I really like Joe Biden ...... but there's that ..........

[Stinky The Clown]

....... plagiarism thing. The repubicans are not averse to any smear they can muster. All things being equal, I think Biden would have made a good president either time he ran and he'd certainly make not only a good veep for real life, but a great attack dog for the campaign.

But that plagiarism thing ..... I dunno.

Biden supporters, if you must flame, have at it, but the issue is what it is. It was when Dukakis's team hit him with it, and it remains unfair and wrong today. But that never stopped anyone before. Plus there is enough long standing mythology around it that we simply don't need to go there.

[PresidentObama]

1. Every possible VP pick has issues we must face, but Biden is a strong pick.

[appal_jack]

2. There's that bankruptcy-bill-thing too

Having a veep candidate who is up to his ears in credit card company largess at a time when Americans are facing bankruptcy is not my idea of a winning ticket.

And then there is that drug war thing. America needs a new strategy of harm reduction and decriminalization. Obama may push his through, but his odds are lower if he ties himself to a drug-warrior like Biden.

my $.02

-app

[tishaLA]

7. also my concern

I think something 20 years ago is a pretty weak charge. The bankruptcy bill? Not so much.

[Think82]

9. thats a delaware thing... plus...

... as veep he wouldn't be beholden. Biden's record for the long term is solidly pro-labor. Also, I heard Biden worked an amendment into that legislation (which he did NOT sponsor and was going to pass anyway) that helped out single Moms.

[Overseas]

63. Glad to hear it. /nt

[mcjackson]

20. I don't buy...

...this one bit. If he's so "up to his ears in credit card company largess" why did he have to mortgage his home to send his daughter to college? He's already known as one of the least paid senators on the hill.

[Debi]

28. Don't go letting reality intefere with the garbage posted around here

Wait for the 'D.C. insider' stuff to show up as well (even though the man has never lived in or around D.C. and takes the train home to his wife every day after work).

[appal_jack]

102. opposing tyranny is not 'garbage'

When Joe Biden gains some sense of he tragedy that is the Drug War / Prison-Industrial Complex, he will gain my (increased) respect.

As he stands now, I would have a hard time voting for him in any capacity, even though I recognize that he is an exceptionally intelligent and dedicated Senator. Yes, fundamental liberties ARE that important to me. No, I don't feel like compromising about such a core principles as our 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10th, 14th, and 15th Amendment rights (all of which the Drug War / Prison-Industrial Complex tramples).

-app

[Muttocracy]

103. Doubt this will make you feel any better, but he is willing to admit mistakes on drug policy:

It is probably just fixing a detail to you, but at least he is willing to admit when the law has been wrong:

http://biden.senate.gov/press/press_releases/release/?id=cfcebb09-68ec-4f6a-8450-e2c9639bd29e

BIDEN Calls for an End to Crack/Powder Cocaine Sentencing Disparity

February 12, 2008

BIDEN Legislation to Completely Eliminate the Unjust 100-to-1 Crack/Powder Sentencing Structure and Replace with 1-to-1 System

...

Sen. Biden urged his colleagues to support his legislation, S. 1711, the Drug Sentencing Reform & Cocaine Kingpin Trafficking Act, which would completely eliminate the sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine, two forms of the same drug, and it would also abolish the mandatory minimum sentence for simple possession of crack cocaine, the only drug for which there exists a mandatory minimum sentence for mere possession for a first time offender.

...

"...The current disparity in cocaine sentencing simply cannot be justified based on the facts as we know them today."
...

"...more than a dozen bills were introduced to increase the penalties for crack. Because we knew so little about it, the proposals were all over the map, ranging from the Reagan Administration's proposal of a 20-to-1 disparity to Senator Chiles' proposal of a 1000-to-1. Senators Byrd, Dole and I led the effort to enact the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 which established the current 100-to-1 disparity. Our intentions were good, but much of our information was bad. Each of the myths upon which we based the sentencing disparity has since been dispelled or altered."

...

"The past 21 years has also revealed that the dramatically harsher crack penalties have disproportionately impacted the African American community: 82% of those convicted of crack offenses in 2006 were African American.

"With the starting premises now debunked, last June I introduced the Drug Sentencing Reform & Cocaine Kingpin Trafficking Act, which eliminates the disparity between crack and powder offenses. It does so without raising penalties for powder because there is not a shred of evidence that shows powder penalties are inadequate.

"My bill also eliminates the five-year mandatory minimum sentence for simple possession of crack, the only mandatory minimum for possession of a controlled substance.

"It focuses federal resources where we need them most—on major drug kingpins, not users and low-level dealers. It provides sentencing enhancements for all drug offenses that involve a dangerous weapon or violence.

"And it provides $30 million in grants to state and local governments to fund programs that improve the availability of drug treatment for offenders in prisons, jails, juvenile facilities, and those on supervised release.

[Muttocracy]

107. similar link - Second Chance Act

BIDEN’s Second Chance Act Signed Into Law

New Law Will Help Prevent Ex-Offenders from Becoming Repeat Offenders

April 9, 2008

Washington, DC – This morning, the President signed into law U.S. Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr.’s (D-DE) Reducing Recidivism and Second Chance Act of 2007 (H.R. 1593), legislation designed to reduce the number of convicted felons who become repeat offenders. The Second Chance Act will help make communities safer and ensure that former offenders successfully transition back into society by providing states and nonprofit prisoner-reentry organizations funding for ex-offenders to get job training, literacy training, substance-abuse treatment, counseling, education, housing and mentoring services upon release.

“Our current system is broken,” said Sen. Biden, Chairman of Senate Judiciary Committee on Crime and Drugs. “Unfortunately, many ex-offenders return to prison over and over again – the door is often a revolving one. The only way to close it, is to open another one. That’s what this legislation does.”

continues at http://biden.senate.gov/press/press_releases/release/?id=ac09fd32-edc9-494b-aa2d-f7c3534046eb

Floor Statement from March:
http://biden.senate.gov/press/press_releases/release/?id=538f7ce0-c733-4d82-aa48-39ab70019be1

[SallyMander]

116. ...

:loveya:

[appal_jack]

72. a poor choice of words on my part

I honestly don't know whether Biden has ever accepted $$$ (or how much even if he did) from the credit card companies.

But his behavior sure seems to indicate that he is their paid employee.

Even so, it's the drug-war cheer leading that I dislike him the most for. It's long past time to end this unconstitutional madness and restore liberty for citizens and compassionate medical care for addicts.

-app

[Muttocracy]

104. Trying to find the data on campaign contributions he's gotten

This is all sorted by total Career (not sure if that's all the way back to 1972 or if their records start with 1998). Sorry the formatting is goofy - easier to read in the real tables at the link.

http://opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=Career&cid=N00001669

Top contributors

MBNA Corp $214,050
Pachulski, Stang et al $195,375
Young, Conaway et al $172,779
Law Office of Peter Angelos $156,250
Simmons Cooper LLC $146,600
Kreindler & Kreindler $120,252
Skadden, Arps et al $110,975
Baron & Budd $108,050
Weil, Gotshal & Manges $104,100
Weitz & Luxenberg $95,650
Comcast Corp $83,000
Thornton & Naumes $78,600
Girardi & Keese $75,800
Saul Ewing LLP $73,385
Adler Group $71,450
Bank of America $70,200
Blank Rome LLP $68,150
Richards, Layton & Finger $67,800
Reaud, Morgan & Quinn $63,700
Cozen & O'Connor $62,386

http://opensecrets.org/politicians/industries.php?cycle=Career&cid=N00001669

Top Industries

Industry Total

Lawyers/Law Firms $6,551,504
Real Estate $1,288,280
Retired $1,037,158
Securities & Investment $863,025
Misc Finance $547,170
Business Services $493,634
Health Professionals $451,025
Pro-Israel $411,700
TV/Movies/Music $385,612
Lobbyists $337,835
Misc Business $305,451
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $298,089
Finance/Credit Companies $297,150
Commercial Banks $283,325
Education $277,675
Insurance $238,150
Democratic/Liberal $205,530
General Contractors $186,400
Retail Sales $184,100
Civil Servants/Public Officials $162,100

same link

Top Sectors

Sector Total PACs Indivs

Agribusiness $166,100 $2,000 $164,100
Communic/Electronics $791,663 $104,133 $687,530
Construction $439,825 $8,000 $431,825
Defense $18,375 $3,000 $15,375
Energy/Nat Resource $154,820 $15,250 $139,570
Finance/Insur/RealEst $3,677,345 $133,050 $3,544,295
Health $692,975 $26,000 $666,975
Lawyers & Lobbyists $6,889,339 $74,242 $6,815,097
Transportation $223,245 $10,875 $212,370
Misc Business $1,776,015 $20,966 $1,755,049
Labor $352,749 $348,249 $4,500
Ideology/Single-Issue $788,708 $182,003 $606,705
Other $1,568,576 $1,000 $1,567,576


edit to add - FEC page I've found so far:
http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/can_detail/P80000722

[elleng]

115. Thanks, JoeIs;

good work.

[frogcycle]

113. ok, so you got shot down

on a "poor choice of words" (how about a groundless, ignorant, bullshit bigoted lie?) so all of a sudden you are REALLY upset over his "drug-war cheerleading".

We have a weak candidate for president who, if he DOES win, needs all the help he can get to try to fix this mess. You want to find this or that to hold against the strongest prospect for actually accomplishing anything, for not having the pugs come waltzing back in after another carter debacle of an administration. But you want to play fucking American Idol.

How about you just go crawl back under your rock?

[frogcycle]

112. please document the "up to his ears in largess" claim

[Blackhatjack]

3. Biden had to know the future implications when he folded tent and withdrew...

He should have admitted a mistake and stayed in the race so that he could salvage what was left of his reputation by moving on and discussing other issues important to him and the people.

I always thought the way he bowed out kinda sealed the issue of running for President for him.

If he were the nominee you can bet this will be played continuously by Repubs and their media monkeys.

[Think82]

8. He had to get back to the judiciary committee and keep Robert Bork off the supreme court

which he DID. Don't forget, he was chairman of the committee while he was running, and Reagan nominated bork who would have been DISASTROUS for the court. Biden was able to keep him from getting confirmed.

Also, Biden was suffering from acute migraines at the time which he would find out later was a near-fatal brain aneurysm.

Tough enough for ya?

[Debi]

24. And of course nobody mentions that the other 137 times he gave that SAME stump speech

he DID credit Kinnock. x(

[Blackhatjack]

110. I like Biden ... I just think he handled the matter badly, which has long term implications now...

Biden has a history of gaffes that have been preserved on videotape for future use by his opponents. This is just one.

However, my post was an observation that he followed advice to withdraw without much of a fight, and that does has future implications for someone who wants to be President or Vice President in the future.

Nothing I posted challenged his 'toughness.'

Biden also has a record of accomplishments of which he can rightfully be proud.

[NashVegas]

4. I Forgave Him That ... It Was 20 Years Ago

If Obama could overcome plagiarism charges from this spring, surely people could get past Joe's use from the '88 campaign.

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. Sheeeezzz. We just twice elected as VEEP a guy who shot....

.... another guy in the face ( after drinking) and covered-up the circumstances when the law came by.

Y A W N.

You're worried that ( 20 years ago!!) Biden failed to credit sections of a speech ( that he had publicly attributed to it's author on four previous occassions).

He's got some liabilities but this isn't a biggie. Whoever is nominated will be savaged by the opposition and their allies in $$$ media.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Will you yawn when the three monkey media spend two weeks non stop talking abut it?

I could care less *when* it happened or *what* the facts are. There really is a whole mythology around it. This would play very well in the moron community and among the willfully ignorant.

[saltpoint]

10. Agree that the media are jackals and hyenas but also feel that

we have to approach our blue team up and down the ballot as being above the fray.

Biden brings more to the plus column IMO than he represents shortcomings in the minus column, so we could very persuasively trade the Amtrak-to-work point against the decades-old plagiarism charge, and I think we win on points.

I'd prefer that Biden have voted differently on the Bankruptcy bill but nationwide, a Catholic on the ticket broadsides that issue in several key swing districts in Ohio and Pennslvania. Biden not only Catholic, but a tough, smart Catholic. No Senator who's served as long as he has can have a voting record that's palatable to every demographic.

I like him also because he isn't afraid of the Republicans. I think he'd be deeply loyal to Obama's agenda and hew very closely to the goals Obama lays down.

I could see the very thing you suggest happening, of course - the media tring to dig at Biden on the plagiarism story -- but could also see Biden whipping around on the hapless dicktucks at ABC or FOX and reminding them that he apologized for that lapse of judgment but that "Your network, sir, has never apologized for assisting Goerge W. Bush by covering up the lies and failing to investigate the rationale for the war in Iraq. I believe you owe your viewers -- and notably the friends and family of over 4,000 American kids -- the courtesy of the respect of an apology."

[PatSeg]

11. "dicktucks at ABC or FOX"????

I don't think I've ever heard they called that before, but I sure do like the way it rolls off the tongue!!!

The McCain campaign will find something wrong with anyone Obama chooses. The plagiarism thing is ancient history and compared to political blunders we've seen this year, it is pretty mild. The man forgot one time to credit his source and the Dukakis campaign jumped all over him for which they apologized later. Meanwhile, Biden worked night and day to block the appointment of Bork to the Supreme Court, but somehow the "plagiarism thing" seems to overshadow that. It is amazing that any decent people stay in politics.

[saltpoint]

12. Hey there. Good to see ya knockin' around the boards.

Yep. The OP is right that the media is going to dig into its dark bag of mischeif.

But we can hit 'em back real hard with actual facts -- something they've not been entirely used to under Bush!

[PatSeg]

13. Good to see you too

Of course, they'll do some digging. No one is immune, so we might as well just suck it up and be prepared. We've come this far, no turning back now. I'll sure be glad when this is all over though.

What an unusual and extraordinary time to be alive.

[saltpoint]

14. Very nicely put.

We're better positioned this time than in a long time.

Agree completely that the media and the Rove-types will be monkeying with the works, but sometimes History just steamrolls all comers.

I think it's a blue year!

[PatSeg]

58. The problem I see for the republicans

is they keeping doing the same things over and over again just because they worked in the past. They seem to have run out of tricks and haven't figured out that most people aren't buying what they're selling anymore.

It looks like a blue year to me too.

[Debi]

26. That photo is incredible

:hi:

[PatSeg]

38. Thanks

I just found it browsing at Biden's Flicker page. It really grabbed me.

[H2O Man]

15. I like Biden.

The "plagiarism thing" is as important to me as his behavior when President Carter wanted Ted Sorensen to head the CIA. But, in recent years, I think he has shown himself to be a more mature politician.

[Eurobabe]

16. Let's stick to the important issues, the 'plagiarism' thing is about

as important as how Obama's low BMI might turn off overweight voters. Joe's paid his dues on what happened 20 years ago. :eyes:

Joe Biden on Abortion

* No public funding for abortion; it imposes a view. (Apr 2007)
* Supports partial-birth abortion ban, but not undoing Roe. (Apr 2007)
* Accepts Catholic church view that life begins at conception. (Apr 2007)
* Nominees should agree on constitutional right to privacy. (Apr 2007)
* Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
* Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
* Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
* Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
* Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
* Voted NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
* Voted NO on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
* Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
* Voted NO on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
* Rated 36% by NARAL, indicating a mixed voting record on abortion. (Dec 2003)
* Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
* Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
* Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)

Joe Biden on Budget & Economy

* Balancing budget is about priorities; GOP made wrong choices. (Dec 2007)
* Save Pentagon spending by getting the troops out of Iraq. (Dec 2007)
* More transparency for hedge funds and private equity funds. (Aug 2007)
* Invest in new programs by ending war & eliminating tax cuts. (Apr 2007)
* Voted NO on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)
* Voted NO on prioritizing national debt reduction below tax cuts. (Apr 2000)
* Voted YES on 1998 GOP budget. (May 1997)
* Voted YES on Balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (Mar 1997)

Joe Biden on Civil Rights


* 1978: opposed busing except for gov't-intended segregation. (Jul 2007)
* 1968: Wilmington riots failed at conversation between races. (Jul 2007)
* Nobody asks if you're gay in a foxhole. (Jun 2007)
* Civil unions ok; gay marriage is probably inevitable. (Apr 2007)
* Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
* Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
* Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
* Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
* Voted YES on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
* Voted YES on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
* Voted NO on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)
* Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
* Voted YES on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
* Voted NO on Amendment to prohibit flag burning. (Dec 1995)
* Voted NO on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds. (Jul 1995)
* Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
* Issue a commemorative postage stamp of Rosa Parks. (Dec 2005)
* Rated 78% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
* Rated 100% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
* Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)

Joe Biden on Corporations

* We've yielded to corporate America on trade. (Dec 2007)
* Take burden off corporations so jobs stay in US. (Jun 2007)
* Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore. (Mar 2005)
* Voted YES on reforming bankruptcy to include means-testing & restrictions. (Mar 2005)
* Voted YES on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy. (Jul 2001)
* Rated 32% by the US COC, indicating an anti-business voting record. (Dec 2003)

Joe Biden on Crime

* Bush is impediment to hate crimes legislation. (Dec 2007)
* Biden Law of 1994 created several new capital offenses. (Nov 2007)
* Supports sentencing guidelines to put away violent criminals. (Jul 2007)
* Authored the Clinton crime bill & 100,000 cops on the street. (Jul 2007)
* Authored crime bill to put 100,000 cops on street. (Jul 2007)
* Voted YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program. (Mar 2007)
* Voted YES on $1.15 billion per year to continue the COPS program. (May 1999)
* Voted NO on limiting death penalty appeals. (Apr 1996)
* Voted NO on limiting product liability punitive damage awards. (Mar 1996)
* Voted NO on restricting class-action lawsuits. (Dec 1995)
* Voted NO on repealing federal speed limits. (Jun 1995)
* Voted NO on mandatory prison terms for crimes involving firearms. (May 1994)
* Voted NO on rejecting racial statistics in death penalty appeals. (May 1994)
* Rated 71% by CURE, indicating pro-rehabilitation crime votes. (Dec 2000)
* More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes. (Apr 2001)
* Rated 75% by the NCJA, indicating a mixed record on criminal justice. (Dec 2005)
* Establish an FBI registry of sexual offendors. (Oct 1996)

Joe Biden on Drugs

* Took lead on drug policy & narcotics control. (Nov 2007)
* National ban on smoking would reduce chronic illnesses. (Sep 2007)
* Absolutely do not lower drinking age from 21. (Sep 2007)
* FactCheck: 40,000 babies with alcohol syndrome, not 300,000. (Sep 2007)
* Increase penalties for dealing drugs near schools. (Sep 2007)
* Most violent crime is related to drugs. (Jul 2007)
* Divert drug offenders out of prison system. (Jun 2007)
* Created nation's Drug Czar Office & drug courts. (Dec 2006)
* Voted NO on increasing penalties for drug offenses. (Nov 1999)
* Voted YES on spending international development funds on drug control. (Jul 1996)

Joe Biden on Education

* Hire more teachers and pay them for smaller classes. (Dec 2007)
* Laid out a $30 billion plan over five years for education. (Nov 2007)
* For longer school day & school year, & 16-year minimum. (Oct 2007)
* $3000 tax credit for college for anyone earning under $150K. (Sep 2007)
* There needs to be performance-based pay for teachers. (Aug 2007)
* Teach sex ed in schools; including prevention methods. (Aug 2007)
* Sent kids to private school after death of their mother. (Jul 2007)
* Overcome racial achievement gap with early education. (Jun 2007)
* Pay teachers more to get better educational results. (Apr 2007)
* FactCheck: Japan pays teachers more, but not India & China. (Apr 2007)
* NCLB needs more resources, but also is fundamentally flawed. (Feb 2007)
* Princeton was last Ivy holdout to admit women & minorities. (Jan 2006)
Voting Record
* Voting for No Child Left Behind was a mistake. (Jul 2007)
* Voted YES on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
* Voted YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
* Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
* Voted YES on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
* Voted YES on funding student testing instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
* Voted YES on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction. (Apr 2001)
* Voted YES on Educational Savings Accounts. (Mar 2000)
* Voted YES on education savings accounts. (Jun 1998)
* Voted NO on school vouchers in DC. (Sep 1997)
* Voted YES on $75M for abstinence education. (Jul 1996)
* Voted NO on requiring schools to allow voluntary prayer. (Jul 1994)
* Voted YES on national education standards. (Feb 1994)
* Rated 91% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes. (Dec 2003)

Joe Biden on Energy & Oil

* The energy challenge take sacrifice and is a moral crusade. (Dec 2007)
* FactCheck: Oil did not jump $18/bbl due to Iran Resolution. (Dec 2007)
* Supports cap-and-trade for greenhouse gases. (Nov 2007)
* Provide for emergency fuel assistance immediately. (Oct 2007)
* Make every automobile sold be a flex-fuel automobile. (Apr 2007)
* Voted YES on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. (Jun 2008)
* Voted YES on addressing CO2 emissions without considering India & China. (May 2008)
* Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jun 2007)
* Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning. (May 2007)
* Voted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
* Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
* Voted YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
* Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
* Voted YES on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
* Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
* Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 2003)
* Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
* Voted NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)
* Voted NO on preserving budget for ANWR oil drilling. (Apr 2000)
* Voted NO on ending discussion of CAFE fuel efficiency standards. (Sep 1999)
* Voted NO on defunding renewable and solar energy. (Jun 1999)
* Voted NO on approving a nuclear waste repository. (Apr 1997)
* Voted NO on do not require ethanol in gasoline. (Aug 1994)
* Keep efficient air conditioner rule to conserve energy. (Mar 2004)
* Establish greenhouse gas tradeable allowances. (Feb 2005)
* Sponsored bill raising CAFE by a 4% per year until 2018. (Jul 2006)
* Rated 83% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence. (Dec 2006)
* Designate sensitive ANWR area as protected wilderness. (Nov 2007)

Joe Biden on Environment

* America should guarantee Katrina reconstruction. (Jun 2007)
* Take away the billions of subsidy to the oil companies. (Jun 2007)
* Scored 80% on Humane Society Scorecard on animal protection. (Jan 2007)
* Voted YES on including oil & gas smokestacks in mercury regulations. (Sep 2005)
* Voted NO on confirming Gale Norton as Secretary of Interior. (Jan 2001)
* Voted NO on more funding for forest roads and fish habitat. (Sep 1999)
* Voted YES on transportation demo projects. (Mar 1998)
* Voted YES on reducing funds for road-building in National Forests. (Sep 1997)
* Voted YES on continuing desert protection in California. (Oct 1994)
* Voted YES on requiring EPA risk assessments. (May 1994)
* End commercial whaling and illegal trade in whale meat. (Jun 2001)
* Rated 95% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes. (Dec 2003)
* EPA must do better on mercury clean-up. (Apr 2004)
* Strengthen prohibitions against animal fighting. (Jan 2007)

Joe Biden on Families & Children

* Fought for Family and Medical Leave, up to 12 unpaid weeks. (Sep 2007)
* 1990: authored the Violence Against Women Act. (Jul 2007)
* Voted NO on killing restrictions on violent videos to minors. (May 1999)
* Rated 16% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-family voting record. (Dec 2003)
* Fund 2,500 Boys and Girls Clubs in underserved areas. (Dec 1997)

Joe Biden on Foreign Policy


* Doctrine of crisis prevention, not preemption. (Dec 2007)
* Hold China accountable; it's capitulation, not competition. (Dec 2007)
* Move from a Musharraf policy to a Pakistan policy. (Nov 2007)
* Pakistani elections will be a sham if emergency not lifted. (Nov 2007)
* Pakistan is potentially most dangerous country in the world. (Aug 2007)
* China holds the mortgage on our house, to pay for war. (Aug 2007)
* American troops on the ground in Darfur now. (Jul 2007)
* US troops on ground in Sudan to end Darfur carnage. (Jun 2007)
* Biggest threat to US is from North Korea, Iran, & Russia. (Apr 2007)
* Voted YES on enlarging NATO to include Eastern Europe. (May 2002)
* Voted YES on killing a bill for trade sanctions if China sells weapons. (Sep 2000)
* Voted NO on cap foreign aid at only $12.7 billion. (Oct 1999)
* Voted NO on limiting the President's power to impose economic sanctions. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on limiting NATO expansion to only Poland, Hungary & Czech. (Apr 1998)
* Voted YES on $17.9 billion to IMF. (Mar 1998)
* Voted YES on Strengthening of the trade embargo against Cuba. (Mar 1996)
* Voted YES on ending Vietnam embargo. (Jan 1994)
* Multi-year commitment to Africa for food & medicine. (Apr 2001)
* Impose sanctions and an import ban on Burma. (Oct 2007)
* Acknowledge the Armenian Genocide of the early 1900s. (Mar 2007)
* Urge Venezuela to re-open dissident radio & TV stations. (May 2007)

Joe Biden on Free Trade


* No to tariffs; just enforce the law. (Dec 2007)
* Built environmental and labor standards in trade agreements. (Dec 2007)
* Toughest choice: rationalizing competition & trade policy. (Dec 2007)
* Opposes fast-track to protect labor rights. (Nov 2007)
* Shut down any imports of toys from China. (Oct 2007)
* President's job is to create jobs, not to export jobs. (Aug 2007)
* No trade agreements without workers' & environmental rights. (Jul 2007)
* Voted NO on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)
* Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)
* Voted NO on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Jul 2003)
* Voted NO on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Jul 2003)
* Voted YES on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)
* Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Oct 2001)
* Voted YES on removing common goods from national security export rules. (Sep 2001)
* Voted YES on permanent normal trade relations with China. (Sep 2000)
* Voted YES on expanding trade to the third world. (May 2000)
* Voted YES on renewing 'fast track' presidential trade authority. (Nov 1997)
* Voted YES on imposing trade sanctions on Japan for closed market. (May 1995)
* Rated 42% by CATO, indicating a mixed record on trade issues. (Dec 2002)

Joe Biden on Government Reform

* Radical change to preserve family farmers. (Dec 2007)
* Would consider a Republican for head of DHS or Pentagon. (Aug 2007)
* Pledges to stop no-bid contracts. (Aug 2007)
* 1988: led fight against nomination of Robert Bork. (Jul 2007)
* The greatest sin is abuse of power. (Jul 2007)
* Roberts & Alito have turned Supreme Court upside down. (Jul 2007)
* History of racism was keeping black Americans from voting. (Jul 2007)
* Voted YES on granting the District of Columbia a seat in Congress. (Sep 2007)
* Voted NO on requiring photo ID to vote in federal elections. (Jul 2007)
* Voted NO on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. (Mar 2006)
* Voted YES on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity. (Mar 2006)
* Voted YES on banning "soft money" contributions and restricting issue ads. (Mar 2002)
* Voted NO on require photo ID (not just signature) for voter registration. (Feb 2002)
* Voted YES on banning campaign donations from unions & corporations. (Apr 2001)
* Voted YES on funding for National Endowment for the Arts. (Aug 1999)
* Voted YES on favoring 1997 McCain-Feingold overhaul of campaign finance. (Oct 1997)
* Voted YES on Approving the presidential line-item veto. (Mar 1996)
* Voted NO on banning more types of Congressional gifts. (Jul 1995)
* Establish the United States Public Service Academy. (Mar 2007)

Joe Biden on Gun Control

* Keep assault weapons ban; close gun show loophole. (Apr 2007)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
* Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
* Voted YES on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
* Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
* Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
* Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
* Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record. (Dec 2003)

Joe Biden on Health Care

* Modernize, simplify & expand health insurance. (Nov 2007)
* Help medical students find ways to finance their tuition. (Oct 2007)
* Start paying for universal coverage with $100B in redundancy. (Sep 2007)
* Rethink healthcare by focusing on prevention. (Sep 2007)
* Start with catastrophic insurance and insuring all kids. (Aug 2007)
* Got tested for AIDS after blood transfusion; no shame in it. (Jun 2007)
* Voted NO on means-testing to determine Medicare Part D premium. (Mar 2008)
* Voted NO on allowing tribal Indians to opt out of federal healthcare. (Feb 2008)
* Voted YES on adding 2 to 4 million children to SCHIP eligibility. (Nov 2007)
* Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
* Voted YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D. (Feb 2006)
* Voted YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics. (Nov 2005)
* Voted YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug. (Mar 2005)
* Voted YES on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Jun 2003)
* Voted YES on allowing reimportation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
* Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
* Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)
* Voted YES on including prescription drugs under Medicare. (Jun 2000)
* Voted NO on limiting self-employment health deduction. (Jul 1999)
* Voted YES on increasing tobacco restrictions. (Jun 1998)
* Voted NO on Medicare means-testing. (Jun 1997)
* Voted YES on blocking medical savings acounts. (Apr 1996)
* Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record. (Dec 2003)

Joe Biden on Homeland Security

* Cut $350B in military programs, from Star Wars to F-22's. (Dec 2007)
* Universal national service, in military or Peace Corps. (Dec 2007)
* Talks about nations acquiring uranium are more complicated. (Oct 2007)
* Commitment to never use torture; no part of our policy, ever. (Sep 2007)
* Don't Ask Don't Tell is antiquated & unworkable. (Aug 2007)
* Missile defense is perfect metaphor for neo-isolationism. (Jul 2007)
* Urged Pres. Bush to return to Washington on 9/11. (Jul 2007)
* Voted NO on cutting $221M in benefits to Filipinos who served in WWII US Army. (Apr 2008)
* Voted YES on requiring FISA court warrant to monitor US-to-foreign calls. (Feb 2008)
* Voted NO on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad. (Aug 2007)
* Voted YES on limiting soldiers' deployment to 12 months. (Jul 2007)
* Voted YES on implementing the 9/11 Commission report. (Mar 2007)
* Voted YES on preserving habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees. (Sep 2006)
* Voted YES on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods. (Sep 2006)
* Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act. (Mar 2006)
* Voted NO on extending the PATRIOT Act's wiretap provision. (Dec 2005)
* Voted YES on restricting business with entities linked to terrorism. (Jul 2005)
* Voted YES on restoring $565M for states' and ports' first responders. (Mar 2005)
* Voted YES on adopting the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. (Oct 1999)
* Voted YES on allowing another round of military base closures. (May 1999)
* Voted NO on cutting nuclear weapons below START levels. (May 1999)
* Voted YES on deploying National Missile Defense ASAP. (Mar 1999)
* Voted YES on military pay raise of 4.8%. (Feb 1999)
* Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex basic training. (Jun 1998)
* Voted YES on favoring 36 vetoed military projects. (Oct 1997)
* Voted YES on banning chemical weapons. (Apr 1997)
* Voted NO on considering deploying NMD, and amending ABM Treaty. (Jun 1996)
* Voted NO on 1996 Defense Appropriations. (Sep 1995)
* Rated 80% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record. (Dec 2003)
* Give higher priority to rail security. (Jul 2005)
* Restore habeas corpus for detainees in the War on Terror. (Jun 2007)
* School assistance to survivors of injured federal police. (Oct 1996)

Joe Biden on Immigration

* FactCheck: 67% of illegal aliens speak Spanish; not 40%. (Dec 2007)
* H1-B visas only for jobs Americans can't do. (Dec 2007)
* Americans will do any job if you pay them properly. (Dec 2007)
* Oppose granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. (Nov 2007)
* Sanctuary cities exist because feds can't enforce their laws. (Sep 2007)
* It's impractical to deport 14 million illegal immigrants. (Jun 2007)
* Voted for border fence, but to tackle drug trafficking. (Jun 2007)
* Voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities". (Mar 2008)
* Voted YES on comprehensive immigration reform. (Jun 2007)
* Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)
* Voted YES on eliminating the "Y" nonimmigrant guestworker program. (May 2007)
* Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
* Voted YES on establishing a Guest Worker program. (May 2006)
* Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
* Voted YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship. (May 2006)
* Voted YES on allowing more foreign workers into the US for farm work. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on visas for skilled workers. (May 1998)
* Voted NO on limit welfare for immigrants. (Jun 1997)
* Rated 8% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)

Joe Biden on Jobs

* No job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Aug 2007)
* Implement current recommendations on job safety. (Aug 2007)
* FactCheck: His AFL-CIO rating of 85% is not best of all Dems. (Aug 2007)
* Couldn't afford living at minimum wage; advocates raising it. (Jul 2007)
* Bush tries to strip away 100 years of labor progress. (Mar 2007)
* Voted YES on overriding presidential veto of Farm Bill. (Jun 2008)
* Voted NO on terminating legal challenges to English-only job rules. (Mar 2008)
* Voted YES on restricting employer interference in union organizing. (Jun 2007)
* Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Feb 2007)
* Voted YES on raising the minimum wage to $7.25 rather than $6.25. (Mar 2005)
* Voted NO on repealing Clinton's ergonomic rules on repetitive stress. (Mar 2001)
* Voted NO on killing an increase in the minimum wage. (Nov 1999)
* Voted NO on allowing workers to choose between overtime & comp-time. (May 1997)
* Voted YES on replacing farm price supports. (Feb 1996)
* Protect overtime pay protections. (Jun 2003)
* Rated 100% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record. (Dec 2003)
* Allow an Air Traffic Controller's Union. (Jan 2006)

Joe Biden on Principles & Values

* Focus on Iraq, ending torture, healthcare, and education. (Dec 2007)
* Insulted Indian-Americans in attempt to compliment vibrancy. (Nov 2007)
* Giuliani is truly not qualified to be president. (Oct 2007)
* MoveOn.org has not changed politics. (Sep 2007)
* Prayer gives you strength, but doesn't prevent crises. (Aug 2007)
* Most decisive moment: engaging in civil rights movement. (Aug 2007)
* Next president has no margin of error, post-Bush. (Aug 2007)
* Politics is a noble calling. (Jul 2007)
* Childhood stuttering strengthened me. (Jul 2007)
* 1970: won first election, to County Council, in GOP district. (Jul 2007)
* 1972: beat GOP incumbent; 2nd youngest Senator ever elected. (Jul 2007)
* 1972: Wife & child killed in pre-inauguration auto accident. (Jul 2007)
* Allow women to choose, but no federal funding. (Jul 2007)
* Remarried in 1977, willing to give up Senate for Jill. (Jul 2007)
* 1988: Presidential run intended as base-building for 1992. (Jul 2007)
* 1988: plagiarized law school paper, but not malevolently. (Jul 2007)
* 1988: suffered aneurysm requiring brain surgery. (Jul 2007)
* Religion informs my values; my reason dictates outcomes. (Jul 2007)
* His book "Promises to Keep" written before presidential race. (Jul 2007)
* Apologized for saying Barack Obama was clean and articulate. (Apr 2007)
* Embellishment forced withdrawal from 1988 presidential race. (Apr 2007)
* Biggest mistake was thinking he could work with George Bush. (Apr 2007)
* Knocked out of 1988 race due to plagiarizing a speech. (Oct 2005)
* Plans to seek presidential nomination in 2008. (Jun 2005)
* Voted NO on confirming Samuel Alito as Supreme Court Justice. (Jan 2006)
* Voted NO on confirming John Roberts for Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. (Sep 2005)
* Religious affiliation: Catholic. (Nov 2000)
* Rated 100% by the AU, indicating support of church-state separation. (Dec 2006)

Joe Biden on Social Security

* Raise the $97,500 cap, but don't raise retirement age. (Sep 2007)
* Prevent senior fraud by educating seniors about caution. (Nov 2002)
* Voted NO on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt. (Apr 1999)
* Voted YES on allowing Roth IRAs for retirees. (May 1998)
* Voted NO on allowing personal retirement accounts. (Apr 1998)
* Voted YES on deducting Social Security payments on income taxes. (May 1996)
* Rated 89% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record. (Dec 2003)

Joe Biden on Tax Reform

* Save $150 billion in tax cuts for people who don't need them. (Dec 2007)
* Take away $85B in annual tax cuts for 1% of top earners. (Jul 2007)
* FactCheck: Top 1% only got $67B in 2007 tax cuts, not $85B. (Jul 2007)
* Eliminate the tax cut just for those people in the top 1%. (Mar 2007)
* Voted YES on increasing tax rate for people earning over $1 million. (Mar 2008)
* Voted NO on allowing AMT reduction without budget offset. (Mar 2008)
* Voted NO on raising the Death Tax exemption to $5M from $1M. (Feb 2008)
* Voted NO on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax. (Mar 2007)
* Voted NO on raising estate tax exemption to $5 million. (Mar 2007)
* Voted NO on supporting permanence of estate tax cuts. (Aug 2006)
* Voted NO on permanently repealing the `death tax`. (Jun 2006)
* Voted YES on $47B for military by repealing capital gains tax cut. (Feb 2006)
* Voted NO on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains & dividends. (Feb 2006)
* Voted NO on extending the tax cuts on capital gains and dividends. (Nov 2005)
* Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. (May 2003)
* Voted YES on reducing marriage penalty instead of cutting top tax rates. (May 2001)
* Voted YES on increasing tax deductions for college tuition. (May 2001)
* Voted YES on eliminating the 'marriage penalty'. (Jul 2000)
* Voted NO on across-the-board spending cut. (Oct 1999)
* Voted NO on requiring super-majority for raising taxes. (Apr 1998)
* Rated 15% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes. (Dec 2003)
* Rated 100% by the CTJ, indicating support of progressive taxation. (Dec 2006)

Joe Biden on Technology

* Proposed $980M for tunnel repair; others have dropped ball. (Aug 2007)
* Voted NO on restoring $550M in funding for Amtrak for 2007. (Mar 2006)
* Voted YES on disallowing FCC approval of larger media conglomerates. (Sep 2003)
* Voted YES on Internet sales tax moratorium. (Oct 1998)
* Voted YES on telecomm deregulation. (Feb 1996)


Joe Biden on War & Peace


* Accept NIE conclusion that Iran stopped nukes in 2003. (Dec 2007)
* Muslims don't like us because they do not trust us. (Dec 2007)
* Iraq war is sucking up a $150B a year. (Dec 2007)
* Strong US intervention in trouble spots around the world. (Nov 2007)
* Post-colonial countries like Iraq need federal system. (Nov 2007)
* A military action resolution on Iran is a bad policy. (Oct 2007)
* Troops out by 2013 if no political reconciliation. (Sep 2007)
* Patraeus report is wrong strategy; draw down troops now. (Sep 2007)
* Changed mind on Iraq pullout, not about political solution. (Sep 2007)
* Worth losing election to protect our troops. (Sep 2007)
* Leaving Iraq will cause generation-long regional war. (Aug 2007)
* It's already US policy to go into Pakistan to get al Qaeda. (Aug 2007)
* Bush has lied for 7 years; tell truth on Iraq. (Aug 2007)
* Voted for Iraq War resolution to avoid war in Iraq. (Jul 2007)
* 1995: pushed to lift arms embargo in Bosnia. (Jul 2007)
* 1995: pushed Clinton to bomb Serbia to free Kosovo. (Jul 2007)
* Bush invaded Iraq as the weakest of the Axis of Evil. (Jul 2007)
* End neocon fantasy of remaking Iraq in our image. (Jul 2007)
* We can't just pull out; one year to remove 160,000 troops. (Jul 2007)
* Iraqi leaders unwilling & unable to accommodate with Sunnis. (Jul 2007)
* Never de-fund a single soldier in Iraq. (Jul 2007)
* Rather lose elections than to lose troops' lives. (Jun 2007)
* Start to draw down troops immediately and all out by '08. (Jun 2007)
* Fund the safety of the troops till 67 anti-war votes reached. (Jun 2007)
* Do away with the policy of regime change for Iran. (Jun 2007)
* Start moving combat troops out of harm's way now. (Apr 2007)
* Not micromanaging war to authorize & define mission. (Apr 2007)
* Target date ok; deadline not ok; changing failed mission ok. (Apr 2007)
* Think about the decade after Iraq, not just the day after. (Apr 2007)
* There will be a residual force left in Iraq. (Apr 2007)
* In 2002 Saddam posed a threat of purchasing a nuclear bomb. (Apr 2007)
* US worse off than before Saddam because US lost credibility. (Apr 2007)
* Partitioning Iraq is inevitable, as shown by history. (Apr 2007)
* Change the fundamental premise of Iraq engagement. (Apr 2007)
* Replace pre-emption doctrine with prevention. (Apr 2007)
* Decentralize Iraqi government; local control over daily life. (Apr 2007)
* Biden-Gelb plan: UN & Muslim powers to enforce Iraq unity. (Apr 2007)
* Introduced legislation barring US Military bases in Iraq. (Apr 2007)
* Stop training thugs as the national Iraqi police force. (Apr 2007)
* Decentralize Iraq to give people control over daily lives. (Feb 2007)
* If Iraq metastasizes into regional war, it'll take decades. (Feb 2007)
Voting Record
* Regrets his war vote because Bush misused war authority. (Apr 2007)
* Vote for war allowed war only after all else failed. (Apr 2007)
* Vote for Iraq War was mistake; assumed Bush competence. (Feb 2007)
* Voted for Iraq war in 2002, but now a war critic. (Nov 2006)
* Voted NO on designating Iran's Revolutionary Guards as terrorists. (Sep 2007)
* Voted YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008. (Mar 2007)
* Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
* Voted YES on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Nov 2005)
* Voted YES on $86 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
* Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)
* Voted NO on allowing all necessary force in Kosovo. (May 1999)
* Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)
* Voted YES on ending the Bosnian arms embargo. (Jul 1995)
* Condemns anti-Muslim bigotry in name of anti-terrorism. (Oct 2001)
* Move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. (Nov 1995)

Joe Biden on Welfare & Poverty


* No faith-based initiative; it ain't broke, so don't fix it. (Oct 2007)
* We're no longer certain our kids will be better off than us. (Feb 2007)
* Voted YES on welfare block grants. (Aug 1996)
* Voted YES on eliminating block grants for food stamps. (Jul 1996)
* Voted NO on allowing state welfare waivers. (Jul 1996)
* Voted YES on welfare overhaul. (Sep 1995)
* Fully fund AmeriCorps. (Jun 2003)
* Develop a strategy to eliminate extreme global poverty. (Dec 2007)

[PassingFair]

19. "* Voted for Iraq War resolution to avoid war in Iraq. (Jul 2007)"

:rofl:

Whatever!

Looks like a traditional mixed bag.

[Eurobabe]

21. Yeah, that's the problem, there are ALOT more

"traditional mixed bags" in the Democratic party. I can think of a few others that I would rather do without. Thanks for your concern though :hi:

[jillan]

47. Biden was stopped by then majority leader Daschle from offering an amendment to the IWR

that would have put the reins on this administration.

http://wordpress.com/tag/biden-lugar-amendment/

And why did Daschle stop it?

http://www.correntewire.com/from_the_department_of_credit_where_credit_is_due

Nothing is black and white.

[malta blue]

33. Thank you so much for posting the facts

:hi:

Few voter really take the time to research the candidates.

[Stinky The Clown]

39. Your oversensitivity completely misses the point ... and none of those votes matter.

The OP wasn't abut substance. It was about what the opposition might **very easily** launch as an attack.

Thanks for the compendium, though.

[Debi]

78. The truth doesn't matter!!

:rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

82. Nope, not a bit when one has no problem with lying

As a case in point .... the Swiftboaters told no truths ..... and they mattered .... a lot.

[Debi]

84. So your DU's version of the Swiftboaters? Do you get a commission for that?

Or is it purely volunteer? :shrug:

[rox63]

17. I worry more about Biden's tendency to stick his foot in his mouth than the plagiarism charge

Biden has excellent credentials, and I think he and Obama would make a wonderful team. But can he keep from making the verbal gaffes he's famous for? I know, McLame is a walking verbal gaffe. But the media will be a whole lot harder on the Dems than they will on McLame.

That said, Biden would rightfully be on anyone's short list.

[PassingFair]

18. I think he stinks.

He showed his chauvinism overtly during the Clarence Thomas vetting,
and WHERE was he in the run-up to the Iraq Invasion?





http://makethemaccountable.com/podvin/more/050626_CluelessJoe.htm

snip>

A self-described “national security Democrat who favors a muscular foreign policy”, Biden has referred to Ronald Reagan’s 1982 Evil Empire speech as a model of internationalist wisdom. Biden justified his vote to authorize conquering Iraq by citing Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. The senator also warned of the link between Hussein and al Qaida. When these pretenses were debunked, Biden dismissed the relevance of the lies and effusively praised George W. Bush for defying anti-war critics.

Following the revelations of systematic torture at Abu Ghraib, Biden defended Bush by saying that the level of abuse was being grossly exaggerated. He emphasized that American torture is significantly more humane than the torture inflicted during the Hussein regime. He lauded Alberto Gonzales, the author of the administration memo that posited torturing prisoners is permissible under the Geneva Conventions.

[Eurobabe]

22. Oh good grief.

:eyes:

[Stinky The Clown]

35. That claptrap misses the point entirely

Truth and actual records don't matter. Only easy-to-understand-when-you're-a-moron stuff matters.

"Giving someone else's speech" is easy for morons to understand.

Nuanced votes taken over decades don't matter.

"Plagiarism" (along with all the mythology that has accrued to Biden about this over the years) is easy for morons to grasp. (<---- OP's central point)

[Debi]

23. Ha hahahahaha

:rofl:

[jillan]

25. I really like Joe Biden, but . . . .

he's already married :(

[AspenRose]

98. *snarf*

:spank: :hi:

[Muttocracy]

105. LOL! So are you!

[Eurobabe]

27. I really like Joe Biden.....but there's that......

problem that people like to bash one of our best Senators. Try picking on the Repubes. :hi:

Once again, DU EATS it's own. :eyes:

[Stinky The Clown]

31. Nobody's 'bashing'

Try taking the OP at face value instead of trying to interpret it your own way. I'm a pretty clear guy who says what he thinks straight up.

[Eurobabe]

109. Hub2Sparkly, I thought bettter of you, former Clarkie

but after reading what you've posted about Biden... :shrug: IIRC you defended Clark to the death, so allow me to defend Biden, whom I think is a smart man and good Joe.

Stop with the condescending crap.

Maybe you just have an overwhelming need to attract attention, in a negative way. I don't know and don't really care. I'm done with this thread, the last time I will kick it to the top.

Let.It.Sink.

[gateley]

29. Don't you worry your handsome little head. You don't have a say in it, so

why waste your time voicing your 'concerns'?

Either Obama will choose Biden or he won't. No matter who he chooses, we'll need to be ready to go into defense mode because we know how the Repubs fight -- dirty.

Conjecture at this point is silly, unless you want to just use it as a forum to express your dislike of Biden. If so, have at it. :eyes:

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malta blue]

34. can't we all just get along

:cry:

gately is a proud Bidenite and did not deserve that.

PLEASE?

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Neither did what was said to me .....

PLEASE?

[malta blue]

41. I must admit that I agree with gately that your post

may be construed as a forum to express dislike for Biden. If it is not so, than I apologize and I agree that no snarkiness should have been aimed at you either.

[Debi]

43. The poster has a history of making snide comments about Biden

He's just pissed he got caught.

[malta blue]

44. I see.....

Now I know why I usually hide from this forum...

:hi:

Nice to see you :pals:

[Debi]

49. Good to see you too...

I have been staying out of GD-P as well (just every once in a while I see a thread bashing Biden for wearing a red tie on a Thrusday in 1983 :wow: - gotta defend the guy).

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malta blue]

57. what are you trying to say?

:shrug:

"I really don't give a fuck.

Which, if you pay such close attention to me as you seem to (I didn't I had a groupie) ought to be really obvious to even a moron."

Oh - and it's Debi, not dedi.

[Stinky The Clown]

62. s'cuze me .....

Debi .... sorry.

:)

[Debi]

68. I believe the poor soul

has officially gone off the deep end...*sigh*

I don't care if you pay attention to me...pay attention to me...PAY ATTENTION TO ME...I DON'T CARE....:eyes:

[malta blue]

71. ...

:rofl:

Quite tragic, don't you think?

[Debi]

66. I'm not your dear

and I am capable of using google when I see a crappy passive-aggressive post.

Your history of typing crap about Biden and prefacing it with pseudo-compliments wasn't hard to find.

[Stinky The Clown]

69. For that I'm thankful

And how clever of you. You've found out about The Google. Wowie! You must be so pleased.

[Debi]

40. Acutally you have regularly posted derogatory comments about Biden on this board

So your face-value 'I like Joe Biden ... but' post is more of a 'I don't like Joe Biden' post.

Unless your previous comments about Biden, like 'blow hard' 'breezy with no 'we' in his vocabulary' and 'total and utter face-time whore', were all somehow back-handed compliments??

[Stinky The Clown]

46. Really?

And those are not legitimate views about an otherwise okay guy?

Why not?

He's prone to verbosity. Is that untrue?

He very often frames issues and makes references in the first person when it isn't about *him*. Is that untrue?

He's one of the more ..... uh ..... visible morning talk-show yakkers. Is that not true?

None of that says he's a bad guy or a bad Democrat, but it is what it is, and is pretty much an accurate representation of him.

But back to **specific** issue in the OP. Which, it seems, you avoid in favor of attacking me for saying it.

Whatever, Hoss.

[malta blue]

51. perhaps framing these impressions of Biden in the

manner in which you just did, i.e. verbose instead of 'blowhard' might allow you more freedom in your critques than calling him any type of 'whore'.

And perhaps being more respectful to your fellow DUers while disagreeing with them might be a more sensible approach.

[Stinky The Clown]

56. .

:spray:

[malta blue]

75. I'm so glad you are amused.

Because you are acting like an ass with your insults.

[Debi]

61. Yes, calling a person a 'whore' can always be seen as a legitimate view about them when they are

otherwise okay... I'll try and remember to thank anyone foolish enough to use that term when talking about me. :eyes:

Your 'issue' about Biden is a bullshit plagiarism charge drummed up by a political opponent's over-eager staff member who was fired for doing so. What is there to say about it? The same thing happened w/Obama this cycle but Obama wasn't busy serving as Chair of a committee fighting the administration over a CRAZY appointment when the charges came out and he was more prepared to fight them than Biden was in 1987.

And you obviously know nothing personal about Biden. He may use the word 'I' in his speeches (as do many many many people running for the most powerful position in American politics) but he VERY graciously gives credit for his achievements to those who worked with him and those who support him.

[Stinky The Clown]

77. Alrighty, Debi, here's the deal.

You get the last word. I'm tired of playing and have actual work to do. So say nasty things about me and get it all out.

:Redeem this coupon for a free crap on H2S's head session:

[Debi]

83. And the circle is complete

:crazy:

[gateley]

48. Well I do have SOME fucking clue about what you think about Biden:

"But the hair plugs and the still unforgotten/unforgiven plagarism thing is hanging over him. That and, well, he just doesn't wear well. "

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Husb2Sparkly/38

Biden is also called (by me) 'Breezy Joe'
He just blows with the wind.
Great speeches and then stupid votes. Ever-changing positions. And as another DUer pointed out, every one of his speeches is loaded with the pronoun 'I' .... and is very economical with the pronoun 'we'.
I've also called him Joey Wet Finger ...... for his normal habit of testing the wind direction before speaking.
He's a politician first and foremost.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2625242#2625408


I was on the phone. When I got off and unmuted the teevee, there was Sen. Hairplugz saying "......

but also have a question ........ what was Hairplugz talking about?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3108937

and my fave (really kind of sums it up, yanno?)

Biden's like that date you had in high school with the prom queen
You felt really lucky to have that date. She seemed really into you. You clicked before the movie and after that trip to the malt shoppe. She hinted several times that her parents were away for the weekend and she'd love to show you her house. You drive her home. She shows you the lawn, and the front walk. She allows you to kiss her cheek ...... and slams the door in your face.

You go home with a sore spot in yer pantz.

I don't need the pain Biden gives me.

Good talk. Too much self interest.

on edit: I heard his speech today, too. It was a good one. Kinda like those wispers in your ear from that prom queen .... yanno?


So...I have a good idea what you think about Biden. It's hard to believe you "like" someone by referring to him as Sen. Hariplugz. Doesn't exactly drip with respect. :eyes:

[Stinky The Clown]

52. And what of that is untrue?

[gateley]

60. What I find "untrue" is that you preface your post by saying

"I like Biden, but..."

I think if you liked him, you wouldn't take such glee in dissing him and referring to him as Sen. Hairplugz.

I'm fully aware of the perceptions about Biden. I had many of the same perceptions until I got to see what was under the surface.

So, it's YOUR opening statement I find untrue.

[Stinky The Clown]

67. You can 'find' it anything you wish to find it.

There are infinite points on the spectrum between love and hate.

Unless you're world is binary.

[Debi]

76. Stop the reality!!!!

:P

[jillan]

32. Heck, why stop at Biden? Let's bash all the Dems during an election year!

Ya know, Biden is up for re-election and his seat is being challenged.
So what if he is an activist for Democratic ideals? Let's tear him to shreds!!!
Oh boy! What fun!

[malta blue]

37. ...

:applause:

It is so sad.....

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Debi]

45. Why so defensive?

And why is it important to post what the right wing MIGHT say about someone who MIGHT be the VP nominee. Unless it's just a fun way to stir the shit and get attention. NOT that anyone would ever make THAT accusation :eyes:

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malta blue]

59. sounds like you are overly sensitive

[Debi]

74. Hey, you got what you wanted

:thumbsup:

[jillan]

54. I sound stupid for saying that we shouldn't be bashing Dems that are up for re-election?

Never mind the fact that he is on Obama's veep list.

:crazy:

[Stinky The Clown]

65. No, you sound stupid for globalizing a narrowly framed OP

But whatever ..... you have fun. That's why we're here! :)

[gateley]

64. It's not just what the right wing does --

you wallow in the same crap yourself -- as evidenced by your previous posts.

[DefenseLawyer]

53. I thought the plagiarism thing wasn't that big a deal at the time

He had given the same stump speech numerous times and given credit to Neil Kinnock for the section about going to college or whatever it was, and gave it once in Iowa where he didn't, Dukakis got it on video and the rest was history. But I mean it's not like he plagiarized a book or his thesis or something, it was a stupid stump speech. To me I think it would be tough to find too many people that are going to be "outraged" by something as lame as that.

[Stinky The Clown]

79. I never said there was real substance to the charge.

What I *id* say was there is still mythology around it and it is an easy "issue" (<---quotes used to denote that it is not a real issue) for the right wing to resurrect.

Was that not clear in the OP?

[DefenseLawyer]

88. Well if our standard is that the right wing will make an "issue"

Then we are basically letting them choose our candidates. They will always try to make an issue of everything. I am not only saying that the issue has no real substance, but I just don't see it getting much traction even as a manufactured "issue" by the right. "Biden gave a speech 20 years ago and didn't give credit for a line to some English guy!" Sorry, I'm just no seeing Eagleton on the couch here.

[PatSeg]

97. Good point

Republicans have been doing that kind of crap for years. It is time to turn the tables and quit letting them dictate the dialog of every campaign.

[malta blue]

70. seems to me that you are the blowhard.

:shrug:

[Stinky The Clown]

81. Go copy Debi's coupon and redeem it for yourself, too.

[malta blue]

85. wow

:rofl::rofl:

Now I am really scared for the future of DU

:scared::scared:

[Debi]

86. Yes, we must all stop picking on

the poor poster who just innocently wrote complete crap about a specific candidate and doesn't understand why the supporters of that candidate would defend him.

After we did defend our candidate we were personally attacked and in defending ourselves from those personal attacks...

We have now become the attackers...

WE are obviously the problem here!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[malta blue]

87. I'm gonna run away and eat worms

:P

This is just loco :crazy:

[Debi]

89. Yeah, but we both got coupons out of it

:rofl:

What the hell was THAT?

[malta blue]

93. a coupon to freely insult him/her.

how mature....

:rofl::rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

92. Kerry hates the troops, Gore invented the internet. Hillary's a lesbian

Obama thinks he's the messiah.

And Biden is a copy cat.

Pffffffffftttt.

We have to stop letting the media get away with this shit.

[malta blue]

94. It does not help our cause when DUers start

spewing the same trash.

[Debi]

95. It probably would have been more palatable from someone who actually liked Biden

and was 'concerned' about it.

But coming from a poster who openly dislikes Biden the comment was just a way to start a fight.

When Biden was properly and correctly defended the 'concern' dissipated and the poster turned to personal attacks.

(Remember, the same type of charged was leveled at Obama earlier this year and Dems stopped it but quick!)

We HAVE to stand up and refute garbage, defend untruths and call bullshit BULLSHIT!

(oh, and .... :rant: )

[gateley]

73. Okay - I'll respond to your OP and your OP only --

I personally don't think this would be much of an issue.

[Stinky The Clown]

80. Fair enuff

[LittleClarkie]

90. About as bogus as Kerry's botched joke

From what I understand he'd attributed the quote before, but the opposition caught him the one time he for got to attribute it.

The Republicans can to this to any Dem at any time. We need to stand up to them.

[Apollo11]

114. Not half as bad as Kerry's botched joke

Biden borrowed and adapted a couple of lines from the then leader of the British Labour Party, about the importance of ensuring that everyone has a chance of going to college, and the need for government programs to help achieve this objective.

John Kerry made at least three mistakes: deciding it would be a smart move to tell an elitist joke about the President's supposed lack of education (hello - Yale?), a joke where the punchline directly referred to Iraq where thousands of US soldiers have been killed and maimed, doing it in front of TV cameras a few days before an important national election, failing to get the words right so it was not clear who was the target of the joke. It was not just a slip-up. It was an example of very bad judgement!

Just like last year when John Kerry made a big deal to the national media about how Hillary Clinton should not be President because she voted for the IWR back in October 2002. The Senate record shows that Kerry pleaded with all his fellow Senators (for something like 45 minutes) to vote for the resolution in the interests of avoiding war!

[DevonRex]

91. That's the one thing that might stick, even if it was 20 years ago.

It's sad, too, because I really like Biden (except for that IWR vote).

I've pretty much settled on Clark as my favorite now. And mostly I'm glad I'm not the one doing the choosing.

[Debi]

96. Yeah, if only it were true n/t

[DevonRex]

99. Oh? Do tell. I confess it's not something I have looked into myself.

If it's not true then it's a horrible smear against a good man.

Thanks. Now I'll find out for myself. :)

[Debi]

100. Here's the Wiki link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_presidential_campaign%2C_1988

Which is good but doesn't tell the entire story.

As posted upthread Biden was Chair of the Judiciary Committee when RR tried to get Bork appointed to the Supreme Court and fought AND blocked that appointment, as well as dealing with excruciating pain that finally cumulated in his suffering two brain anyrusims in the spring of 1988.

[DevonRex]

101. I really appreciate that link. nt

[kurtboss]

106. His Hair Plugs Bother Me

He's a smart guy though. They should find a way to make him their number one spokesperson, along with McCaskill.

[gateley]

108. With all the jokes about the poor guy's hair plugs,

I've never been able to SEE them. (Although I did hear they're quite noticeable on HDTV.)

I'm hoping you wouldn't let something like that be the basis of your judgment of a person?

[inthebrain]

111. Given the economy and all the foreclosures

Biden is a god awful choice. The lending and credit card companies really need to be hemmed in. Folks should learn their lesson from having these oil men in office. Biden is like allowing the fix to watch over the hen house. He's the man from MBNA.

Bad choice.