gets to take the high road because Bush refuses to condemn the ad. It was a miserable failure. Kerry's STILL ahead and pulling farther ahead.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x635502

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x762076

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=761085&mesg_id=761085

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=761936&mesg_id=761936

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. Your post shows the fallacy of basing your arguments on fear

instead of facts.

Are there any facts that you based your post on?

[Philostopher]

28. I live in Ohio.

Mr. Nownow and I got into the habit, when we were in a sports bar or somewhere that had TVs on, of saying just loudly enough for those around us to hear, when the SBL ad came on, "Oh, look -- it's those liars who didn't serve with Kerry again! Wonder what garbage they've come up with this time? Same discredited bullshit from some guys who didn't actually serve with John Kerry? Oh, well -- pull this leg, guys! It plays Amazing Grace!" And then we'd turn our attention back to our meals or our trivia games or our beer, whatever.

People who were actually watching the ads would frown, blink at us warily, then go back to their meals too. But we figured at least a seed of question was sown. When they see it reported that the guy lied, they'll remember that. It may not be much, but I suspect it accomplished something, if only to encourage those people who heard us to pay attention when they saw an article about the fact the guys were either flat-out lying or misrepresenting themselves.

[SeekingTruth]

29. Kerry Needs to Keep The "denouncing" demand going..

Kerry needs to keep hammering at Bush to denounce this ad for as long as possible and hopefully as close to the RNC convention as possible....

But it shows you a weakness in the media - if Thurow says he doesn't deserve a Bronze Star if enemy fire was the determining factor, then why does he deserve one for aiding in the recovery of personnel of a swiftboat AFTER it hit a mine?