Why didn't "Top Goon" keep his pilot's license?

[Carni]

Rich biz exec, who fancied himself as man about town, with a father that was Pres... bla bla bla

Why didn't herr bush have a pilot's license as a private individual after he did all those great things in the TANG?

It seems odd that he wouldn't have at least continued to carry a pilot's license after he left (literally left) the guard.

I wonder if that sucker even knew how to fly a plane!

Is there any way to check who's licensed to fly online?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Don't know

but my father in law was a Navy pilot during WWII and kept on flying after he got out of the military as a civilian and private pilot (may he rest in peace; he was killed in a plane crash)

[Carni]

3. Yeah I know most of them do!

That's what made me wonder about this!

[zeemike]

2. That is an easy one

He is scared to fly.
I think that is why he missed his flight physical, so he would not have to fly that f102.

[MisterP]

4. I recall some friends of his relating how he almost killed them

with an atrocious landing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. I think he initially qualified to fly the F-102.

But at some point he failed to show up for a flight physical, and never flew after that. Oddly, this was just after the Air Force started requiring drug tests....

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

21. He lost his Pilot status on 1 August 1972

17?Apr 1972 Approx Date GWB departs to help with Blount Senate Campaign -- In Alabama
01 Aug 1972 This was the date of the verbal order grounding GWB -- Reason: failed to perform physical
05 Sep 1972 His commanding officers write to the 187th of Alabama: "recommend (you take him)"
15 Sep 1972 Date his transfer to 187th TRG, AL ANG was approved
19 Sep 1972 Date of written order grounding GWB, suspending Pilot status

And the 187th didn't have F-102's. And the F-102 was being phased out of Bush's unit around this time.

You can find this all on lots of web sites, but I tried to make mine play like a video game. But nobody installs Adobe's viewer, bummage.

Heath

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Any info on when the Air Force started drug testing? . . . nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. It was in... wait for it.....

"In April 1972 – the same month that Bush "gave up" flying – all the overseas and stateside military services began subjecting a small random sample in their ranks to substance abuse testing for alcohol and drugs. The Pentagon had announced its intention to do so initially back on December 31, 1969. If Bush reported for his scheduled physical in August 1972, he could have been subject to selection for a random substance abuse test."

http://democrats.com/display.cfm?id=154

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

28. I think the physical he skipped was in May 1972

You can find the information that he performed his annual physicals in May on his Uniform Personel Report printed on 10 May 1973.

It would appear that he and his fellow unit member and close friend James Bath both stopped flying around 15 Apr 1973 or so.

By 24 Apr 1973, Bush was in Alabama working with the Blount campaign.

On 1 Aug 1972, he was grounded from flying by verbal order for already having failed to complete the physical many months prior.

On around 20-21 Aug 1972, there is every reason to believe he was in Miami with Nixon at the GOP Convention.

Then around 5 Sep 1972 he transfered to the 187th, as a pilot job classification...

Then around 15-19 Sep 1972, they finally grounded him in writing.

Note that even though he went to the military's dentist on 6 Jan 1973, and got a polio injection in Apr 1973 -- he never did get the physical.

I wonder why somebody would update only their polio vaccination in April of 1973. That's odd. I wonder if he was planning to travel.

[Bunny]

5. **snarf***

Top Goon! That's a good one!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Yes.

There are several online databases. You can search the FAA's list at http://www.faa.gov, or use this one, at Landings.com, which is easier to search: http://tinyurl.com/3zma3

Bush isn't there, but John Kerry is. He has the following certificates and ratings: Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land
Airplane Single Engine Sea
Airplane Multiengine Land
Instrument Airplane
Glider Aero Tow (Private Pilot)

[Carni]

8. Thanks!

This was probably a dumb observation on my part but it does seem odd!

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

29. I don't think it's a dumb question at all

From what I have seen, 80% of the documentation of his service is missing and what's left is highly interesting. I cannot imagine what is so important to cover up under all of this. I think it is worse than we've hoped, if only we can dig it up.

I am not sure what to make about him not keeping a license up. He has made some public comments that seem to acknowledge that he was not considered a superb pilot and "a decision was made" that he would not keep flying.

It is possible he is actually just not a very competent pilot and doesn't have the knack for it.

I, too, really wonder about all this, though. A lot of stuff in his records has been brushed under the rug.

On the plus side, according to FedEx, more records are going to arrive at my house tomorrow. :)

[YNGW]

7. Once you've been issued a pilot's certificate, .......

..... you can't lose it. It can be suspended, but it's not something the FAA ever takes away.

BTW, your pilots certificate number is typically your Social Security number.

[Carni]

9. Thanks I didn't know that!

I thought it was like a driver's license
(you can tell I don't fly lol)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. A pilot's license is much tougher to get than a drivers' license.

Also, even if you were a military pilot, you wouldn't automatically be qualified as a civilian pilot; you still have to get the FAA license. I don't think Bush* ever did that. The online databases only include pilots who have a current medical certificate (you also have to be medically qualified to fly for your pilot's license to be "legal.")

[Carni]

12. Hmmm...Again with the physical

Maybe that is why top goon decided not to pursue status as a civilian pilot?

Thanks!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. That's one angle.

The FAA can revoke your medical certificate if they find out you've had a DUI (they have access to the National Driver Registry). Then you're usually "grounded" for two years until you can prove to them that either you aren't an alcoholic or that you have remained sober. In Bush's* case I suspect that once he stopped showing up for his ANG duty he never flew anything again. Maybe he knew he'd have problems with the FAA, or else he just wasn't interested. It's pretty hard to be a pilot and a drunk at the same time.

[YNGW]

14. That's new.

>Also, even if you were a military pilot, you wouldn't automatically be qualified as a civilian pilot; you still have to get the FAA license.

The FAA hands out licenses to qualifies pilots. I've never heard anyone state what you just stated nor have I ever seen a military pilot be required to obtain a different type of license than he already had received, and I've flown for a real long time. A military pilot may have to get a different "type" rating based upon what he did or didn't fly in training compared to what he wants to fly as a civilian, but it's the same license.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. It isn't automatic.

I work for an airline, so I see this all the time. To get an FAA certificate a military pilot has to meet certain requirements. "Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) 61.73 allows the Federal Aviation Administration to issue U.S. civilian commercial pilot certificates, and appropriate ratings, to current or past military pilots based on their military flight training. This document is an attempt to explain in plain language what is required by FAR 61.73, in order to be issued a U.S. civilian pilot certificate.
An applicant for a certificate under FAR 61.73 must currently be on active flying status or must have been on active flying status within the past 12 months. If a military pilot does not make application within the 12 month time period, a U.S. pilot certificate or rating cannot be issued under FAR 61.73 without completing all applicable knowledge tests and practical tests for the level of pilot certificate sought."
http://www.awp.faa.gov/fsdo/military.htm

I don't think Bush* would have qualified for an FAA certificate, since he stopped flying long before he left the ANG.

[YNGW]

17. Quick Question

I wasn't in the military, so I'm asking this. Wouldn't a student pilot in training for the military start out as a Part 91 pilot, essential starting in a Cessna 150/172 or equivalent Piper? In other words, wouldn't any military pilot be Part 91 before s/he became anything else?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. Not usually.

I wan't in the military either, but I work with a lot of ex-military people. They might get a very short initial course in a basic trainer like a T-41, but as I understand it they generally start them right out in military (jet) trainers. Many military pilots never had any civilian training of any kind. The FAA doesn't regulate miltary aviation at all, so Part 91 doesn't apply.

[YNGW]

20. Only reason I say that...

.... is that most ex-military pilots I know walk straight into flying civilian aircraft. They may have to get a rating updated, etc..... But I've never known that to be an issue as far as their pilots certificate, which leads me to believe that many of them probably took advantage of getting as many various ratings, etc... as they could while in the military, including Part 91 status.

[Vickers]

15. Here is a good page about Georgie's "service" as a "pilot"

http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm

One of the funny parts is how he mentions flying the T-38, saying "the last plane I flew was the T-38."

That would have been what he TRAINED on. "T" for trainer, "F" for fighter (F-102), etc.

Also, he refers to himself later on as "Just an old jet jockey." :eyes:

[IdaBriggs]

19. Check out Skeleton Closet

Maybe they have something about it. www.realchange.org Personally, I'm grateful the coke head isn't flying planes!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. The top goon is notoriously incurious. No wonder he never continued flying

[xxqqqzme]

25. I've wondered about this also.

Aren't there mathematical equations and vectors and other math 'stuff' requirements? I seem 2 remember seeing pilots in training using slide rules(what's that)but that WAS a very long time ago.

As U can tell I am no math wizard nor a pilot.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. There is math and physics.

And aircraft systems and meteorology and FAA regulations and navigation. You have to take a bunch of written and oral and flight tests. It's fun but a lot of work, and work doesn't seem to be one of Boy George's favorite things. So even aside from him being a drunk and a coke-head, he probably wouldn't keep flying because he'd have to work at it.

[xxqqqzme]

27. thanx 4 that verification.

I thought there was a lot of concentrated effort that went N2 getting a license 2 fly. I could never picture squatter concentrating on anything but getting 2 the bottom of the keg.