The New York Times Has A Gift For Us And Drudge Was Kind Enough To Tell Us

[DemocratSinceBirth]

First....


www.drudgereport.com


P.S. This collective hand wringing and gnashing of teeth is a morale killer....

Take the kick me sign off your ass... Stand up straight.... And be proud to be a Democrat...



on -edit -THE ARTICLE SHOULD BE CALLED BIRTH OF A SMEAR


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?hp

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Damn Right....

Lead, follow, or get out of the way....

[Liberal Veteran]

2. But..but..but...angst, fear, melodrama, and histrionics are so much fun!

LOL

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. We Didn't Expect Bushco To Play Nice....

Politics is the extension of war by other means....

[gristy]

3. I can't wait to see the article

Lots of discussion here (duplicate post): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x639274

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. TY-But It Was Falling To The Bottom Of The Page...

The NYT is the most powerful media organ in the world...



The story will drive the news for all the alphabet news stations and the cable news stations as well....


The Washington Times crossed the rubicon when they excerpted the Swift Boat Vermin for Bush book...


The Washington Times versus The New York Times...

That's like Pee Wee Herman against Lenox Lewis...

[Democat]

5. Collective hand wringing? You think Bill Clinton is a hand wringer? Please

Kerry's attempt to ignore the attacks on his record, not those who want him to fight, were the problem.

Bill Clinton himself said that Kerry needed to strike back quickly and strongly. Kerry did not do that. If you have a problem with the people here who want Kerry to fight then you have a problem with Bill Clinton's strategy too.

Kerry is finally getting around to standing up for himself, something that many people here have urged for weeks.

Some Democrats are tired of watching our side get our asses kicked by the right wing for the last few elections.

The true morale killers are those who want to ignore right wing attacks rather than fight back.

Look what not fighting back has gotten us.

The Republicans control every branch of government because of our party's pathetic refusal to fight against the Republicans.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Read the NYT Tomorrow...

Did you even bother to read the link?

Kerry's timing was exquisite....


I wouldn't be suprised if he knew it was coming....


Watch Kerry win this round...

[Kahuna]

46. And how do you know that his "timing" wasn't in response to the

hand wringing? According to the following snip, Kerry was getting it from all sides. So, he finally did something.

snip..
<Senior Democrats, including some inside the presidential campaign, have urged Kerry to respond forcefully to the criticism, fearing that if left unanswered, it could hamper his quest for the White House. >
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic

[senseandsensibility]

8. I agree

Since when is it hand-wringing to fight back? Sounds counter=intuitive to me.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. It's The "We're Doomed" Bullshit..... (nt)

[jjmalonejr]

10. Personally, I think letting Republicans work themselves up into a tizzy...

...over the Swifties is a GOOD thing. The longer they rant and rave, the deeper their humiliation will be.

Kerry is not "finally getting around to standing up for himself." He's letting this situation play out on his terms.

Timing is everything.

[bigtree]

14. Your whining about Kerry not fighting back is a falsehood.

Although Kerry chose to wait until today to open up the attack with a personal response, he began his attack with surrogates, positioned himself against the Moveon ad in order to be able to call on bush to repudiate the swiftliars, and followed with more surrogates. You completely disregard everything else the campaign did save the response today by Kerry. I wouldn't want a mindset like yours running the campaign. you seem to only be able to focus on the distortions and your campaign would spend all of the candidate's time responding to every drivel that passed the lips of the opposition.

This is the fifth line of attack TODAY from the Kerry camp.

There are the responses to the swiftliars
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...

then there were statements on:

-prescriptions- "Americans Could Have Discount Prescription Prices From Canada Tomorrow if George W. Bush Would Give the Word; Bush Should Stop Tap Dancing and Support the Bipartisan Legislation"

-Zell Miller Keynoting the GOP Convention

-Cheney and Bush Were For A Strong Presence on the Korean Peninsula Before They Were Against It, Says Kerry Campaign

-Kerry Outlines Health Care Plan to Bring Down Costs for Families, Strengthen the Economy, Create Jobs; Report Shows Skyrocketing Health Costs Have Led to Job Loss

But apparently you would counsel that we spend all of our time on swiftlies. Some campaign.

[Kahuna]

45. Right. I find it amazing that us handwringers are being chided for

hand wringing. When it's our very hand wringing that made Kerry go into attack mode. Want proof?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic
snip..

<<Senior Democrats, including some inside the presidential campaign, have urged Kerry to respond forcefully to the criticism, fearing that if left unanswered, it could hamper his quest for the White House. >>

So, even Kerry insiders felt that Kerry needed to address these issues sooner than later. So it appears that we hand wringers made Kerry get off his ass and do something.

[jonnyblitz]

54. good post

and when they DO attack its their own side (MOVEON.ORG).

[blondeatlast]

9. UP NOW: Friendly Fire: The Birth of an Anti-Kerry Ad

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?hp

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I Began To Read It... It's Devestating...

I'm going to link it as a favorite and read the entire thing in the morning...

[Sparkly]

13. This looks like the definitive smackdown...

Still reading...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. It's A Got Damn Magnum Opus (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. The Times Conceded The Swift Boat Vermin A Small Point About Cambodia

This gives the piece more cred....

[59millionmorons]

33. This part is very interesting

Both Mr. Hoffmann and Mr. Lonsdale had publicly lauded Mr. Kerry in the past. But the book, Mr. Brinkley's "Tour of Duty," while it burnished Mr. Kerry's reputation, portrayed the two men as reckless leaders whose military approach had led to the deaths of countless sailors and innocent civilians. Several Swift boat veterans compared Mr. Hoffmann to the bloodthirsty colonel in the film "Apocalypse Now" - the one who loves the smell of Napalm in the morning.

[gristy]

34. typo!!!!!!!!

Shortly after leaving the Navy in 1978, he was been issued a letter of censure for exercising undue influence on cases in the military justice system.

[Beetwasher]

12. The NYT Piece Is DEVASTATING

The whole thing connects to Rove and Bush.

It's five pages of exquisite detail and connections. Simply devastating. The source of the smear goes directly to Rove/Bush.

[blondeatlast]

15. Damn if it ain't Kenneth Starr, too... nt

[Democat]

22. Ken Starr is involved with the people backing Swift Boat Liars!

He was also giving private tours of the White House to Bush backers!

Ken Starr should be in jail.

What the fuck is going on in Washington DC these days?

Asked if it was possible that she had worked with other administration officials, Ms. Spaeth said, "The answer is 'no,' unless you refresh my memory.''

[Bluebear]

17. All the strings are tied together. Swiftboat vets=Rove=Bush

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Stratege(r)y-NT

[59millionmorons]

19. The question is

Was Kerry tipped off about this article ahead of time? This would explain the timing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. I Doubt He Was Tipped Off But The Campaign Was Probably Asked To Verify

Some Facts Thereby Inadvertantly Tipping Them Off

[blondeatlast]

23. Makes sense. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I Have To Read The Whole Thing When I'm Not So Tired....

I don't know about the Cambodia brouhaha....

If I'm on a boat in the Atlantic I don't know when I left Florida waters for Georgia....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Rove Should Be Asked To Resign...

that effete tub of man goo never will but it's more heat

[mzmolly]

50. Let's hope this sleeping public wakes the F up in the wake of this

scandal. I can't help but think the Kerry camp uncovered much of this and provided it to the media?!

Go Kerry! :toast: to you good sir!

[bigtree]

25. What is with the unresponded smear at the end of the story?

"He called us rapers and killers"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Didn't Read The Whole Thing

but maybe the online version is different....


It's odd to end a story on an unanswered question...


Or the inference is to use a colloquialism the Swift Boat Vermin made all this shit up cuz they didn't like Kerry's anti-war position when he came home...

[Leilani]

37. I think that is the point

because they hate Kerry for post war protests.

And that is all they have...the rest is smear.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. All The Elements Of A Crime....

Means, motive, and opportunity



Means= Big Puke Donors


Motive=Hatred of Kerry's anti-war activities


Opportunity - Hate radio and right wing media outlets.....


Hate radio and right wing media outlets versus the New York Times...

Game ... Set... Match....

[Uzybone]

28. Here is a link to the story

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?hp

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. It's The Greatest Story Ever Told

-:)

[Leilani]

29. I just read the entire article...

& it is devastating.

It traces all the money back to the gang who smeared McCain, linked to Rove, & linked to Bush Sr. Library trustee.

Unbelievable!

Kudos to the Times! It does not make up for rotten Iraq WMD stories, but if they keep this up, they can win me over again.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Remember The "Rats" Story In 00

I hope this is a reprise squared.....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Follow The Money (nt)

[Leilani]

38. Exactly!!!

That is how they broke open the Watergate story.

And I think the Bush people make Nixon seem like a nice guy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Bush is 100% Worse Than Nixon

at least with Nixon we didn't get the faux sanctimoniousness and feigned religiosity...

[Sparkly]

35. Excellent -- pulls it back to what it's really about

It's about their contention that Kerry's 1971 testimony was responsible for the anti-military sentiments they confronted upon their return from Vietnam.

THAT is what this is all about. The rest are just recent fabrications.

Good for the NY Times!!!

[blondeatlast]

What didn't the pResident know, and when DIDN'T he know it?

Sounds so familiar; when have I heard that before???

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Leilani]

40. Keep this story Kicked!!!

This will be THE story tomorrow...

Kick this to the top!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. I'll Bookmark It.... I'm Going To Bed.... Good Night

-:)

[Sparkly]

42. Hey Washington Post -- Your Turn Again!!

C'mon, dig something up that beats this, and let's keep it going! :)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. To Paraphrase Lee Atwater.....

We need to strip the bark off George Bush and make John O'Neil his running mate.....


In 88 Lee Atwater said "we need to strip the bark off Michael Dukakis and make Willie Horton his running mate."

[DrFunkenstein]

47. Is That - Gulp - Investigative Journalism?

I had almost forgotten what it looked like...

[vickie]

48. Has anyone ventured over to freeperland to see how they're

responding to the NYT story? I admit, this close to bedtime, I don't have the stomach for it.

This is a real nausea-inducing situation. Nonetheless, I do believe JK will hang tough (he has to, failure is not an option) and make these sorry losers wish they had never returned from the jungles of Vietnam.

Vickie Carter
Redondo Beach, CA

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. I Got My Paper-The Story's Right Above The Fold.... (nt)

[Democat]

52. Maybe they will do what the Swift Liars do, change their stories again

Each time facts come out, the Swift Boat Liars just change their story to try to keep up with the facts. Why should other right wingers be any different? :)

[Killarney]

51. Huge freaking kick!

:)

[DeepModem Mom]

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