The second swift boat ad implies Kerry lied, REMEBER Mylai!

[still_one]

...
Charlie Company met no resistance; there were no Viet Cong soldiers at My Lai. Calley then ordered the slaughter of the civilians. People were rounded up into ditches and machine-gunned. They lay five feet deep in the ditches; any survivors trying to escape were immediately shot. When Calley spotted a baby crawling away from a ditch, he grabbed her, threw her back into the ditch, and opened fire. Some of the dead were mutilated by having "C Company" carved into their chests; some were disemboweled. One GI would later say, "You didn’t have to look for people to kill, they were just there. I cut their throats, cut off their hands, cut out their tongues, scalped them. I did it. A lot of people were doing it and I just followed. I just lost all sense of direction."


http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/mylai.htm

[Feanorcurufinwe]

1. Did this really happen?

[cynatnite]

8. What an ugly sight!

I don't know the history. Could you elaborate on that photo?

Cyn

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. It is a picture of innocent civilians, including women and children

massacred by American soldiers at My Lai.

Follow the link in the original post for the history: http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/mylai.htm

That picture is from the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai

[Poiuyt]

2. One of the blackest moments in American history

Don't forget that Colin Powell helped in the coverup

[kimchi]

3. That is what pisses me off the most.

Many of the lies they tell are becoming "truth". Fucking revisionist historians (Holocaust, anyone?). With things like the economy and funding social programs, lying continues to be just part and parcel of political spin. But lying about the documented atrocities committed makes my blood boil. It isn't bad enough that people torture, slaughter, bomb and starve others--but to lie about it is to spit on their graves all over again.

Crazy fascist f@#$s is the nicest description I can give of these kind of people at the moment.

[sallyseven]

4. The vets told Kerry all this.

What he said before the committees was what he was told. Bob Kerrey also said some things recently (about two or so years ago ) about bad stuff in Vietnam. We were not nice.

[NYCGirl]

10. Bob Kerrey's a remarkable guy.

He had to contend with some pretty awful memories for a long time.

http://www.alternet.org/story/10842/

[NYCGirl]

11. Sorry, duplicate

NT

[Bozita]

12. Yes, at the Winter Soldier Investigation -- link to transcript

Click on anything. Scary, inhumane stuff.

http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Winter_Soldier/WS_entry.html

[Skidmore]

5. Do you ever wonder if O'Neill and his buddies are protesting too much?

Maybe Kerry's speech to congress back then struck home. I've found myself wondering if these SBV have something to hide?

[kimchi]

6. Yes, I do.

There is no way a person who served in Vietnam can deny what happened in some places-unless they didn't see much action. Denial of what others did, or denial of what they did? Yeah, I've wondered that too.

Most vets won't talk about what they saw. I will give these vets the benefit of the doubt and assume that their denial is protecting their sanity. Otherwise, they are just liars.

[wurzel]

7. This kind of thing happens in all wars.!

Soldiers are not "heroic" because they are "American". War is madness, even when necessary. We have to understand that when we send men into combat. The kinds of things Kerry described did happen. Just like the kind of things that went on in that Baghdad prison happened.

[cmkramer]

9. Not the point, and you're playing right into their hands

The ad deliberately distorts what Kerry said. He was talking about what other veterans had said during public appearances, he wasn't accusing anyone.

There are always atrocities during war time. Viet Nam was no different. It's just that we were always so used to thinking of ourselves as being the good guys that My Lai was a real jolt to the national psyche.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. I think you miss the point.

Kerry was saying in his testimony that atrocities did happen, and some of the SmearVets are trying to play revisionist historian and count on the fact that many younger voters don't know the facts.

[cmkramer]

15. Wrong

First of all, yes, atrocities did happen just like they do in every war. But Kerry was testifying what other veterans said, he never claimed to have witnessed anything. The ad is trying to imply that he turned on his fellow veterans when he never did. The fact that even if he did claim to have witnessed rapes, etc. committed by other military personnel in Viet Nam, he'd be more than likely telling the truth is irrelevant.

Loyalty is very important in the military culture. The Swifties are banking on veterans and others deciding that Kerry was disloyal in his testimony before the Senate.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. Well that is also true. It doesn't contraditct the other point though.

[cmkramer]

17. An example of military loyalty

I used to ride with a guy who was an Army vet and who was very pro-feminist -- very pro-woman on sexual harrassment issues, etc.

Anyway, one morning he had the radio on in the car and some news about the Tailhook scandal came on. Well, I won't use the language he used but suffice it to say he made some very ugly comments about the women who came forward. I asked him if he thought they were all lying about it. He said no, he believed them but that they were wrong to betray their colleagues that way.

The Swifties are looking for vets to have a similar attitude. Yes, they may know -- or believe -- that atrocities took place but they don't think Kerry had the right to bring them up.