Dem Strategist: I am leaving DU

[Dem_Strategist]

Thanks to those of you who have made great suggestions. However, this process doesn't seem to be working.

Thanks all for your hard work.

And a special thanks to William Pitt and Skinner.

I will continue to monitor this site carefully.


EDITED TO ADD: The 'process' is the open exchange of information that benefits both of us but that doesn't reveal any sensitive info. This is NOT about me being personally insulted, but about the uselessness of threads that have too much negativity. Last thing I want is to cause infighting that wouldn't have happened without my presence.

[cybildisobedience]

1. what's this all about?

Did I miss something? I knew Dem Strategist posted here and encouraged feedback, but I'm not sure what this is about.
Can anyone fill me in?

[Ghetto_Boy]

2. Hope you enjoyed the cup of coffee

[merh]

3. I'm sorry that we haven't been helpful.

Please note that you have a star so you utilize the search function and you can review posts to your posts by accessing the "my posts" function on the tool bar. That should make your monitoring and review easier.

Please let us know if we can help. It is disappointing that your use of DU is "not working".

[Dem_Strategist]

5. What is not working

is that my threads seem to invite angry responses which makes the discussion hard to follow.

Many people have been incredibly helpful, and as I said, I will continue to read the site.

[madfloridian]

12. It is not our fault that our country went into an illegal war.

Speaking out on the war is not an angry response. I think you need to stop putting down people who care deeply about our country.

[WilliamPitt]

16. Anger or solutions

Hm. What's the best option?

I suppose anger feels better...

[madfloridian]

39. Not anger, Will. Facing up to the truth of what we have done.

The real reality. I am not angry in the sense you mean. It is deep emotional sadness.

[The Magistrate]

69. Then Get Over It, Ma'am

"Deep emotional sadness" is a damned poor counsel for any action, particularly political action.

The questions all boil down to this one: do you want the Democratic Party candidate for President to win this election, or do you prefer to use this election as a vehicle for expression of your emotional state?

"Revolution is not a tea party."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[truthspeaker]

78. They are not mutually exclusive. He can win by telling truth about Iraq

[The Magistrate]

96. It Is Seldom The Case, Sir

That sound strategic calculation and action overlaps with emotional gratification.

As to your particular statement, Sir, answering it requires the question, whose truth?

If you feel, for instance, that denouncing the invasion of Iraq as an exercise in international criminality will produce a victory at the polls, you are quite mistaken, and mistaken even if that were viewed as the truth of the matter. Enough people will disagree, and reject such a position, to ensure the triumph of the enemy at the polls.

If you feel that feeding the growing popular mood that the thing is a quagmire, going poorly, and fostering the understanding that the thing was sold to the people through lies, is indicated now, then you may well be correct. But indirect methods toward this, and action only after thorough preparation of the ground, are the best means for achieving this. Every action taken by one party to a conflict opens opportunity for riposte by the other party; these things are not one-sided, and do not remain still.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[madfloridian]

112. I gather you mean I should say Iraq is doing fine?

Ok. I think that is what you said. Shame on you, and I am a Maam.

[The Magistrate]

117. The Reply, Ma'am

Was to a Mr. T. Speaker, who engaged my reply to you.

In many instances, people have little interest in what persons actually say, but simply use the occasson of a pause in their speech to tail off on what they had already in mind, and this would seem to be one of those cases.

Or do you imagine the invasion of Iraq has enjoyed my support at any stage of its progress?

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Julien Sorel]

119. No, that is not what he said.

I believe you claim to be, or to have been at one point, a teacher. One can only hope your students learned better reading comprehension than you frequently display on this board. You have an amazing habit of injecting things into posts that were never there.

[The Magistrate]

123. Thank You, Mr. Bunter

That persons who have great differences between them on other, and much more imflammatory matters, can manage an agreement on strategic questions in this election, ought to illustrate for all that the thing is, at least, possible, for people who can keep their eyes on the prize....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[madfloridian]

129. What is more inflammatory than the Iraq War?

.

[madfloridian]

126. Are you implying I did not teach comprehension well?

Oh, I comprehend very well, I catch implications and nuance very quickly. Actually that was a lightly veiled insult. Shame on you.

[Julien Sorel]

132. Waaaaaaaaa!

Why don't you start one of your passive aggressive little threads now, saying something along the lines of, "Why cants you be nice to us? We wants to be nices to you. All we wantses to do is twist your postses around, and you go and be mean to us! Mean, pro-war hobbitses!"

[madfloridian]

86. So...you are saying if we all sound happy about Iraq we will win?

Okey dokey, and you go get those bush bastards. I am after the ones in our party who are doing the same thing the bush bastards are doing.

[The Magistrate]

105. In Other Words, Ma'am

You feel the way to win an election is to pitch a faction fight during its course, rather than to close ranks behind the standard and engage the enemy. It is pretty clear from history which force has a better chance at victory, one which acts with unity, and one which squabbles vigorously within itself. A closed fist strikes a better blow than spread and seperate fingers.

"There will be a holiday in our street soon!"

"LET'S GO GET TJOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[goju]

128. Might I interject

"A closed fist strikes a better blow than spread and seperate fingers."

That is not always the case. Im not being a smart ass here, and I hope this is relevant but, depending on the target an open fist allows greater versatility. Example, a slap often hurts worse and is more "stunning" than a punch, in that the blow is spread across a wider target. I only mention this because of the "separation" factor you brought up. Separate, but equally damning attacks, can be more effective than one consolidated, narrowly focused attack.

The idea of having the truly "anti war" faction on OUR side (that includes me), even though our candidate is not coming out completely against the war at this point, is not a bad thing. As long as those of us who are truly "anti war" are not alienated from the party, we can and will be a voting block, despite our differences.

[The Magistrate]

139. Having Been Both Punched And Slapped In Adult Earnest Myself, Sir

Let me assure you the latter is merely invigorating in a fight, while the former has real effect. Nothing is more foolish than to cause a foe some pain without doing any real damage.

It is true that, on a larger scale, a number of seperate attacks may be a superior mode of operation, but these must be well co-ordinated, and not each competeing with the other, or driving off individually on different tangents.

The problem here is that the purists among the anti-war factions seem unwilling in many instances to coordinate in the manner you suggest, which we are in agreement would be ideal, and most useful. They will not march with any other banner but their own, and will attack any who do not raise their banner.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Cheswick2.0]

94. revolution is also not a lot of artificial double talk

Just so you know. Oh, and it isn't about enabling the status quo either or being a mindless "yes man".

Kerry can either stand up and win or he can't.

[The Magistrate]

110. Your Efforts Towards My Education About Such Matters, Sir

Are always appreciated....

"There is not a parallel of latitude but thinks it would be the Equator if it had got its rights."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Skidmore]

44. Will, I love ya dearly and respect your opinion,

but some of the anger and frustration comes from a good number of years of this party not taking the rank and file seriously. It comes from frustration with listening to talking heads present themselves as speaking for those of us when we don't agree with them. I'm tired of screaming at my TV & radio. It comes from years of frustration at watching the party being savaged and maligned and our leaders slink away with their tails between their legs rather than confront the lies and innuendos. It comes from watching an election being stolen with hardly a peep from the leadership and then having an illegitimate government systematically deconstruct and destroy our country and the world. It comes from watching fathers, brothers, and sons go to a war based on a lie and having them come home in boxes, maimed, or not being allow to end their service because of a backdoor draft.

I don't want the Democratic Party to be a country club clique. I want to feel that it includes me, my community, and all generations and races in the dialogue. Is that too much to request from people in leadership roles within the party. I'm sorry if I am angry today, but we have too much at stake in November. We aren't just gambling with the security and integrity of our nation, but we are gambling with the future of mankind as well. It wouldn't hurt for one of our leaders to stand up and tell us that the anger we feel is a legitimate feeling based on legitimate shared concerns.

[Joanne98]

80. Don't forget that disgraceful scene

in Michael Moore's movie. Al Gore and the black congress begging for one senator to "stand up". i quit posting on Dem Strategist's threads because he was telling me things i already knew. It' the media. DUH. The media gets to run over us because our leaders won't stand up and fight back. This experience with Dem Stategist (and i have read the threads) just tells me that our leaders still aren't in touch with the base. We just have to keep doing what we've been doing for ourselves. I find it surprising DS is leaving so quickly. The threads weren't that angry. I guess we're getting treated like moveon (the crazy aunt in the attic). I love it when I see Dems groveling on Faux News renouncing moveon for calling Bush Hitler, which they never did.
DS should stay, to learn what we have to teach him. How to stand up and fight back. The Left left wing is the only ones making any headway. Thank God for us......

[Cheswick2.0]

88. Bravo, you are right DS should stay and learn from us

We are the ones who have been writing and calling the media for years.
The TRUTH is that the candidate and his highly paid staff need to step up too.

[LosinIt]

82. Thanks, Skidmore.

You have put into words the thoughts I have been unable to formulate into a coherent paragraph. I am angry, a slow, boiling anger that lives just below the surface. I go through the day interacting with people who go about their business as if everything were normal, who speak about the troops making us safer here in the good old US of A.

NOTHING has been normal since that fateful day in December 2000. We are facing a whole new level of danger than we were before the Democratic Party and its leaders rolled over and accepted this illegal attack and occupation of a defenseless country.

[Cheswick2.0]

Why do you so often find it necessary to answer MF's posts to DS?

He's a big boy, he can answer for himself.

[Cocoa]

13. maybe there's a reason for that

maybe instead of leaving, you could figure out why you were getting that response, and adjust accordingly.

Or you could just leave. :shrug:

[merh]

21. Please do (monitor & review) - we are good folks and very well intentioned

it is just that this election is so important and has us all so crazy (at times).

You know liberals and dems - we don't march in lock step and are very opinionated individuals.

Good luck to you - we are here when & if you need. Again, the use of the search feature may come in handy. There are some brilliant folks posting here and often DU provides the comic relief that we need. (There are some folks who should write comedy, fer sure!)

My best and all the positive vibes possible to you and all those on the campaign. :hi:

:yourock:

(sorry, I had to edit because my typing is terrible!)

[hlthe2b]

38. I'm saddened by that.... A suggestion to you, Dem_Strategist.

Dems certainly do adopt the circled firing squad approach in many areas, but among the diversity of opinions and reactions on this board is an opportunity to harness some incredible (frustration-powered)energy, as well as insight into opinion--way outside the beltway.

May I make a suggestion, Dem_Strategist? I think most of us are craving some insight into the strategies and thought processes of both the Kerry-Edwards campaign and the DNC, but for obvious reasons you can't post details on a very public forum as DU. Yet, this information not only reassures us, but helps to focus our efforts here, so that we are supporting your efforts and not merely criticizing blindly or inadvertently working against them. Perhaps you could regularly communicate with a prominent DU leader/member, such as Skinner or Will Pitt and ask that they communicate this information to us.

I suspect you are sufficiently experienced and accustomed to the wide diversity of DEM opinion, so that you recognize frustration and don't internalize it. I certainly can't imagine your taking even the most antagonistic comments posted on DU "personally." I certainly hope not.... Please consider my suggestion, though. Thanks for your efforts!

[librechik]

130. you don't spend too much time on message boards, do you?

It's like the ocean--it's big, uncontrollable, and splashes water on your nice new clothes. It can be overwhelming and take you far in its currents. Occasionally it spits up a big ugly slimy piece of garbage.

Nevertheless, if you want to be there, you have to stay afloat. If you let the garbage offend you into paralysis, you will sink.

BTW, FYI, FWIW, your requests for assistance were so vague and cranky that it doesn't surprise me that you didn't get useful responses from the many volunteers here who tried in good faith to join your project. Try to be a little more specific next time you ask for help.

Another idea: Maybe join in the community, get acquainted,get friendly, let people know your positions on the issues, & learn to respect your input before you attempt to use their power for your own purposes. Frankly it was a little off-putting to be told how fortunate we were to be chosen to participate in your grand experiment, and how "strategists" such as yourself live in a different world from the general hoi polloi. That sort of attitude is just not our style here. Are you DLC by any chance?

Thanks anyway, and Good luck!

:hi:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. With only 104 posts, it must not have been much of a process...

...in fact, I doubt seriously if anyone knew you were here except for Will and Skinner.

[molly]

I did

[merh]

28. I did!

eom

[unfrigginreal]

34. I did

and the CNN blitz that many just participated in probably would have never occurred had h/she not been here. They'll be missed and it's our loss.

[Norquist Nemesis]

40. I did

[Sparkly]

42. I did

And I wish you'd reconsider, Dem Strategist.

[Cha]

100. I did, too...and have been checking it out to see if

there was anything I could do.

I'd say don't go, also. There's work to be done and some of us would like and need a "strategist".

[bigtree]

56. I did

[NV1962]

59. I did, too

And yes, some people read more than their participation in topics suggests.

[democratreformed]

75. one more... me too

Although I haven't contributed anything to any of DemStrategist's posts (til now), I knew she (he?) was here. And, I have read most of the posts.

[JI7]

6. i can understand why you are leaving

if i worked for the campaign i wouldn't have tried what you did at all. i would probably check du and other websites for suggestions at times. but you mostly get people saying why didn't you do this or that. and too many reactionary types who seem to think the campaign is not aware of certain polls and other things.

[incapsulated]

10. Our mystery guest doesn't "work for the campaign"

They said so themselves.

I'm not sure what all this was about, honestly.

[wndycty]

20. I agree JI7

There is so much second guessing going on. I think a lot of the criticism is valid however we have to trust the the Kerry Camp/DNC more. I applaud him/her for venturing over here.

[Skidmore]

7. What process? I thought you wanted

feedback. Are you interested in what we have to say or not? Or are we not giving you the feedback you want? If you want dialogue, then lets have it. If this has been an academic exercise, then be honest about it.

I was heartened that someone was taking the time to listen to and tap the grassroots. It appears that my hopes and trust have misplaced. Before you leave us, it would be nice if you would explain what or how this conversation is not working.

[wildmanj]

8. leaving

would be like me leaving the church because one sinner showed up----as they say when the going gets tough the touch get going----chin up and wishing you a nice day and success in all your endeavors

[bigtree]

9. Kinda reminds me of the dozens of exits that I have witnessed here

This is still a valuable process and I wouldn't be so definite about leaving. Why not continue to spot post? Your opinion is valuable and could make a great difference. How about, see ya later instead of goodbye. What have you got to lose?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Think Some People Are Turned Off By The Pessimissm...

The "bug in the ear" syndrome......


I started by believing that JFK would weather this Swift Boat brouhaha and still believe he will weather it and ultimately benefit from it but it's difficult when you have one thousand DUers standing on the head of a pin telling you otherwise...

[Cheswick2.0]

81. JFK is dead

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. forget it

[WilliamPitt]

11. Stay in touch

[e-mail]

Another shining DU moment. If you're leaving because of the shithead brigades here, the best thing you can do is ignore them. Some people are contrary because they don't have anything better to do.

Yeah, I fucking said it.

[Nightjock]

49. I could not have put it any better Mr Pitt

Matbe privately you could tell him or her that the majority of people here want to help in any way we can.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jaybird]

85. you are right will...

the negativity in this place reeks.....dem_strategist was just trying to steer us in the right direction but there are alot of closed minds at DU.

lets all work together......we gotta get this mother fucker out of the white house and it can't be done without EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US working together.

[mzmolly]

93. And others are contrary because they want Kerry to lose.

:(

[realFedUp]

103. What an insult

Let's divide us some more.....

[mzmolly]

137. I'm not trying to divide anyone, there are Freepers and Nader followers

here who'd like to see Kerry lose, are there not?

To suggest that everyone who posts here has the same ultimate goal = Bush out of the White House is naive. :hi:

99. % of DU-ers are exceptional people. But the 1% who aren't can take their toll sometimes?

[Egnever]

101. And some just happen to disagree

but its more fun to just put people down isn't it Will?

Makes you feel all warm and superior inside.

Yeah, I fucking said it!

[WilliamPitt]

107. "its more fun to just put people down"

was the motivation for many in this mess. My pointing it out isn't.

[Armstead]

108. That's Bullshit Will

I immensely admire your energy and dedication and courage. I also used to admire your even handedness.

But I don't admire your tendency at times to place yourself above others who think differently or do things differently than you. (Which is a moving target, because you change your own stance at times.)

Many in the "shithead brigades" are simply using the same right to express an opinion. And sometimes those opinions are angry, negative and pesimistic. Or critical of Kerry. or critical of the Democrats at the times the leaders seem to be talking another walk down ther same old path.

And many are angry after have been kept in the wilderness for years, being told that our opinions don't matter because we are "too far left" or some other such nonsense.

And rather than having nothing else to do, many have been toiling in the vineyards of change for years. It may not be according to the political template, but change operates on many levels.

[deutsey]

14. That's the fighting spirit.

:eyes:

[molly]

15. I wish you would not leave

:toast: sometimes it is difficult to ignore negativity and immaturity and personal attacks. :mad: Please take a break and come back. :kick:

[AirAmFan]

17. Chances are you'll be back, sooner or later. This is a unique outlet

for a wide range of generally progressive opinions about many different things. Maybe you'll take a lower profile, though. If you "monitor", you won't be able to resist posting for very long.

It must have been frustrating to be hamstrung by FEC rules on co-ordinating with non-official campaign surrogates.

Anyway, thanks for this visit. We've learned a lot from you.

[senseandsensibility]

18. Don't let the door hit you...

Sorry, I am angry this morning. I wish we could have convinced you to stay and FIGHT.

[Joanne98]

90. LOL good one

this thread has really pissed me off. he's not going to stay and fight. he's a dem. his feelings are hurt. isn't this just exactly what the problem is. they learned nothing from Howard Dean.......

[lukasahero]

134. "FIGHT" who?

Why? Shouldn't we be fighting shrub and his regime rather than each other all the time? It's one thing to voice opinions, and this is a great place to do so but I see a lot of "I think" and "I feel" and "I" frickin' "I", "I", "I" around here. Isn't it possible that "others" might be more important than one's own personal pet peeves this time around?

(OK, so that's pretty rude of me to say, so flame away.)

[Guaranteed]

19. I don't think that's a good idea.

This place takes some getting used to, and it's going to have to adjust to you, too. But, I'm telling you, these folks are the pulse of the real Democratic Party, and they have a helluva lot of good ideas. I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you left.

[JI7]

22. can you tell us who you are before you leave ?

55. Maybe he/she is leaving to avoid doing that

:)

and never had any intention of revealing that information in the first place.

Just a thought.

[cheezus]

23. let's see... ask DUers a question and then tell them they don't know...

enough to answer. yeah, that really seems like a process that would work.

[charlie105]

25. And what exactly is the process that you speak of?

The very least that you could have done is leave quietly or state that you had other demands on your time and energy. You do realize that you'll be leaving a lot of folks demoralized by this action of yours.
As long as you are satisfied that you contributed more than you take out, here's wishing you luck and happiness in your future endeavors.

[CatWoman]

26. DS

you know, after reading some of the dumb, smart ass, bullshit responses on this thread, I don't blame you one bit.

[The Magistrate]

76. Indeed, Ma'am

This person's advice and comments were both very sound.

Of course, trying to educate people here is an exercise in cat-herding....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Bandit]

27. Well I hope Kerry doesn't display this attitude.

I rarely followed any of your posts because they didn't really seem very helpful. They may have been meant to be but mostly just antaganized people. If this is an example of the Democrats strategy we are in very serious trouble.

[LimpingLib]

29. Even on a mainstream Democratic run site ......

...the dichotomy between the general registered Democrat and the leadership is just too striking.

This site isnt left wing by any stretch but the fact is that there is a brewing rebellion within the party and no pollster or insider will have an easy time even on the most friendly of turf when the discussion involves the "little people" .

Just my observation.

[silverlib]

30. I'll miss you...

I hope you at least pop in and post every once in a while. You are a wealth of knowledge. I've noticed that some on this board are more than willing to point out their opinion of every poster's shortcomings. I think you did really well in expressing yourself and giving us an insight into your work and the process of a strategist.

I honestly feel you will continue to get help from certain very hard working members and that your time here was not wasted.

I wish you the best and really hope you decide to post again and let us have some more insight.

[Blue-Jay]

31. What process?!?

The process of asking the peanut gallery open-ended questions, and replying cryptically? That process?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

32. Fair enough. I wish people would just deal with a subject at face value.

Most of the Dem_Strategist threads got derailed because people liked to use Dem_Strategist as their personal whipping boy, rather than just contribute to the debate. In the end, it's irrelevant who D_S was, what is relevant is the fight.
It's easy to get angry, but it's got to be channelled.
Sorry to see you go, Dem_Strategist.
You were pretty cryptic, mind. That does tend to set people on edge.

[DrFunkenstein]

60. I echo every sentiment

I've seen people get personal with me (at least back in the day), but I'm just some schmuck with google. It's sad how, for all the talk about wanting to be part of the process, people really just care about petty power shit instead of working together and making some of the changes we actually want done.

That's a problem I feel alot of people here have with Kerry. They'd rather do the "righteous indignation" thing than elect someone who can start to bring back some dignity and righteousness.

Sorry to see you go, but I agree that you may have unintentionally invited some of the knuckleheads to swarm with the cryptic messages.

[bambo53]

33. Goodbye again, don't wait a year to return

And do stop back under your real name soon. In the meantime I'm sure we'll be hearing from you explaining how you have the inside track and we are wrong to question the powers that be,,, and you.

Hope the job search pans out for you

[michigandem2]

35. I am sorry you feel that way

i know you got beat up....people are frustrated and DESPERATELY want to win...

Hang in there!

[DU GrovelBot]

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[robcon]

36. I only caught a couple of threads by Dem Strategist...

but I got a clear perception that he wanted to give more opinions/plans than he wanted to get. That's ok, and if that's what he wanted, I understand why he left.

DU is not some brigade of soldiers waiting for orders. It's lively, argumentative and intellectually challenging... and apparently that's not what he wanted.

[Walt Starr]

37. I am very sickened with DU now

Sorry to see you go. My hopes for this election cycle are now dashed.

If DUers can't see the forest for all the damn trees, we are doomed.

[madfloridian]

41. Do I sicken you. I questioned our facing up to Iraq.

Is that sickening? I am voting for Kerry, but I will not hush about the war.

[bigtree]

48. MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[madfloridian]

114. ME and thousands of dead Iraqis and our dead soldiers.

I would have one time been insulted. I am beyond that now.

[KittyWampus]

73. Funny How People With Thin Skin And Chips On Their Shoulders

think certain posts pertain to THEM.

It says a lot about them.

[madfloridian]

87. They do. Now please don't call me stupid as well as thin-skinned.

Of course these posts pertain to those of us who are questioning the decision to go to war. Of course they pertain to us. Who else the hell do you THINK they pertain to.

[KittyWampus]

104. Thank You For Demonstrating My Point

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

118. ME and dead military and the dead Iraqis.

.

[madfloridian]

115. Funny how people who once opposed the war are after me instead.

Isn't that funny? It is all my fault now if Kerry gets criticized because I speak still for the dead Iraqis and our dead military....while others tell me to hush.

[The Magistrate]

131. Perhaps, Ma'am

That should suggest a course of reflection and self-examination on your part....

Your phrase, for instance, is a telling one: "...people who once opposed the war...." Do you imagine, Ma'am, that anyone who now criticizes purist petulance has become a supporter of the war in Iraq? The fact is that the course you urge would, if adopted by a candidate in a national election, ensure that candidate's defeat, and thus, in this instance, ensure that the persons who conceived, planned, and executed the war on Iraq would be maintained in office. Why you seemigly conbsider this a desireable ourcome to the current election is beyond me....

"Everybody wants to go to heaven; nobody wants to die."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Walt Starr]

138. Thank you, Sir

This thread is making me even more despondent but I am happy to see some who understand.

[bluedog]

43. why would that

stop your hopes?............that makes no sense what so ever.....I questioned DS about his connection to the KE campaign..he/she does not work directly with them.....He/she is alot like us.we are strategists also..we write.we call talk in.we work hard for this campaign.....
He/she offered strategies that are now too late to install..some told DS that.....so if that hurts his/her feelings...so be it

[hlthe2b]

45. Don't give into those thoughts, Walt.... We're all fighting them, but

as stomach wrenching as this rollercoaster ride is getting to be, we have to ride it to its end.

[LimpingLib]

46. I dont think your attacks on the posters are fair.

People bent over backwards to be polite and most stayed away from this insider. People arent even allowed to bash Kerry (thats a good thing IMO , not disagreeing)on this site.

The fact is that the insiders are out of touch.

Its nobodys fault. Just 2 totally opposing sides. The elite in our party are our worst enemy.It shows even on the most mainstream Democratic site (and one of the finest) on the web.

Though I have no problems,the fact is that this is a mainstream site (not left wing as many try to claim when smearing us as out of touch , many times by hippocritical moderate posters)and clearly election seasons are the most dangerous time for a progressive to post here when having a blunt moment.

The fact is that with all that , this was the result.An elite party member had a rough go of it even on the most friendly of ground.

[GumboYaYa]

47. It's just an internet message board....

If DU sickens you sign-off the computer and talk to real people. People are waking up to the fact that Bush needs to be removed from office and it is palpable when you talk to real people. Don't let yourself get caught up in an internet board and think that is reality. IMO that is the heart of yours and Dem_Strategists' frustration.

Ultimately everyone here is pulling for the Dems and against GWB, just because some diehards may disagree on strategies or tactics, it does not make them a "shithead brigade" or the reason the Dems will lose. It just is different opinions. If you can't deal with different opinions you should not participate in a forum like this at all.

[Democat]

57. You are sickened by DU because everyone doesn't agree?

You're a Democrat, you should be used to it. :)

[sleepystudent]

58. Do you honestly believe...

that this site is in any way mainstream? Or is any decent gauge(sic?) of how the election is going to go? I don't know, I just think that lamenting that DUers "can't see the forest for the trees" means nothing-it could just mean some people need to log off and get some fresh air. I think some people here put too much stock in what is said here and take everything too seriously, like people here are the final authority on the political process. I am more likely to believe that the people actually working on the campaign and working the streets in the real world have a better grasp of what is going on than here and they seem optimistic that at least the Pres race is looking good. It's an echo chamber in here and bad feeling gets amplified. Sometimes I think this site should just shut off one day a week to force people off.

[Walt Starr]

70. Is FR mainstream?

No, but it was used to get the Smear Boat Liars bullshit into the mainstream.

DU is fucking worthless to allow FR to outdo us in activism

I am in complete despair and no longer see any hope for us or our nation.

[MallRat]

50. Sorry. I fear it's another case of Democrats acting like Democrats.

I think it's inherent in our nature to question just about everything and everyone- even those who have the best and purest of intentions. That's what made the Boston convention so unprecedented- Democrats put forward a sense of unity rarely ever seen in a Presidential election year.

The very "big-tent" nature of the Democratic Party leads to squabbling and sniping. It always has. Still, I'd prefer that to the Borg-like mindlessness of the opposition.

Please don't go, Dem Strategist. I don't know whether another mechanism might be more effective (i.e., how about a specific Dem Strategist forum, more tightly moderated, a little less free-wheeling)?

There's a lot of good people here. With all our rough edges, we are a resource waiting to be tapped. Cut through the chicken-little panicking, and you have an active, politically-aware, highly-motivated, highly-intelligent collective at your disposal.

-MR

on edit: speling erors ficksed.

[kentuck]

51. Too bad.

We were just getting to know you. But I think we are all guilty of permitting you to get off on the wrong foot. I hope we all learn from the experience.

[tandot]

52. Thank you for your input, Dem Strategist

Many DUers were thankful for your information and tips. Some DUers disagreed, which is just proof of the diversity of opinions here on DU.

I personally think that Democrats should address issues like the SwiftVet ads immediately and hit back hard. I don't think it is necessary that Kerry fights back in person every time. I think it would be more effective if the Democratic Party would show more unity and would go on the offensive as soon as negative issues come up.

And please, make sure that Democrats interviewed on TV or radio are effective and well-prepared. It is heart breaking to see that some of the people speaking for Democrats and Kerry on National TV are not able to answer question promptly and adequately or to defend Kerry's record.

Best wishes for your future. :thumbsup:

[geek tragedy]

53. Really unfortunate.

Some people think that using DU for personal anger therapy is more important than it being a constructive tool against Bush.

Which is fine. But then they should stay out of strategy/activism threads. Yelling "Bush lied about the war! He stole the election! I hate Bush and Freepers!" feels good, but it doesn't help defeat the enemy.

[WyLoochka]

54. This is a rotten turn of events

I ask that you reconsider this decision, DS. It's understandable that you may be discouraged, in light of some of the extremely rude responses, but I think you may not have given enough time to this particular effort to engage and assist.

I was looking forward to your participation here over the next two and a half months.

[blondeatlast]

61. Please don't. There's this handy little feature called "ignore."

I'm sick of hearing the same people whine that their brilliant ideas aren't being used.

I've had disagreements with you, too, but I give you credit for knowing politics better than I do, so I don't take it personally.

This is SOP in GD and GD2K4.

I have actually DONE a few of the things you've talked about. I have this demented idea it made a difference somehow.

Besides, I thought you came from one of us; now you've shot my theory clear to hell! :evilgrin:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. It's the interenet...people feel comfortable being rude

My suggestion is this...if there is a specific item on which you request input or support...ask for it..and as the smarmy comments arise, put those people on ignore...people are asses everywhere in life...being in the beltway, I guess you're just used to people being assholes with a bit more decorum.

[ibegurpard]

63. If you didn't expect a certain amount of anger

then its a good indication of how completely out of touch some of you people are. Frustration and anger with the party has been SEETHING for years.
Hope you'll continue to monitor the site, as you said, because useful information can be gleaned here.

[goodhue]

64. What process?

It was never clear to me what you wanted or what the end result was supposed to be. Consequently, I avoided posting in your threads. You can't seriously be surprised to encounter dissent over Iraq. Obviously the media is the enemy, but sending mixed messages only helps them garble the truth. Be the media and speak the truth!

:toast:

[snippy]

65. Why not just use the "ignore" option? n/t

[Lex]

66. I'm tired of people giving up when faced with any obstacle.

Of course people will meet new ideas with skepticism and sometimes even hostility, THAT IS TO BE EXPECTED. And on an anonymous messageboard that is amplified.

But to rollover and give up after a few days is just unbelieveable to me.

Filtering out the noise and charging ahead with your strategy taking along those who want to help is what I thought would happen.

Sorry this lasted for such a short time. Sad, really.

[WilliamPitt]

74. Please

People in DS's line of work have a limited amount of time to work with. Trust me, I know. DS did not have the time to slog through hundreds of posters who couldn't do anything more than piss on the ideas. If people didn't like it or didn't agree, the could have stayed away and let those who wanted to help do so.

DU wasted his/her time.

[Lex]

77. Come on.

"If people didn't like it or didn't agree, the could have stayed away . . . "

You didn't *really* expect that here, or anywhere for that matter, did you?

Critics, naysayers, bloviators, and cynics are EVERYwhere, and most especially on an anonymous message boards.

I'm sad to see him go, but perhaps he has found a special haven where there are no critics, naysayers, etc.

91. & yet you are still here

I've always had the impression that you are pretty busy also, but you seem to have the time to slog through hundreds of posts by posters who piss on your ideas.

[saracat]

97. My ! WiIl, that sounded like Ari Fleicher.

I don't think it would be either possible or right to censor DUers from replying to any poster they with whom disagree. And BTW, there is an implication that Dem -Strategist opinion is somehow worth more than anyone else's. Without knowing the identity of all posters I fail to see how anyone could come to that conclusion. That being said, I will miss DS. It was an interesting experience.( And as he garnered several bits of information, I don't think DU wasted his time!)

[madfloridian]

120. I was not pissing ideas. My posts were thoughtful.

DS chose not to take them that way. You are choosing not to take them that way.

[0007]

67. Why the announcement? Silence speaks volumes

[oasis]

68. Dem Strategist, your comments/suggestions were positive additions

to DU. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[Capn Sunshine]

72. I haven't been online lately

who are you , and why should I care?

I'll ask Art Torres again.

[TheDonkey]

79. So who are you, if I may ask?

that's the burning question of the day.

[bambo53]

83. The answer to that question should not be too hard.

Simply put the pieces together; timing, views, personality traits. Go back to the 2002 election threads if you can.

[mzmolly]

95. Wasn't here in 2002, gimme a better clue.

;)

[fob]

121. Jiacinto?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

122. God, I hope not.

I'd hate to think that guy was in charge of anything more than his own bowels.

[The Magistrate]

84. Concerning Your Added Comments, Mr. Strategist

Be assured there is no need to trouble yourself on that score.

Any and all squabbles you observed in discussions you initiated would have occured anyway, only on some other verbal field.

The negativity you observed is inherent to the personalities and political character of the most negative disputants. Some persons are simply of such a temperament, just as some persons are phlegmatic or encouraging, and some political orientations seek wreckage in the hope that they can rule it, at least, forlorn though that hope most always is.

One thing that several years here has demonstrated to me is that those wed to negativity are loud out of all proportion to their actual number, even here in a left-oriented forum. Though it is sometimes adviseable to engage them, the fact is that in general they can be safely ignored, here as well as in the general populace.

"Let 'em yap!""

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Padraig18]

89. I'm sorry to see you go!

I've enjoyed your insight and overall sound advice. Best of luck to you!

:hi:

[Egnever]

98. Exactly what I expected.

It goes along way to explaining whats going on with the Kerry campaign.

Another poor me outlash. How pathetic. I am too important to be bothered with your differeing ideas.

Fine dont let the door hit you on the ass. What do you feel you accomplish by posting this trash? Do you think you are helping Kerry by telling people they are not worthy of your presence here? Or was it just a personal catharsis making you feel better.


What a load. I say that to you and all the mindless fan boys that will likely respond to this post.

Du is full of a wide range of viewpoints this is not nor ever has been a board of lockstep agreement. I dont know what you expected to get from here or what value if any you thought anouncing your presence here would add.

But by posting the classic "fine I am not posting here anymore thread" here you join a long list of lamers who when their viewpoints were confronted by different opinions just cant stand the heat so instead of just going, feel they need to anounce it to everyone.

Do you feel better now?

:eyes:

[otohara]

99. Does The GOP Blow Off Their Base So Easily?

When I think about how much DU'ers have done in the past few years to get the dems off their asses and fight back w/ E-mails, letters, phone calls, etc...

Nothing worked - then Howard Dean came along, only Dean was able to energize the dem party to speak up. We all saw what party heads did to Dean, were you part of that strategy?

Sounds to me as if you are perfectly happy with same old, same old dem groupthink.

[Egnever]

109. Spot on!

Of course the GOP base is not allowed to dissagree either so perhaps they do. Maybe the bush loyalty oaths were a wake up call to the strategists like this one.

[mzmolly]

102. I really hope you'll reconsider. The people that don't want to read

your friggin threads can HIDE THEM!

Shit, don't let the jerks get you down. We need to harness the positive energy here if we can and actually GET ACTIVE.

I really hope you'll work on your plan as originally intended and uhm ... enjoy the ignore feature. :hi:

There is no reason you can't start your blog, and invite those of us interested in making a difference. :shrug:

[madfloridian]

133. Wow, on that one. You are calling other DUers jerks.

That does not go down well with me.

[mzmolly]

136. Some are jerks MF. I wasn't implying anything about anyone in particular.

But I've been on the receiving end of jerks here and elsewhere, haven't you?

[dave29]

106. playing dumb

ok folks, stop telling us to figure it out.

Who is DEM_STRATEGIST and why should we be worried about a person who will not give us his/her identity, and is leaving because they don't have tough enough skin for DU?

Please do not tell me to look at the other threads, I've gone through a few of them and I still don't have an answer. Someone come clean, I refuse to feel bad for something I didn't know was happening, don't know if it matters that it happened, and don't even know if I participated in making it happen.

Thanks very much.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

113. It doesn't matter. Let's just forget the whole incident.

Why would we want to know, to get a little thrill that so-and-so is listening to us? This was a low-level backroom strategist. There are others who continue to post here. Let's talk to them. Dem_Strategist is history.

[Egnever]

116. Does it matter in the end?

Will you suddenly be star struck? Will his/her opinions suddenly become more/less credible?

As one who is very rarely star struck. I couldn't care less who he/she is. I will either agree or disagree with what they have to say. Why would it make a difference?

Apparently it is someone with a very thin skin. Which in and of itself worries me, that they have any control whatsoever over the Kerry campaign. No wonder Kerry is afraid to take the fight to bush. His "strategists" buckle at the thought of confrontation.

[dave29]

127. This is not my point

and DEM_STRATEGIST clearly does not work for the Kerry campaign.

My point is this:

There is a lot of "clique" going on at DU, which is understandable considering the breadth and depth of opinion we allow within the Democratic Party. However, this cliquing works against us. It may have worked well during the Primaries as everybody had their own candidate, but we should be working together now.

Working together means tolerance, and that often means building a thicker skin. We shouldn't be hiding from each other, and only listening to some opinions. We need to understand the ANGER of those on the left, and even feel it to a degree if we want to understand that perspective. We need to Understand the passion of those in the CENTER - and understand their resentment of those on the left that they perceive to be harming our chances of winning.

The only hope we have of gaining WISDOM is by trying to experience as many perspectives as possible, be they angry, or even completely different from our own. Let in all the light, you'll be surprised at how much clearer the picture is.

[Egnever]

135. Couldn't agree more.

I am constantly amazed by the increasingly shrill scream to conform!

We all agree Bush has to go the fact that we do does not make any single candidate a saint. Nor does it mean we should stop fighting for what we believe in.

I hope you are right and this person does not in reality work for Kerry . If they do from what I have seen from them on this board we are in a world of hurt if this is the caliber of strategy they have going on over there.

[SayitAintSo]

124. Quitter

[yardwork]

125. A lot of negative posts here are written by disruptors

who have no interest in getting Kerry elected, or are even being paid to help get BushCo put back in the WH.

We all have to deal with the disruptors and distractors here - it's part of being on an internet message board.

If you are genuinely interested in helping Kerry get elected, I hope you will decide to stick around and help the cause, even though it will be difficult at times.

[Skinner]

140. I think I'm going to lock this thread.

And I'm going to lock some other threads about this, because I don't think this is really helping the mood on the message board.

I want to say that I really appreciate that Dem_Strategist came to DU and felt that DU was important enough to be worth the time and the aggravation. But I also understand Dem_Strategist's decision to pull the plug on this particular experiment.

I've been running this message board for a long time. Many of you have been online for a long time, here and elsewhere. I think it is easy for all of us to lose sight of the fact that Internet discussion boards have a very peculiar social dynamic, which takes a lot of time to get used to. Even if someone has the best intentions, it is very easy to be misunderstood. I believe that everyone had the best of intentions, but this exercise was ultimately unlikely to work due to the limitations of the message board medium itself.

For years the three admins have tried to figure out how to harness the massive potential of a place like this, and we have repeatedly found ourselves frustrated. I don't think anyone should be particularly surprised that this effort did not pan out, because it has happened so often in the past. I just appreciate that the effort was made, and I appreciate everyone who cared enough about it to share their thoughts and their comments.

If there is one positive thing that came out of this, I do know that all of our hard work has not been in vain, because apparently someone out there is listening. And someone out there cares what we have to say.

Skinner
DU Admin