Democrats are supportive of offshore drilling and will not fight against it.

[madfloridian]

They have had every chance in the world to present reasons why it is not necessary and will not lower gas prices. They have chosen not to do so.

They have had every chance to tell the public that this year over 33% more oil was sold overseas by US companies than in 2007. They chose not to discuss it.

They are forming groups among House centrists to push the plans for drilling offshore forward.

A month after we won back Congress in November 2006...the two Florida senators, Bill Nelson and Mel Martinez, started the push to bring back a bill about drilling.

From December 2006:

Bill Nelson and Mel Martinez seem determined to bring up drilling off Florida again.

Bill Nelson has been back and forth and wishy washy, but he is not against the drilling offshore in Florida.

Congressmen-elect Ron Klein and Tim Mahoney urged their soon-to-be colleagues Monday to reject a bill allowing for limited oil and gas drilling in the eastern Gulf of Mexico.

Meanwhile, Florida's two senators, Democrat Bill Nelson and Republican Mel Martinez, urged the bill's passage.

Nelson spokesman Bryan Gulley said Nelson's staff has been pushing the bill in discussions with House staffers from Florida. Gulley said Democratic control of Congress does not mean there won't be pressure to drill in the gulf. He pointed to recent statements by incoming Senate Energy and Natural Resources Chairman Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., and Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., urging more exploration in the gulf.

Gulley called the Senate bill a "hard-won compromise" and "the best deal we could probably get."

Oh, but wait until you hear what Jeff Bingaman D-NM has to say.

Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., criticized the Senate bill "not because it allows new drilling, but because it protects too much territory off the Florida coast from future exploration."

Senators Reid and Durbin just this July expressed their views that new drilling would not be a problem.

Democrats signal they could be open to compromise on offshore drilling

Democratic leaders showed varying degrees of interest Wednesday in opening up new areas for oil production, as public opinion veers in favor of drilling. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told reporters that expanded offshore drilling, which the Republicans have long supported, is not off the table. He said he opposes giving the states the right to choose whether to drill off their coasts, but also said Democrats are “taking a look at that.”

“I’m not knee-jerk-opposed to anything,” Reid said. “We’re willing to work; we haven’t shut our minds to anything.”

...."..."Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) said Wednesday that he wants to “limit offshore drilling if there is any environmental impact.” He added that there are more than 30 million acres leased by oil companies that they should use to explore. “They ought to lose their leases if they aren’t going to use it,” Durbin said.

However, he also stated, “Beyond that, if there is a suggestion of some new area to go into, I’ll look at it."

More House Democrats are forming coalitions to get it through.

Reps. Neil Abercrombie, D-Hawaii, and John Peterson, R-Pa., are gathering a group of rank-and-file lawmakers — preferably split evenly between the two parties — for a meeting Monday in the hopes of quickly piecing together a legislative package. They plan to formally announce the group’s formation Tuesday.

“There is an effort that’s going on among members to try to … put together something that makes sense and is balanced,” Natural Resources Energy Subcommittee Chairman Jim Costa, D-Calif., said. Costa was one of 19 Democrats, predominately from oil and gas producing districts, who voted against a “use-it-or-lose it” plan sponsored by Democratic leaders shortly before the Independence Day recess

Put that together with Obama's words today, and we should realize we just lost another battle we never even had time to fight. It was a done deal before we ever admitted it.

I may be wrong as I tend to avoid the TV cable news lately, but I have not heard a thing about the US oil companies shipping record amounts of oil overseas.

US oil companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.

While the U.S. oil industry wants access to more federal lands to help reduce reliance on foreign suppliers, U.S.-based companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.

A record 1.6 million barrels a day in U.S. refined petroleum products were exported during the first four months of this year, up 33 percent from 1.2 million barrels a day over the same period in 2007. Shipments this February topped 1.8 million barrels a day for the first time during any month, according to final numbers from the Energy Department.

The surge in exports appears to contradict the pleas from the U.S. oil industry and the Bush administration for Congress to open more offshore waters and Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.

We have always excused the Democrats for not speaking out on issues because they don't have the media access. That has been a valid consideration. But I think we could get that media access if we so wanted now.

If we wanted it.

[FrenchieCat]

1. Leave it up to the Governors and the individual's state's constituents to decide....

Otherwise, you will have LIV in West Virginia and kentucky and Tennessee voting based on something that affects California and Florida and not them.

The Gov in California says no drilling, so no drilling.

What does your Gov say about it?

[madfloridian]

3. I think he just flip flopped so he could be VP

He is now for it while before he was not. :shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

5. That's too bad.

How about folks in Florida? What are the "polls" saying about the support for offshore drilling in Florida?

[madfloridian]

6. Last time they were deadset against it. But propaganda works...

and now they are for it cause it makes them look patriotic. And since no one is telling them the truth, they are wrapping themselves in the flag again. :shrug:

[JustAnotherGen]

11. NJ

Ain't for it!

[madfloridian]

15. I am not sure that many Floridians are, but how do you disprove polls?

If you don't have the data, and none is presented...how do you disprove it?

They show people at the beach pointing out to the Gulf and sounding patriotic and proud to do their job in supporting more drilling.

But no one has told them the truth.

[JustAnotherGen]

25. Not sure

Not sure how to disprove polls my friend.

We are a refining state. We're okay with refining it . . . but one of the key reasons our state government is opposing this and why most people I know are opposing it <i>regardless of their political affiliation</i> - is because the State of NJ has scared us silly that there will be an oil spill and it will destroy our economy. There's huge huge money in our Shore Economy.

When you add shore economy with relatively lower costs of fuel in comparison to the rest of the country . . . The general consensus I get is - we're making money and can afford the gas . . . so we can't risk our gravy train - which offshore oil drilling puts at risk.

I wonder if it's a matter of population in Florida. Seriously. Everyone is crammed into NJ. . . whereas the people it's going to impact the most if it happens - I'm thinking along the lines of the Keys . . . are a 'sparse' population.

Honestly - if I thought Crist was a reasonable human being - I'd write to him on Florida's behalf. One of my favorite places on this planet is Key West. I'd hate to see an oil spill there.

[slick8790]

48. Agreed, Frenchie.

This is not a national issue. Lift the national ban, let states drill if they can get a referendum on the ballot passed supporting it. Caveat: If they fuck up and oil spill, they get no federal cleanup funds. They have to clean up their own mess.

[GarbagemanLB]

2. It is infinitely easier to say 'more drilling' then explain opposition to drilling when consumers

want immediate answers. Of course, drilling won't cut prices but it is easy for the masses to understand/believe in terms of a 'supply v. demand' context.

[madfloridian]

4. Then let's not even try. Take the easy way out.

It's worked so well since 2000.

[FrenchieCat]

7. So you want the election to be on the issue of Offshore Drilling?

And you want the Democrats to fight the media propaganda and change the majority of American's mind?
That sounds like a losing proposition, if you ask me. If Floridians who will actually be effected by Offshore Drilling are for it, what makes you think this is a fight that we could win? just asking.

[madfloridian]

9. We can't win by opposing it .....or anything.

That's the problem.

We should just go along with it.

[FrenchieCat]

14. You didn't really answer my question.

I understand what we would "like" to do.

I am asking you what do you propose be done to change even Floridians' minds at this point.
If they have bought in the propaganda? Do you really want to die on this hill? I don't.
period. Every issue is not a do or die for me. It can't be, or I would be dead by now.
Standing at the bottom of a hill about to climb it if an avalanche is on its way down is not going to get you to the top of that hill. Just saying.

[madfloridian]

20. I don't care. There is nothing I can do anyway.

.

[FrenchieCat]

24. That is the problem, from my perspective.......

With heavy media propaganda, billions from the oil Cos, and so many LIVs, compromise and telling them maybe so might be what is required at this point.

[Mojorabbit]

32. What pisses me off

as a Floridian is we are letting the republicans frame the issue. Every member of our party should be out there refuting this talking point. Instead they are giving in to it.

[madfloridian]

35. You made my point better than I did.

Thanks. :-)

[DaLittle Kitty]

36. Just use T Boone Pickens Point "We're NOT Going To Drill Our Way Out of This!"

:)

[MissPuddy]

73. Is it better to use wind energy here or give money to the Saudis?

I told this to a Republican who said, "T.Boone Pickens is going to make a lot of money with this!"

[DaLittle Kitty]

40. Follow John Russell on THIS OIL Isssue... He Has the Brains and th"Balls"

www.johnrussellforcongress.com Just doit!

[GoForTheJugular]

64. We can fight this once we own the government, not now....

we shouldnt be opposed to more offshore drilling anyway, we aint getting off oil anytime soon and having more domestic supply is not a bad thing... combine that stance with some conservation principles and it would be winning one for us...

and this is a classic point where an ad showing bush holding hands with the saudis and then mccain hugging bush would be appropriate... or is that gutter politics?

[BlooInBloo]

10. Possibly it can be understood that there are two different possible *strategies* possible...

... both of which are reasonable.

Personally, I opt for the asshole strategy (which suffers the defect of being unreasonable): let the hick states cover themselves in oil slicks. Fools.

[Whisp]

34. the drillage will just go to world market is what I understand.

so India and China may get same dibs and McCains spewings mean shit all, like always.
I'm not so up on this, but that is what I understand at the moment.

[cliffordu]

8. Apparently the corporatocracy is further along than in my wildest nightmares.

The oil companies have more rights than you do.

We are Pwned. Totally.

[Union Thug]

12. Yup. And the Dems are as spineless in the majority as they

are as a minority party. They are afraid of a fight and quick to buckle under the slightest pressure. Gawd knows why I remain registered as a Dem.

[Voltaire99]

37. Too true. My support is nearing an end.

One might as well vote for the GOP and get a tax break along with the corporate, anti-environment, anti-labor, pro-war policies.

[SOS]

56. Agreed

The oil companies run the Congress, not the other way around.

They should just give the 535 seats in Congress to the top 535 Wall Street CEOs.
There would be no noticeable difference in policy and we wouldn't have to bother voting every 2 or 6 years.

[madfloridian]

13. Huge propaganda push by media in Florida....one anchor even said

that the US has more oil than Saudi Arabia

Fox 13's John Wilson presented no facts, just a chart showing oil fields off Florida. He is a revered anchor here, so if he says it then it must be true.

When someone says a whopper mouthful like that, how do you prove or disprove?

[FrenchieCat]

16. Hence, your problem.

Until there is a check on Media, I think that "fighting" them in the way one might normally do if it was a fair situation would be the answer. In this case we will have to change the media before we can beat it. Those oil companies have Billions to spend. That's a problem, and I don't think we can get around it at this exact moment.

[madfloridian]

17. I just said we will go along. But I think simple truth just might prevail...

finally. But then we will never know.

Just yesterday I was reading that the GOP was losing on the oil drilling issue. Really? I don't think so.

[DaLittle Kitty]

38. Check John Russell's website on Energy... He's NOT Buying this BullShit! John HAs A Backbone/BRAIN!

www.johnrussellforcongress.com click on energy! :)

[MissPuddy]

72. John Russell seems to be Progressive on energy

Finally a Dem with balls and brains! The energy plan looks like a winner!

[nomaco-10]

18. The lights and mics were turned off today by DEMS !!!....

(PELOSI)to stop the repubs from trying to grandstand and push their offshore drilling agenda.

Don't lay this at the dem's feet. Not this time.

[madfloridian]

21. Glad to hear that. I hope you are right.

I really do.

[Mass]

26. Yes, in the Senate, 5 Dems cosponsored a bill that allows more drilling if the states want it.

Same usual offenders: Conrad, Nelson (NE), Pryor, Lincoln, and Landrieu.

The bill will be examined in September.

[madfloridian]

19. I guess I just wonder what really IS worth fighting for anymore.

The oil platforms off Florida will be right in the path of the numerous hurricanes on their travels into the Gulf of Mexico.

When is it too late to go back? When things are no longer fixable? Maybe that Gulf Dead Zone is bigger than I realized, and it no longer matters unless it hits the shores.

[madfloridian]

22. Gang of 10 formed to push the drilling.

The proposed bill and the Gang of 10

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/01/MNEA123KET.DTL

Lawmakers could be waking up to the fact that the election-year blame game between the two parties hasn't eased the pain Americans are feeling from $4-a-gallon gas prices. That's why the so-called "Gang of 10" senators - a group of five Democrats and five Republicans - is pushing what they describe as a middle cour between the Republicans' insistence on more drilling and Democrats' demands for more renewables and efficiency measures.

The Senate bill would open areas of the eastern Gulf of Mexico near Florida to new oil and gas rigs and let four Southern states - Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia - choose whether to allow drilling off their shores. The bill's sponsors would keep the West Coast and Northeast off-limits in an effort to pacify anti-drilling lawmakers from those states.

The group's effort was modeled on the "Gang of 14," a group of seven Democrats and seven Republicans who defused a bitter dispute in the Senate in 2005 over the confirmation of President Bush's judicial nominees. Chambliss reached out last month to North Dakota Democratic Sen. Kent Conrad, whom he had worked with on the recent farm bill, to form a similar group to plot a compromise on energy.

The group includes mostly moderates and senators from oil- and ethanol-producing states: Arkansas' two Democratic senators; Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor; South Dakota Republican John Thune; South Carolina Republican Lindsey Graham; Louisiana Democrat Mary Landrieu; Georgia Republican Johnny Isakson; Nebraska Democrat Ben Nelson; and Tennessee Republican Bob Corker.

New oil and gas rigs in the eastern Gulf. Right where the hurricanes blow. Many come ashore there in the eastern Gulf.

[NCarolinawoman]

30. My Democratic Governor is against drilling off the NC coast.

As is the Democrat Congressional delegation. The Democrat who is running for Governor this fall (she is leading in the polls) is also against drilling. The two NC Republican Senators support drilling. Elizabeth Dole's Democratic challenger is AGAINST drilling.

So within North Carolina,it's a Democrat versus Republican thing

Unfortunately, Virgina and SC support drilling, so NC is in a mess. Caught between a rock and a hard place.:mad:

[madfloridian]

33. I just did a Google "news" search on "offshore drilling"...so confusing.

Not a web search, a news search. It does sound like many Dems are either not opposed or are on board with some drilling.

They are definitely not standing up against it.

I guess they have to go along. I guess. :shrug:

Did you know Dole's challenger is our deceased governor, Lawton Chiles, niece? Joe Ruthven's daughter, raised in our area. Great family.

[Mass]

23. Oil is part of the problem, not the solution. And global warming and pollution will hurt

the poor before it hurt the rich.

But, I am not surprised that the Senate does not get it. Aside for a handful of Senators, they do not get the difference between energy independence and global warming. So, they let the GOP run with the issue.

The point is that, as long as we do not set strict standards rather than letting the industries set them, we will go nowhere, and, once again, we accept a law that goes nowhere rather than telling the truth. I am not blaming Obama here, more the Democrats who have chickened. But I am not surprised, now that I have seen Reid and Pelosi have met with Pickens.

(I'm surprised I did not see Bill Nelson in the 10 senators. Did I miss him?).

[madfloridian]

27. I think he supports a different bill.

Looking for it. First he was for drilling off Florida, then he came out against it, now he is sort of for it again.....hard to keep up.

I am looking for the article I read yesterday.

[madfloridian]

28. My bad...Nelson switched again.

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/drilling_9833___article.html/moratorium_gulley.html

"U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson vowed Thursday to "take whatever action is necessary" to halt the Interior Department from preparing plans to drill for oil and natural gas off the nation's coast.

Under the plan, the U.S. Minerals Management Service would begin plotting areas now protected from drilling to offer for sale under a five-year plan.

The maps would presumably include areas in the eastern Gulf of Mexico now protected by a moratorium.

The moratorium bans drilling within an invisible "military mission line" that extends south from Hurlburt Field to include the entire gulf to Florida's west coast.

Nelson spokesman Bryan Gulley said the Interior Department's announcement - coming a year after the last Mineral Management Service five-year plan was published - is suspiciously "


I read something else, though, still looking.

[DaLittle Kitty]

41. Nelson has a Spine like an Earthworm "0" Nelson is afterall a REPUBLICAN!

WAKEUP PEOPLE... BOUGHT AND PAID FOR THAT'S BILLY NELSON! :puke:

[RufusTFirefly]

51. Perhaps Nelson was using the patented Feinstein Method

Step 1: Immediately cave in to the Republicans, thus blunting early efforts to build any sort of Democratic opposition.
Step 2: Later on, once the Republican juggernaut has gained momentum, publicly adopt the traditional Democratic position and louldy lament the fact that the Republican effort seems to be unstoppable.

It's a wonderful gambit because it allows you to side with Republicans yet vote Democratic.

[madfloridian]

53. Heh heh, you might not be far off at all.

That is what he sounds like. I never really should quote his stance on anything as it might be different in a little while.

[madfloridian]

29. Very confusing. Rep. Mel Martinez opposes the Gang of 10 plan

And apparently Bill Nelson does as I posted above. They are not against off shore drilling per se, as least that is what I am seeing. They are against certain plans.

http://www.mgwashington.com/index.php/2008electionblog/blog_index/fla-senator-criticizes-gang-of-10-energy-plan/1395/

"WASHINGTON – Florida GOP Sen. Mel Martinez says a energy plan offered today by a bipartisan group of 10 other senators falls short – and could give Floridians a lack of say in determining where off-shore oil exploration could occur. Among the initiatives proposed by the new energy “Gang of 10” is an oil drilling plan that would open up areas of the eastern Gulf of Mexico, as well as areas off the eastern United States.

“I compliment the group for coming together in a bipartisan way to try to address the current energy crisis. Unfortunately, the proposal would eliminate Florida’s 2006 Gulf protections and give Floridians absolutely no voice in determining where exploration could occur,” said Martinez, in a statement.

“Our current crisis is a supply and demand problem and we need a comprehensive plan to address our energy needs and that includes substantially increasing domestic production as well as conservation, and renewable fuel technology,” he said.

But he added, “A comprehensive solution includes oil shale production, exploring (the Artic National Wildlife Refuge, and allowing states to decide where to develop offshore resources. This proposal falls short of meeting those goals.”

He supports increasing production, though. :shrug:

[Hippo_Tron]

42. Doesn't seem confusing to me

Florida's Senators support drilling so long as they don't do it off of the Florida coast.

[madfloridian]

43. You might just be right.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

31. I want to make it clear that I totally support Obama.

But I disagree on the drilling and the FISA vote.

I understand he thinks he must do it, but I can express disapproval while still thinking he is a great candidate under pressure from a very nasty old man who is jealous of the attention Obama is getting.

[blonndee]

39. Guess I'll be calling Sen. Bingaman on Monday.

[IDemo]

44. Suggesting that we can drill our way out of this crisis

is not so different from finding a leak at a public swimming pool and asking everybody to pee in the water to keep the level up. It won't make a tad bit of difference to global production until global production has declined by nearly 50%, and it will foul the environment.

But it offers people the illusion of relief, which is really all the pukes need.

[ProgressIn2008]

45. Gore compares offshore drilling to invasion of Iraq

Cognitive dissonance, mayhap?


Gore compares offshore drilling to invasion of Iraq

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0708/Gore_compares_offshore_drilling_to_invasion_of_Iraq.html


Gore Urges Lawmakers to Resist Lifting Offshore Drilling Ban

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/07/17/gore-urges-lawmakers-to-resist-lifting-offshore-drilling-ban/


What are we fighting for, again?

[Evergreen Emerald]

46. Democrats are acting the same way they always have: CAVE

Disgusting.

[rucky]

47. We should be using drilling as a major bargaining chip...

for the comprehensive energy plan that focuses on renewables.

[OnionPatch]

49. Isn't that what he said he was doing?

That's the idea I got when I read the article. :shrug:

[Sancho]

50. Supporting drilling could cost Obama a close election in Florida...

remember Nader and the greenies? This is a very bad move for Obama and Nelson. Even Pelosi put a stop for it (thank goodness).

For now!


:grr:

[MissPuddy]

74. Obama needs to stop diluting his message and pandering to the right

Between the voting for the FISA (immunity to telecoms) and backpeddling on Iraq, drilling, etc....Obama is doing what Kerry did and LOST...flip-flopping! People respect a person who can take a stand and not bow down to corporations.

[depakid]

52. I can't think of a single issue that the Democratic Congress wouldn't sell out

There's a reason why they've earned single digit approval ratings...

[Enrique]

55. how about Social Security

they beat Bush's privitization scheme when they were in the minority.

[depakid]

57. You're right- that is one.

Though it was for years and years deemed untouchable by both parties.

[Enrique]

54. a very important democrat is fighting it

go Nancy! :bounce:

[Dubiosus]

58. feel so sorry for you all!!!

:grouphug:

and welcome to reality. Who buys in the official story is able to swallow anything...

[cyberpj]

59. If only this country still had an unbiased media to tell it's citizens the truth !

Oh well.
And so Dems will continue to bow down to whatever the Republican military industrial complex is selling to the public.

[Major Hogwash]

60. These are NOT new leases for oil drilling, these are on leases they already have!

Sorry to bring this up, but the off-shore drilling that Obama supports are for leases on property they already have, but they have not used to drill there yet.

[madfloridian]

61. Not the new plan....it strips nearly all bans on the drilling.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2438

[Major Hogwash]

63. Obama does NOT support any new oil leases. He said so himself.

In his speech yesterday.

[madfloridian]

65. I gave you the link where he says he supports the Gang of 10 plan.

And that does support doing away with nearly all bans on offshore drilling.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2438

Maybe he is not aware of that part of it.

[Major Hogwash]

66. You have a link on the internet - I heard what Obama said about it. Nuff said.

Maybe you should spend more time listening to what the Democratic candidate has to say about this rather than hunting up shit on the internet.

[madfloridian]

67. He said he supported the plan put forth by the 10 senators.

Sorry you feel that way about what I post. I gave you a very clear definite link..

That plan would allow drilling off both FL coasts as close as 50 miles, and it would allow the other states to go that close.

Get mad at me, but I think we need to speak out when things like this happen.

[Major Hogwash]

68. No, Obama didn't say that in his speech on Friday. Some of his speech was even carried live on CNN.

And Obama did not say one word about "the plan".

I'm not mad at for you for posting here, However, I think you should get your facts straight when you do post here, though. You provided links from basically right-wing newspapers.

So, who am I going to believe, Obama or those right-wing newspaper articles?
That's all there is to it.

[madfloridian]

70. Then your gripe is with the Obama campaign and The Ledger.

Talk to them. Use the contact page www.theledger.com

[madfloridian]

71. Oh, and thank you for not being mad at me for posting here.

My facts are straight.

I resent your saying that.

[nomaco-10]

62. Pelosi DEMS turned off the lights and mics today

in the House to stop the repubs from grandstanding their BULLSHIT off shore oil driliing bill.

Even pelosi gets it right every now and again.

I am so tired of this poster's knocking of all dems.

Every once in a while WE DO GET IT RIGHT!

[Dubiosus]

69. hopefully

and you surely know where the politisians get their manna from, do you?

It's all frickin' theater. Here and elsewhere. What makes me angry the most

is this childish believe in others. Your saviour smells the same way our does.

In my country a lot of people just gave up critical thinking, are hailing her.

And they begin to separate bad things and decisions from here and blame

the minister of the interior. She isn't at home when bullshit is cooking.

But she is his boss and does not take the responsibility. Just to explain

how it probably will go on for you. There was a saying in Germ. under H.

Every time when something very disturbing of political or what so ever nature

happened, people were sighing: "If only the F. knew this!!"

Same shit happened in Russia with S*. They praised their own slaughter.

So keep your hopes down and start thinking.....



:evilgrin:



By the way! Birth is not the beginning and death is not the end, my friend!

[MissPuddy]

75. Republicans are using drilling scare tactics to sway the election...sound familiar?

The last election they used the mantra "Would you rather we fight over there than here?" and now it is "We need to drill in the Gulf to bring the cost of oil down. Democrats are providing the hurdles."

The oil corporations are controlling our whole economy. There needs to be controls! Heck! They put controls on Bill Gates and Microsoft for being a "monopoly." This is capitalism OUT OF CONTROL!

The oil companies have the vulnerable American public by the balls and they are willing to give everything away! We saw this after 9-11 when the Patriot Act passed with flying colors.

PEOPLE! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE "STANK" COFFEE!!