Who here thinks Bush campaign accomplished their goal?

[MikeG]

With the Swift Boat ads?

And Kerry can do nothing about it?

And could have done nothing about it two weeks ago?

No matter how hard he screams?

[gollygee]

1. They accomplished part of their goal

They took attention away from what a bad president Bush is for a while.

But they didn't discredit Kerry. The Swifty liars are going down. They didn't want that.

[kentuck]

2. I agree...

They done their damage but they wanted more. Now they have to come up with another line of attack they hope will finish the chaaracter assassination of John Kerry. Kerry should prepare the people of their plans so thta it will backfire when they do it...

[indyjones1938]

21. kick n/t

[stray cat]

3. I think they did.

They wanted to shed doubts on Kerry's integrity and service and I'm afraid with the medias help it had some effect. They wanted Kerry on the defensive and the attention off Iraq and Bush's policies and track record of trashing the middle class among other things. The media wrongly is blaming both groups for negative attacks eventhough when asked by McCain Kerry comdemned one by Move On Pac asking where Bush was when Kerry was serving. The media is still largely giving Bush a free ride.

[mourningdove92]

4. For now, I think they may have. However, lets see what kind of

backlash happens. More and more Veterans are coming out against the SB Liars for Bush. If this thing backfires, and I hope it will, it could crush what is left of Smirks run.

[bogey18]

5. I hate to say it,

but I think it has worked to some extent. The goal is to get Kerry off message, defending stuff that happened 35 years ago and wasting resources on something that shouldn't even be an issue. Wait until the Repub convention - this is going to be spun so many ways against Kerry it is going to make us all a little ill.

This one is for all of the marbles. Like I have said in other posts, what really scares me about these guys is what they are doing right now that I don't know about.

[DU9598]

7. For now

In the short run, it has hurt, but long run this may well be their regime's undoing.

I think of the SBVets as the small arms fire from the shore. Kerry is now turning to the river banks and will fire back causing devastating causalties.

It is a long campaign. Kerry is smarter than Bush and he will turn this all around to devastate the Chimpster.

[salib]

6. No, I think they screwed up, especially Rove, et. al.

Kerry was the Presidential one in this entire affair. Stood above the fray as long as possible then bore down on them and commanded the terms of the debate. For someone who must have fairly ambivalent views about the value of his own service in Viet Nam, he was considered in his a choices and effective in his actions, and precise in his execution. Compare that with ANYTHING * has done.

[Placebo]

8. They Have Officially Taken The Focus Off Iraq & the Economy...

congrats to them. And they have officially put the light on a TRUE american hero's never before questioned brilliant military record. For shame.

But mark my words Karl Rove, it won't last. Your poor excuse for a cheerleader PRESIDENTE will be forced to talk about the issues sooner or later.

[union_maid]

9. Their stuff works, but not for long

Haven't you noticed that? The turn-around time between something this administration does that has them looking good and its blowing up in their collective faces is getting shorter and shorter. I think they did this way too soon for their own good.

[sondee]

14. But they get by with it.

I agree with you. They pull these ridiculous stunts, but instead of getting blackballed--they jump onto another bandwagon and get something else going, AND they get by with it. Can you imagine what would happen to an elected Democrat President if he had told even one-half the lies, or pulled one-half the stunts that Bush has?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. No, the ads have riled up vets

all over the country. Even recent Iraq War wounded are mad. If anything, it will hurt Bush in the long run as more and more vets come up with the truth.

[gulliver]

11. In the "Mission Accomplished" sense...

... they did accomplish their goal. Bush is currently riding high on it, just as he did when he had that jet pilot land him on the aircraft carrier.

I think the payback will be a bitch though. I'm not sure Bush wanted to go into his convention with AWOL back on the front burner, but that is the way I think it will play out. I think we are likely to see some ads with Bush in the flight suit, Bush in his national guard uniform, Bush refusing to denounce the smears against Kerry (on Larry King) ... bracketing the Republican convention coverage.

America has not sunk so low that it will tolerate an attack on one of our troops (Kerry) by a bunch of yahoos with the implicit go-ahead from the sitting "commander-in-chief."

[sundancekid]

17. Agreed, and that payback bitch has got sisters ... don't anyone think

you can dishonor vets without riling them up to the max ... not to mention the fuming vet families ... we accomplish our mission best by payback at the ballot box, and the "troops" (so to speak) are at the ready and reporting for duty

[mzmolly]

12. It depends on what is done from here. It could backfire and turn off

Independents if we play this right. :shrug:

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

13. ...making "Kerry" the issue not "Bush"?

usually re-elections campaigns like this are "referendums on the sitting president".

So, the Bush campaign has done a sharp move here, making it "about Kerry".

[incapsulated]

15. Time will tell

We are still in the thick of it. The tide is turning a bit, so it can still backfire on them. However, if they are still getting traction on this a month from now, they win.

[alcuno]

16. The jury is still out.

The stew continues to simmer.
The souffle has yet to rise.
There's a long road to hoe.
Etc, etc, etc.

[indyjones1938]

18. yes for now, but maybe not come nov

Unfortunately, I think that the ads have achieved their goal. Some of you will flame me, but here is my reasoning:

(1) The main goal of the ads was to provide a distraction from the sluggish economy and turmoil in Iraq. The Bush people wanted to derail Kerry's issue-based campaign, take away his momentum and put him on the defensive. On this count, the ads have been very successful. Just look at DU - there are hundreds of messages a day just about the Swift Boat Vets. Almost every cable and network news show and national newspaper mentions the Swift Boat Vets constantly, not to mention the Associated Press and subsequently the thousands of local newspapers across the country. Sure, Kerry has remained focused on the issues as he travels across the country, but the media has NOT - and that is the problem. The very fact that we're constantly debating and trying to debunk the Swift Boat Vets is proof that their allegations have stuck.

(2) Rove's goal with these ads was simply to cast doubt in the minds of Americans about Kerry's credibility and honor. He is relying on a very true assumption: most Americans are very simple-minded and gullible. They accept what they hear on the news as gospel, and do not question facts or examine evidence. It's a saturation campaign he's playing - get the Swift Boat story as much media coverage as possible. Get it mentioned on every radio show and news network and in every newspaper and magazine. Even if the attacks are discredited (as is presently occurring) there will always be a small faction of the population dumb enough to believe them. Rove is using the polarized electorate to his advantage. Approximately 95% of Americans have made up their mind as to who they're going to vote for. It's either Bush or Kerry, and absolutely nothing is going to change their minds. So, Rove is using all the dirty tricks he can dig up to net those 3% of undecideds into the Bush column. If even 20% of undecideds (only 1 in 5) go Bush because of these ads, then Rove is theoretically 1/3 of the way closer to winning the election. Polls have shown that over 40% of Americans believe there is some truth to the ads. Surely some of them are undecideds, and that's all Rove needs. It's like standing far away from a dartboard, closing your eyes and throwing all the darts at once. Most of the darts will miss the board altogether, but one might just hit the bullseye. And if you don't hit the bullseye the first time, close your eyes and throw all the darts again.


Which leads me to...


(3) The Swift Boat Ads are not - I repeat - not the only thing Rove has up his sleeve. By November, he'll have allegations of sex scandals, perjury, treason, blackmail, high crimes, misdemeanors, jaywalking and unpaid library fines out against Kerry. He will saturate the media with lies, and we'll be so busy debunking them, and the media so busy discussing them (and in the case of FOX/CNN, promoting them) that there will be no focus on Kerry's issues. He will be on the defensive. But the good thing is...

(4) Being on the defensive is NOT always a bad thing! Sometimes, it's just what you need to win the battle...so long as your troops are on the high ground and your opponent has to charge up a wide-open hill to attack you. Remember what the Americans said as the British attacked up Bunker Hill - "wait until you see the whites of their eyes" - then fire away with everything you've got. I honestly think this is the strategy that Kerry and Edwards are employing. They know that Rove and Bush are attackers who like to play dirty, so they're waiting for the right battlefield, where they can take the high ground and bait the Repubs to attack. Then, Bush and Rove will be nothing but chickens for the plucking.

[WiseMen]

19. Have So Far! But if "Open Door" is use to Hit Bush vs Kerry then Backfire

is likely over a concentrated campaign.

Bush does not want the MoveOn "Swift Response" running in
October. The image of him dodging combat while presiding over
senseless combat in Iraq look very bad.

[indyjones1938]

20. kick n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

22. Oh, they've gotten a lot of attention, distracting from real issues, but

I think Kerry can turn it back. I think he waited too long to get tough, though. If you give them an inch. . . they think they're fucking rulers.

:grr:

[democratreformed]

23. No, I don't think so.

IMO, their main goal was to stop all 527 ads from our side. That will not happen.

[Malva Zebrina]

24. It accomplished something

I suspect most of the stupid Bush supporters see it as a duel--with Kerry nose to nose with Bush in a confrontation that determines who is the stronger. That is their mind set--pure bullying and force--nevermind the facts--they will ignore those as we have seen over and over.

They applaud Bush because he "did not back down" - it proves he is a leader and a forceful leader who will not back down from the war on terrorism nevermind they themselves are spitting on the vets.

[BillZBubb]

25. Tactically they were very successful.

The Repugs had to stop the post convention glow on Kerry until their convention. They had to change the subject from Iraq and the slumping economy. They dominated the media discussion and turned Kerry into the issue. If they can get a few independents to write off Kerry because they doubt his service, that's a win too. So, tactically, this was a huge success--they've weathered August.

Strategically, it may or may not turn out to be a blunder. We'll have to wait and find out. If you are a cynic about the voting public (like me!) you probably think Bush* will pay no price for this at all and maybe even gained a little in November. If you are an optimist, you probably think Kerry is going to make Bush* pay for this and that a majority of veterans will rise up in anger in his support.