Mark Crispin Miller: Obama's FISA Statement is a Mess (Just like his Stand on Faith-based Programs)

[highplainsdem]

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/070708Miller.shtml

Obama's recent rightward moves—concerning BushCo's faith-based programs, and the FISA bill—have both been loudly justified by commentators who would certainly deplore them if it weren't Obama who had made them.

The thinking goes like this: "Obama's our guy, and he's really cool, the candidate of 'change,' so we should cut him all the slack he needs, so he can get elected president. In any case, this recent stuff is not so bad. So let's all lighten up—or else. Because he has to make such moves, or he will lose; and those who criticize him now are only helping the Republicans."

That view is wrong on every count. Obama's moves are not merely pragmatic gestures, like Bill Clinton's "Sister Souljah moment" (to which they've been compared). While "standing up to Sister Souljah" (!) was purely a theatrical display, meant to "send a message" to particular voters, these shifts by Obama have serious consitutional implications, regardless of his good intentions or hisrare skill at finessing what he's done.

-snip-

Those who counsel silence on these matters seem to place their party, and its candidate, above the Constitution; and that posture is not just immoral, but gratuitous. All those anxious efforts to explain away Obama's cave-ins, and to halt all critical discussion of them, come from the conviction that he'll lose if there's a whisper of dissent within his camp, or if he doesn't pander to the right.

-snip-

If, therefore, they really want to see Obama win, those who keep reflexively defending him should concentrate instead on how to keep the GOP from stealing this election, too (something that Obama seems to think is quite impossible). Such activism would be more productive—and, in the noblest sense, more patriotic—than enabling his collusion in Bush/Cheney's crimes against the Constitution.

[anonymous171]

1. The shifter is McCain.

The shifter is McCain.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Let's keep repeating that--McCain is the flip-flopper.

I refuse to let the media win this one.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GarbagemanLB]

4. Bill Clinton began this whole 'church working with govt' in the Welfare Reform Act, FYI.

How many people here were bitching about it then?

Bush took it to a whole new level, granted...but the idea has been in place before W sullied the entire idea of government working with faith-based charities.

[bunnies]

7. No kidding. Clinton supported it, Gore supported it...

Hell, even Edwards supports it. Wheres the outrage? Oh yeah... reserved for Obama. :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

12. Obama - and his supporters - claim he's something different, and better than this kind of thing.

He's a politician who will avoid taking a stand or making a firm statement when it suits him.

Hell, FDR did the same thing. It drove people nuts.

ER: Franklin, you can be a duplicitous bastard at times, let ME drive, at least people know where I'm going!

[Cha]

20. Yeah, I know you don't

support Obama..what the fuck are you all doing on this board then?

[cali]

5. idiot. try focusing on McCain and what his stances are, fool.

And I'm addressing Miller not you.

[Demit]

6. Somehow the faith-based business doesn't bother me...

That one, I can see the strategy behind. I can see co-opting the religiosity and maybe turning it around into a positive, encouraging charities to aid the poor & so forth, which is a time honored pursuit of religious orgs. Though it did make me cringe that he retained the same phraseology.

[Kaylee]

8. If I could draw at all , I would make a editorial cartoon of

Obama being beaten to a pulp by donkeys wielding baseball bats with the words FISA, Faith-Based, Abortion, Capital Punishment on them while McCain happily steps over his body and into the front door of the White House.

[NJmaverick]

9. Obama's ONLY job is to get elected

Until then, nothing else is required of him. KNOW IT, LEARN IT and COMMIT IT TO MEMORY!


So stop posting CRAP that hurts our candidtate.

[chimpymustgo]

22. If posting the TRUTH hurts our candidate, we're in pickle.

[Hoof Hearted]

31. I grovel in blind adoration of no human being. Period.

[endarkenment]

10. The MSM tools regurgitate MSM narrative without even knowing it.

At least Rush et al know what they are doing. Miller should know better, considering that he is a professor of media studies, and should understand that he is being whiplashed into poutrage.

[blues90]

11. There is a lot of truth in what Miller has said .

People who choose to ignore everything which includes the many ways of stealing elections which are still in place are now the kool aid drinkers.

As the tide shifts many people have one thing in mind which is to jump to what they feel is the winning side and they do this without question.

After all that has happened in the last 7 1/2 years anyone who puts so much faith in politicians of any party are fools.

People don't seem to see how low bush has lowered the bar to the point where anything they hear and see that looks just a bit better than bush which is not difficult is the path they take.

Just to attempt to justify Obama's change on FISA and now this faith based crap is shear ignorance , don't question it just push it all aside based on faith of a candidate. This is where the hope comes in.

They Hope Obama will do the right thing then the change may come. No one knows this , they just hope out of desperation and that part I do understand.

[endarkenment]

14. Fuck that shit.

Indeed we should work ourselves into a frenzy of inertia over the fact that Obama != Kucinich. I never thought Obama was anything other than a moderate centrist Democrat. I am sorry for all the bad feelings in the permanently poutraged progressives here who forgot to look up Obama's record before they signed up to support him. He was my third choice for good reasons.

We need to win this election and Obama is a vastly better choice than McCain. Keep that thought right next to your concern over the campaign's determiniation to keep to the center and win this election big enough to nullify all attempts at fraud.

[blues90]

16. Look I am concerned about election fraud

Not only for the president but mostly for the house , look how well the large turn out worked in 2006 , we won by a small edge and look what we got for the efforts.

These candidates and I don't give a shit who they are, have not even brought up the black box theft machines and if they had it would be proof that they gave a damn. Instead they know they have their seats by default and do nothing about it.

It's just another scam that goes un-touched another right violated , so fuck the get the most voters out there if the end result will be who knows what.

It must be tuff and hard work for these reps to sit in their luxury with all the benefits and money and no conscience and do nothing but had over money to fund the occupation. It's easy to make promises when you they have nothing to lose and it's easy for them to jump to the winning side for their own position and personal gain. They will toss anyone under the bus to get what they want and the people accept this and do nothing.

If anything by now the people show be able to see and smell a lie a thousand miles away , perhaps they can but just go along to get along with hope as their co-pilot.

[high density]

13. In a world where the media would be eager to label Obama as pro-terrorist for being anti-FISA...

Obama's position seems to make sense. See Keith Olbermann's comment on the issue.

The entire Wes Clark smear from last week is enough to show that Obama has to play the media game very carefully, and he's been doing pretty good with it so far. Obama says no to FISA and the rest of the campaign will be the media telling everybody that he stands on the side of Osama bin Laden, et al.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

15. This is unbelievable. Really disgusting!!! The target is John McM$M!!

[crimsonblue]

17. mark cripin miller?

douchebag extraordinaire? Check.

journalist? Nope.

[progressoid]

18. But in the long run it ain't gonna matter much.

While I disagree with Obama on many things (like the faith based initiatives mess), the fact is it won't matter to most of Amurica.

How many people do you think will change their vote based on the FISA issue? Most voters don't even know what it is.

[rg302200]

19. Miller's article is complete bullshit

why is this shit getting posted on DU? Are we not supposed to help Democrats not hurt them?

[Cha]

21. They want mccain...

fucking losers.

[LowerManhattanite]

23. PUMAS gone mad...

“E-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-n-n-n-n-n-h!”

[Cha]

24. PUMA

Pathetic Unified Mccain A$$holes.

[highplainsdem]

25. Mark Crispin Miller is a PUMA? LOL!

He's always been viewed as a hero at DU. Don't think I ever saw anything negative about him, till he dared to disagree with Obama.

Along with Hayden, Huffington, Herbert, Kos, and other people whose opinions were previously respected and quoted here.

Party unity is not served by kicking progressives under the bus.

[ProSense]

26. Mark Crispin Miller is an opportunist!

What's with you and the "hero of DU" crap? What the hell does that mean. People can think for themselves.

[highplainsdem]

27. Search for old posts about him. He's been widely admired here.

Ditto Bob Herbert, Arianna Huffington, Tom Hayen, and others who have been vilifed recently for having dared to disagree with Obama on some point, even though they supported him overall.

[chimpymustgo]

29. Under the bus!

Must stomp out all dissent!!!!

[ProSense]

30. Not by me. I don't care. n/t

[LowerManhattanite]

32. Wasn't directed at Miller, hotshot. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

28. I continue to wonder what possible good it will do to

elect McCain???

Let's say in some crazed world one is no better than the other for our country, then in that last desperate moment at least give me the guy that can read his speech and tell a lie without some wacky used car salesman's grin or worse the tick McCain gets when he's busting out a whopper.

I believe that's not the case. I believe we have as close to an advocate of the people and the constitution as we can possibly get elected today and the highrollers that back him are most of the only "mainstream" politicians that I remotely trust.

So protest all you like but I don't see a lot of viable alternatives. McSame, "No Chance" Barr (rat off sinking ship, reluctant libertarian), "No Chance" Nader (arguable saint that has lost his bearings/in it to spoil it), and Hillary "I'm into the corporate master up to my eyeballs" Clinton, don't get me wrong I'd vote for her and have contributed to her debt but in all reasonableness if you're bitter about the death penalty, FISA, faith based programs, or being potentially beholden to big business then you might want to at least rethink your candidate a bit.


The only things that actually bothers me are FISA of course and supporting the death penalty dissent. However, both are political no brainers if you have any intent on getting elected.
Maybe, he could get away with supporting the death penalty ruling but FISA would turn from unknown issue to anchor around the neck by November. That's material that the GOP spin machine would use to great effect. The death penalty thing serves as a connection to protecting one's children and by extension humanizes Obama to some that couldn't find a way to relate before. It also keeps down the "Willie Horton" factor.

Obama is waiting. He's a lawyer. He's waiting for McCain to try to use these stances as reversals and will use to opportunity to hit him with false witness, is own "flexibility", and as a platform to show himself as "rational" and human.

Unfortunately for all humanity, politics is not what we want it to be. We MUST recognize what politics are and take full advantage if we don't want to just waive the white flag on even the appearance of self determination. This muck is nasty and deceitful in the best of times but it is an art and unfortunately a game. It's at least 80% performance and playing the game.

Oscar Robertson, Micheal Jordan, LaBron James are all different kinds of players but they still had to play the same old game (more or less, to be fair).

[QC]

33. Oh well, I guess it's Miller's turn to get thrown under the Hopemobile.

Is there any room left under there?