Can I have the single best link on debunking the Swift Boaters?

[WilliamPitt]

Thanks in advance.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. Don't you think the NYT article is best overall, since it summarizes all

the rest?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html

[TaleWgnDg]

2. uuummmm . . . you chose . . .

1) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html

2) http://www.time.com/time/election2004/medals/

3) http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2859861.php

there's more . . . but this should be enough for starters . . .

[DoBotherMe]

3. Maybe a line from Lt. Kerry's testimony?

"We are angry because we feel we have been used in the worst fashion by the administration of this country." D ; )

Oops, I read "line" rather than "link." (edit)

[wtmusic]

4. Try this

http://ideamouth.com/swift.htm

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. Try this one

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com

also:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html

[MikeG]

6. While you're at it, read about the Tiger Force war crimes.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=SRTIGERFORCE

In case someone tries to say Kerry was lying about atrocities being committed.

[senseandsensibility]

7. Not what you asked for, I know

but since the liars are embarking on their new effort to smear Kerry's comments about atrocities in Vietnam, I think that a useful counter punch is to quote Tommy Franks. He was recently on Fox (I read about it here on DU) and told the interviewer that such atrocities did take place.

[F.Gordon]

8. Single best link.....

http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/videoswitcher.jhtml?show=ds&reposid=/multimedia/tds/headlines/9016.html&clip=dailyshow/headlines/9016_headline.wmv&mswmext=.asx

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zulchzulu]

10. Sweet graphic from NYT

[NMDemDist2]

11. don't know if it's the best, but it's a good one too

http://ideamouth.com/swift.htm

[Ravy]

12. For contradicting the self-inflicted wound story, I like this one....

Dole's first wound. It was in the first of these night patrols that Dole received the wound for which he was awarded his first Purple Heart. He ruefully confesses in his 1988 autobiography that his wound was self-inflicted: "As we approached the enemy, there was a brief exchange of gunfire. I took a grenade in hand, pulled the pin, and tossed it in the direction of the farmhouse. It wasn't a very good pitch (remember, I was used to catching passes, not throwing them). In the darkness, the grenade must have struck a tree and bounced off. It exploded nearby, sending a sliver of metal into my leg -- the sort of injury the Army patched up with Mercurochrome and a Purple Heart."

http://www.tedellis.net/dole-article.htm

[merh]

22. Wow, I like that link, thanks!

Wouldn't it be nice to have Bob Dole's comments on the matter? He should come out and denounce the SWBVT - if we had a media and not a group of talking heads that pretend to be journalists, they would surely ask Dole about this and yet another well-known rethug would denouce the liars.

[Democat]

13. There are so many links

There needs to be a link to all the links. :)

[cindyw]

14. Here is a web shot of the Minnesota GOP linking to the Swiftvets site.

May be significant or not.

http://djfiles.home.comcast.net/mngopswift/sd42front-820pm82004.htm

[mzmolly]

15. I think Factcheck.org does a good job of looking at this.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

Sources

Michael Kranish,“Veteran Retracts Criticism of Kerry ,” The Boston Globe, 6 August 2004 .

Jodi Wilgoren, "Vietnam Veterans Buy Ads to Attack Kerry," The New York Times, 5 August 2004.

Douglas Brinkley, Tour of Duty, (NY, HarperCollins, 2004).

Jim Rassmann, "Shame on the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush," Wall Street Journal, 10 Aug 2004: A10.

Ron Fournier, "McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad," Associated Press, 5 August 2004.

Michael Kranish, "Kerry Faces Questions Over Purple Heart," The Boston Globe , 14 April 2004: A1.

Michael Kranish, "Heroism, and growing concern about war," The Boston Globe, 16 June 2003.

Maria L. La Ganga and Stephen Braun, "Race to the White House: Veterans Battle Over Truth; An ad calls Kerry a liar. His Vietnam crew sees a hero. Memories, and agendas, are in conflict." Los Angeles Times 17 Aug 2004: A1.

Michael Dobbs, "Records Counter A Critic Of Kerry; Fellow Skipper's Citation Refers To Enemy Fire" Washington Post, 19 Aug. 2004: A1.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. But their conclusion is that the SmearVets are just as credible as Rasmann

et al...

At this point, 35 years later and half a world away, we see no way to resolve which of these versions of reality is closer to the truth.
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

What kind of fact checking is that, when these liars have contradicted themselves and the official records, and Factcheck can't tell who is more credible?

Add in their Republican ties, and I don't think they are a credible source.

[mzmolly]

24. I agree to an extent. I heard they are RW funded, however they

open by saying:

A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas began running an attack ad Aug. 5 in which former Swift Boat veterans claim Kerry lied to get one of his two decorations for bravery and two of his three purple hearts.
But the veterans who accuse Kerry are contradicted by Kerry's former crewmen, and by Navy records.

Keep in mind ... factcheck is updated DAILY. They just updated today. I disagree that there is no way to resolve this as they claim, but they do show both sides of the argument and provide lots o documentation. :hi:

[mzmolly]

16. All Kerry's military records are here:

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/combat_reports.html

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/command_history.html

[rumguy]

18. Britney Spears

[Stephanie]

19. Will, please help get these pix to the Kerry legal team

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=646015&mesg_id=646015

Clear evidence of coordination between the Bush Campaign and the Swiftboat Liars.

[Sparkly]

20. I like eRiposte's

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/

[alcuno]

21. It's almost getting hard to track all of their lies. Unbelievable.

Kerry can't let this go because a lot of damage has been done. It's going to take time to repair some of it.

And from tomorrows Chicago Tribune - they are called liars yet again.

"The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry during the Vietnam War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging Kerry's integrity and war record.

William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry.

Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, said Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was praised by their superiors. He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" untrue.

"The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us. It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there," Rood said in a 1,700-word first-person account published in Sunday's Tribune.

Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip of South Vietnam was backed by key military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing after-action report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and Kerry's task force, who is now a critic of the Democratic candidate."

[Sparkly]

23. Great!!

I hope Rood will go on some talk shows!

[UTUSN]

26. Here Are Links to the ROOD Account

Unfortunately, Mr ROOD says he will not speak out on this matter again, meaning that the lying, P.o.S. swiftbots will have the airtime all to themselves.

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-040821rood...

Anti-Kerry vets not there that day

By William B. Rood
Chicago Tribune
Published August 21, 2004

There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago—three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969.

One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other.

For years, no one asked about those events. But now they are the focus of skirmishing in a presidential election with a group of swift boat veterans and others contending that Kerry didn't deserve the Silver Star for what he did on that day, or the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts he was awarded for other actions.

Many of us wanted to put it all behind us—the rivers, the ambushes, the killing. Ever since that time, I have refused all requests for interviews about Kerry's service—even those from reporters at the Chicago Tribune, where I work.

But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown. The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us. It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there.

Even though Kerry's own crew members have backed him, the attacks have continued, and in recent days Kerry has called me and others who were with him in those days, asking that we go public with our accounts.

I can't pretend those calls had no effect on me, but that is not why I am writing this. What matters most to me is that this is hurting crewmen who are not public figures and who deserved to be honored for what they did. My intent is to tell the story here and to never again talk publicly about it. ....


---------Intro to the above-------

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-040821kerr...

Swift boat skipper: Kerry critics wrong
Tribune editor breaks long silence on Kerry record; fought in disputed battle

By Tim Jones
Tribune national correspondent
Published August 21, 2004

The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry during the Vietnam War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging Kerry's integrity and war record.

William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry. ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[OKNancy]

28. Truthout link - easier reading

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082204Y.shtml

[Zorra]

25. Here is a collection with a few AWOL Bu$h links thrown in:

Bush AWOL

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5761856

John Kerry Service Record

http://www.vietnamwar.net/Kerry-2.htm

Link to John Kerry/Bu$h service records

http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp

Swiftboat Thurlow Liar

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-20...

NEW YORK TIMES

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?hp

MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/

KERRY RASSMAN AD

http://www.johnkerry.com/tv/

Rood Chicago Trib

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-040821kerr...

Rood MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731

Bush family ties swifties

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/

factcheck

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=3&u=/ap/20040805/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_mccain

Bush nowhere to be found

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FH07Aa01.html

BUSH DESERTER COMPREHENSIVE

http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm

ELLIOT SWIFTBOAT RETRACTION

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

David Corn Lambert

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1692

Knight ridder kerry records disprove

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/9455159.htm

SWIFTBOATS SUNK

http://www.zeppscommentaries.com/2004/sunk.htm

MORE SMEAR DEBUNK

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_3094687,00.html

MORE AWOL

http://www.opednews.com/weiner_080904_bush_awol.htm

RASSMAN

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id...

DAVID LIMBAUGH SWIFTIE PROPAGANDA

http://www.opednews.com/wade_081504_limbaugh_swift_boat.htm

Kerry condemns ad

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129387,00.html

Texan, GOP donor helps finance anti-Kerry veterans group
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/gop.donor.ap/index.html

[JohnLocke]

27. This chart