Explain, Dems tell Clinton delegate

[babylonsister]

Explain, Dems tell Clinton delegate
E-mail challenges Clinton backer; she wonders where free speech went
By Allison Sherry
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 08/12/2008 06:14:09 AM MDT


Sacha Millstone of Boulder has hired a lawyer after a Democratic Party e-mail ordered her to come to headquarters and explain disparaging remarks she made about Barack Obama. A Clinton supporter, she hired an attorney who wrote the party asking for the rules that allow the party to threaten a person's removal from the state delegation. Party officials say the issue has been dropped. (RJ Sangosti, file photo )


The Colorado Democratic Party would like Boulder delegate Sacha Millstone, who is devoted to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, to give up her spot as a delegate to the Democratic National Convention.

Party officials said Monday that they won't insist Millstone resign. But in an e-mail last week, Billy Compton, state political director of the Colorado Democratic Party, ordered Millstone into his office to explain disparaging comments she made about Barack Obama.

Compton said the party had received a complaint about Millstone from another delegate.

"You are hereby directed to come in to the party Headquarters and explain your comments and why you should remain a national delegate to the 2008 Democratic National Convention in light of these comments," the letter said.

Millstone, who has hired a lawyer, was infuriated.

more...

http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_10170139

[WeDidIt]

1. She shouldn't be a delegate

Either she's on board with the nominee or she is disqualified.

[joshcryer]

3. The thing is that there's no evidence she's "against the nominee."

What it seems here is that she might have a personal inclination toward Hillary but is behind Obama 100%, it's just that others who seemingly don't like her don't want her to be a delegate.

[donco6]

7. Uh, well, her photo has her standing in front of a

storefront plastered with Hillary posters.

I'd say it's a pretty good bet.

[saracat]

11. Umm. She IS a "Clinton Delegate" and your point? She is going to the convention

representing Clinton and presumably will cast her vote on the first ballot for Clinton the candidate she was elected to cast that ballot for.

[PatGund]

15. Well.....

This was on 8 June....

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_9508204

"Sacha Millstone is nobody's sweetie.

The Democratic insider will stand up at August's national convention and cast her vote for the candidate who suspended her bid on Saturday. And then Millstone will quit the party with which she is falling bitterly out of line.

"This isn't sour grapes. This is about the best candidate losing the nomination because she's a woman. It's the most blatant example of sexism in our society. This is about the party breaking my trust, women's trust. And that can't be fixed," she says."

In addition to that, remember the rules committee meeting that gave Florida and Michigan back half their delegates?

"Millstone blames Barack Obama and party leaders for not rallying to Clinton's defense. And she slams them for trying to nudge the former first lady out of the race:

"That never would have happened if she were a man."

The final blow came last weekend, when Millstone stood in the rain protesting outside the hotel where party brass passed rules that she says threw Clinton overboard.

"First let me say that I have never been this angry in my life," she wrote in a dispatch from D.C.

There is no arguing with Millstone about whether Clinton was the most viable Democrat. She is unwavering that sexism cost her the race. Gender is the prism through which she views all things political. Any woman who doesn't, she says, is "deaf and blind.""

I somehow doubt she's behind Sen. Obama at all. I suspect she's another Debra Bartoshevich

[babylonsister]

16. Wow, if they could legally dump her, I wish they would. She's

leaving anyway, so why not.

Your last sentence is spot on, and all these whiners are getting on my last nerve.

[blondeatlast]

19. If that's the absolute worst sexism she's ever seen, she's damn lucky.

All of us women should be that lucky.

Note to Ms. Millstone: You aren't helping ANYONE'S cause. Resign; you are on loyal Democrats' dime.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

42. You don't know me well, do you? I damn near voted for HRC, and was neutral in the primaries.

I avoided GD/P like the plague back then.

And oh hell, I'm in my late forties and I've had sexism directed at me that pales in comparison to anything I've seen here. I'm not the person you are talking about above. And without some contrition for your assumptions, that's the last you'll hear from me. I value opinions of people who don't prejudge me.

Point out even ONE "Clinton-hating" post I've ever made, just one. She wasn't my choice, but I respect her and ex-President Clinton.

I don't respect delegates going to the convention on my dime and vowing to quit the party if they don't get their peevish little way. My disrespect is reserved for Ms. Millstone. I have the utmost respect for Hillary. Put away the broad brush and breathe, it'll do ya good.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

44. To be fair, it isn't on your dime

Delegates to the DNC convention pay their own way.
The convention itself is largely paid for by special contributions from various liberal and/or progressive interest groups.
Delegates are selected by a special election that is held by registered Democrats in a caucus that is held in
each congressional district. Because of this, it's typically only attended by Democratic activists, and the votes
are usually heavily skewed to people who show up to do party things on a regular basis.

This lady has got a bug up her ass, but if she was elected then she has a right to go. The Democratic party is a bottom-up
organization.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Erin Elizabeth]

80. This. +1.

[donco6]

21. Me too. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. Dump her..... or she needs to explain her myopic vision.

There is a fucking war going on!! Is she Nuts?

[Zhade]

27. Millstone is factually wrong. Obama won fair and square. Period.

NT!

[Alexander]

38. Wow, PUMAs defending other PUMAs? What a shock.

:eyes:

[joshcryer]

57. Who are you calling a PUMA in this instance?

I don't see any evidence the delegate in question will not vote for Obama.

[Alexander]

74. Yeah, blaming Obama for sexism is the sign of a supporter for sure.

:eyes:

I bet she thinks FOX News is more fair and balanced than Keith Olbermann.

[qwlauren35]

46. But, if Hillary Clinton had been a man...

AND, Bill Clinton's spouse... um, well...

Conundrum of major order.

First Lady??? I thought she was running as "Senator Clinton", an experienced Congressional power in her own right. But if it's her status as "First Lady" that matters, then she's running on Bill Clinton's coat tails.

And you can't have it both ways.

Hillary Rodham Clinton is a genuinely unique presence in the annals of American political history. She is the first "First Lady" to become a Senator. She is the first "First Lady" to run for president on a major party ticket (PLEASE remember Shirley Chisholm!!! And ELIZABETH DOLE!!!). She is the first woman to win a state presidential primary.

But her name recognition came from the man she is married to.

And there-in lies the conundrum that many African-American women feel about white women and "Affirmative Action". Senator Clinton would not have gotten off the ground if she hadn't been married to Bill. But somehow, this is something that her feminist supporters just won't discuss. If she had been Hillary Rodham, she wouldn't have made it out of the gate. And yet, somehow, we are supposed to stand up and applaud this woman who went from First Lady to Senator of NEW YORK (by buying a house there!) to Presidential Candidate.

And there are many white women who get where they are in life with a boost here or there from a powerful white man who wouldn't dream of doing the same for anyone of African descent.

So can it with the "it's because she's a WOMAN" crap. It's because she's Hillary Clinton. The two are NOT synonymous.

[jtb33]

9. I certainly hope you're being sarcastic...

That isn't what free speech is all about.

[Bobbie Jo]

18. There is a fine line between "free speech" and a planned manipulation. nt

[BigDDem]

61. That's how all the Democratic Conventions have worked, right?

[MyNameGoesHere]

63. YES dammit let the purges begin now.

One mind one thought, we shall obey. Oy i think i am going to Russia, at least the Anti democracy is blatant and out in the open.

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. Yikes! That is some scary stuff!

[Arkansas Granny]

4. Does anyone know what remarks she made that they want her to explain?

I didn't see any quotes in the article that were directly attributed to her.

[babylonsister]

12. She said she wasn't sure she could vote for Obama at the DNC...

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/politics/17163668/detail.html

Millstone acknowledged she was frustrated over how the Obama campaign was treating delegates who supported Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and told a fellow delegate, in what she believed was a private e-mail exchange, that she was not sure she could vote for Obama at the Democratic National Convention later this month.

The other delegate apparently filed a complaint with the state Democratic Party suggesting Millstone lose her status as a delegate.

[saracat]

14. She has the right to say whatever she wants privately. If she publicly stated, in her official

capacity, that she wouldn't vote for Obama after the first ballot, they might have an argument.She does have an obligation to support the nominee .But she can say and think whatever she wishes "privately".This isn't a totalitarian state.

It is kind of like the "rule that as democratic PC's in Primary elections we cannot 'endorse" nor can parety officers but we "can" endorse as private citizens. Sort of John DOe Dem State party VP can't endorse but John Doe ,company owner can. That being said. I wouldn't have responded to them either and I certainly wouldn't reamin friends with whomever forwarded a "private email' But then, we are fast learning their is no such thing as "private email" in this country anyway.

[babylonsister]

17. See post #15, said publicly, it seems. She needs to get lost. nt

[saracat]

29. Well she doesn't say that she won't support the nominee. She seems to be protesting what the rules C

to be protesting the Rules Committee. And as for casting her vote for Clinton, she IS a Clinton delegate and she is still a Democrat until she actually leaves the party, whether he announces she is leaving the party or not.
People often say things they regret or mean at the time. Obama said he had no intention of running for president. He said "he didn't have enough experience" and yet he did. And will be the nominee. Go figure. lots of pols do that.

[Alexander]

39. Do you regret saying you would not vote for Obama?

Yes or no?

[saracat]

56. Not during the primary. I will vote for him in the GE. Still don't like him but he isn't McCain.

[JackORoses]

28. she has said publically she is dropping out of the Democratic Party after the Convention

She is obviously not a Democrat.

She should be kicked to the curb.

[Alexander]

40. And yet the usual crowd is here defending these people...

I think I see a rather large cat.

[AtomicKitten]

43. here kitty kitty kitty

[Moochy]

53. que sera sera

cat?

[jobycom]

5. "You are hereby directed..." Wow that makes us look good. nt

[PresidentObama]

6. Wow. Idiotic.

[AtomicKitten]

8. They are emulating the lack of respect the Clintons showed Barack in the primary.

I really couldn't care less who they vote for, but I continue to have a huge problem with them going out of their way to damage Obama. From a party perspective, their actions are disgraceful and reflect badly on the Clintons who, as it turns out, are encouraging them http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2439 - wink, wink - to carry on with their crusade to overturn the primary.

[FrenchieCat]

10. If Hillary believes that if Obama doesn't win in 2008, that she has a chance in 2012,

she's got a shock coming. Noone has amnesia around here.....altough she may think so.

[AtomicKitten]

13. Power struggle already in progress.

They are counting on in 2012 what they are trying to deprive Obama of now ... a unified party.

Game on.

[highplainsdem]

55. Obama should unite the party by asking Clinton to be his running mate. If he doesn't, it's his

mistake.

Though if it ends up costing us the election, as it very well could, we'll all have to live with it.

Obama was not the overwhelming choice of the Democratic Party. He won a narrow victory over Clinton, and he and his supporters should not try to act as if Clinton and her supporters can be ignored or banished.

The Clinton bashers here at DU are the mirror image of the PUMAs. Just as destructive of party unity.

[AtomicKitten]

58. It's long past time for you to accept her defeat and move on.

[ronnykmarshall]

75. It's long past time for Obama supporters ...

to get over the primary and stop posting shit like this and jumping up and down like a bunch of fucking 12 year olds.

Cuts both ways.

[AtomicKitten]

76. Clue phone for you: Clinton lost, Obama won. Time for you to move on.

[ronnykmarshall]

77. Uh, get a fucking clue. I HAVE moved on.

I'm not the one posting shit about Hillary or getting my tit in wringer spewing the same primary bullshit over again.

And yes, I said TIT. Please report my ass.

I don't give a fuck.

[AtomicKitten]

84. Mark Spitz: "Michael Phelps isn't being sensitive to my needs by beating my Olympic record."

[windbreeze]

72. This is where I disagree...

I bet I can almost guarantee you...that IF HRC had won the nomination...NO ONE would be telling her who she should pick to be her VP...She AND her supporters would feel it was HER right to pick whomever she wanted, and that IS exactly what she'd do(she doesn't strike me as a person, other people push around)...yet...all we hear is how it's only right for Obama to pick Clinton...imo, that's a wrong headed perception...HE won..and with his win, he also won the right to pick whomever he chooses for his VP...she has NO claim on the position, UNLESS HE WANTS her there...and IF he doesn't pick her, she, nor her supporters, have any bitching rights...She lost this race because she assumed the win was hers, and underestimated her opponent, and the American people...

As for stating IF he doesn't pick her, and that then results in an election loss for him...that statement indicates to me, that you feel(cause you more or less said it) that Hillary supporters do NOT intend to vote for the Democratic nominee, if it's Obama...that they would subject this country to another 4 years of Republican rule, other than vote for him...WOW...considering the state this country is in, the stupidity of that mindset, does much more than simply amaze me...and it sure doesn't make me think nice things about Clinton at this point, either...because, personally, I don't care what she's doing on the surface "for" Obama, she is NOT doing enough to defuse the situation, where it counts...

Maybe her supporters should remember..if she were the nominee, she would also need Obama supporters to win...maybe they should have kept their mouths shut about their attempt to cause him to lose, IF he doesn't pick her for VP...I am just sorry to see Democrats that are so willing to self destruct, and to think they'd be willing to do so over one particular candidate.....You'd think, after the last 8 years, our country as a whole, would be more important than one person....wb

[gal]

87. You know what...there is always a loser in the primary.

I don't remember past nominees being told they had to take the loser onto their ticket. No one gets 100% of the voters support, so you know what they do? They take the one who won the majority and make them the winner!!! BOOM you then have one person that moves on for the next race ...that is what happened here and his name is Barack Obama.

The majority of the people that voted (majority being the keyword) wanted something different. Let's move on with THE choice of the democratic party.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnykmarshall]

78. How sweet!!

Her supporters can go to hell.

Oh that's just darling.

If Admin wonders why the fundraisers is going so shitty ..... well here's proof of it.

Have a wonderful day, hon.

[PresidentObama]

24. No evidence at all to back up that theory.

[Skip Intro]

34. none needed when smearing Hillary

same as it ever was

[madfloridian]

37. Hillary told them in the video....her own words. Recorded.

She wants them to have a "catharis"

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2461

[Zhade]

50. Funny how often the deadenders ignore the undeniable evidence, eh?

Like, oh, TUZLA.

[TexasObserver]

68. She and John Edwards were filmed dodging sniper fire!!

by Edwards' squeeze, that Riell woman, caught on tape!

Yay, this is a twofer!!

[BlooInBloo]

32. Yup.

[Owl]

35. I agree.

[PresidentObama]

26. It's bullshit to claim the Clintons are trying to overturn the primary.

And no evidence exists to spread such a smear.

[AtomicKitten]

36. You mean evidence OTHER than the video with her calling for a catharsis?

The one where she says she's working out the VP spot with the Obama camp when the truth is she isn't even being considered thereby setting up her minions for more disappointment which will in turn fuel their batshit crazy rage.

Just because you CHOOSE to close your eyes and ears does not give you license to yell "liar" when you trip over inconvenient truths. But, hey, knock yourself out. We'll call it your own personal catharsis.

On edit: Catharsis. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/12/stephen-colberts-latest-s_n_118534.html

[Arugula Latte]

22. This small band of Hillary nuts is so pathetic.

[PBS Poll-435]

25. How does posting this article help Obama beat McCain?

:shrug:

[totodeinhere]

47. It gives people who loath the Clintons even more motivation to work for and to vote for Obama.

If Obama loses then Clinton will run again in 2012. If Obama wins, then she is more than likely shut out. That's a pretty powerful motivation to vote for Obama.

[highplainsdem]

51. But since Clinton got approximately as many primary votes as Obama, all the Clinton-bashing does is

divide the party.

Which -- although the idiot Clinton-bashers can't see it -- will probably cost us this election, when it should have been an easy victory for us.

I can't believe that the Clinton bashers are so blind as to believe, after HRC got about as many votes as Obama did, that they can win the general election without her supporters.

I realize that the fact this forum turned into something of an echo chamber for Obama fans. as they drove more and more Clinton supporters away, makes it harder for many of the Obama fans here to understand that. Judging by DU these days, you'd never know that Clinton did so well in the primaries. Nor would it be possible to believe that Bill Clinton was elected twice and left office with a high approval rating. The Clinton bashers at DU live in an alternate universe from the rest of the world, including the rest of the Democratic Party.

But the fact remains that Hillary Clinton's approximately as popular in the Democratic Party as Obama is, and Clinton-bashing is just as destructive of party unity as Obama-bashing by Clinton supporters would be if she were the nominee.

If you don't understand that now, maybe you Clinton-bashers will figure it out in November after you cost the Democratic Party the GE...and probably a lot of downticket races as well, as Democrats who'd been Clinton supporters who are sick of all the damn Clinton-bashing choose to stay home.

[totodeinhere]

52. It boggles my mind that anyone who calls him or herself a Democrat...

would even remotely consider voting for McCain. How could any former Clinton supporter vote for McCain (or vote for a third party candidate or stay home) just because a few DU posters are bashing Clinton? That's just crazy. I would like to think Clinton supporters are more intelligent than that.

[AtomicKitten]

59. Your answer lies within your question: "That's just crazy."

[mloutre]

62. Blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah.

She fucking lost. Get over it.

[paulk]

81. case in point

[Erin Elizabeth]

82. Where did this myth come from that the primaries were so

incredibly close?

[Lilith Velkor]

60. So loathing the Clintons is all Obama's got going for him in the GE?

That's just fucking brilliant. :eyes:

Newsflash: Obama is running against McCain. There are lots of people who loathe the Republicans more than they do the Clintons. They are called "Democrats." You might want to appeal to them instead of pandering to the fucking freepers.

[Chloroplast]

66. You're reaching and you know it.

If she wants to cast her vote for Clinton, let her. If this woman had publicly stated she wants to stage a coup, I'd fully support them wanting to strip her of her position but she didn't. No one has to 'pander' to any Democrat; either you're with us or you can move the hell out of the way. We don't have time to kiss anyone's boo-boos.

[Lilith Velkor]

89. See that little blue number on the upper right-hand side of my post?

If you click on it, and read the post to which I am replying, you can follow the conversation better.

As to your assertion that "no one has to pander to any Democrat," that is absolute bullshit. The "Fuck you, vote for me" strategy has lost us two elections and endangered the planet. Third time could be the charm. :nuke:

If you take it further, as the unfortunate soul I replied to proposed, and pander to the fucking freepers, that is politically suicidal. Such people should stay the hell away from the Obama campaign, donate money, and get a hobby.

[Lucky 13]

79. Are we to ignore news stories just because you don't like the content?

:shrug:

[PBS Poll-435]

83. Nah

Just not a good idea to post non-general election articles in GDP.

This trash belongs in The Lounge.

[Lucky 13]

85. It involves the convention, so how is that not relevant to GDP?

But yeah. In general, I think most of the Clinton garbage needs to be in the lounge or GD.

[PBS Poll-435]

86. It is unnecessary "scab-picking"

And it is posted to provoke a very specific reaction.

[Skip Intro]

30. sheesh, zeig heil!

[BlooInBloo]

33. On the flip side, it's very nice to see institutions finally starting to get his back....

against the worthless anti-Democratic-nominee Clinton supporters.

[apocalypsehow]

41. Poor, put-upon PUMA got a meanie e-mail from the Democratic Party. Boo-fuckin'-hoo.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

:nopity:

[bvar22]

45. People who need a "catharsis"....

...should go see a therapist, or attend a 12-Step Group, NOT the Democratic Convention.
The Democratic Convention is ALL about getting Obama elected in November.
It is NOT the appropriate venue for some self-absorbed people to work through their hurt feelings.

Get in Line, or get the fuck out!

[TexasObserver]

88. Indeed. Buy a pint of ice cream and watch Beaches with a friend.

For guys, watch Brian's Song and do shots of Tequila with a friend.

[IndianaGreen]

48. Is this the same woman that said she was going to vote for McCain?

Some of these PUMAs are no better than Lieberman!

[paulk]

49. No.

[blondeatlast]

65. She said she'd leave the party if she didn't get her way. When I think of all the hard-working

volunteers I've known who would love to serve as delegates, it makes me sick to hear that.

She can say what she wants, but if her party loyalty is that frail, I'm sure there's lots of hrd-working, selfless volunteers who would love to take her place. I think being chosen as a delegate means the local party has shown a great degree of faith in you to support party goals at the Convention, but that seems to mean nothing to Ms. Millstone.

[RidinMyDonkey]

54. I can see why she was infuriated

Where does it say she will vote for McCain? If she did say it, I missed it. But she has a right to criticize Barack Obama. Though I'd rather that she didn't, it's still her right.

[ieoeja]

64. Was this a threat? Or was he trying to help her?

The State Chair said s/he only wanted to find out if Millstone wanted out. If she hates Obama as alleged, is it all that odd to think she may not be interested in attending a party celebrating his nomination?

Had she simply picked up the telephone and called the Chair ... there would be no story.

Hmm....

[TexasObserver]

67. They should deny her floor credentials and let her try to get a court order.

But not do it until the day the convention starts.

[ieoeja]

69. They may have.

In the link in the OP the state party chairman says this issue is moot as it is too near the convention to do anything now. I took that to mean she was stuck as a delegate and that Colorado would have to lose a vote if she chose not to show up.

However, in a link provided downthread by the OP, the chairman is quoted along the lines of, she refused to return my call and it is too late now, we have to work with those delegates who are working with us.

That last sounds very much like s/he has already made arrangements for the state's delegations. And since Millstone didn't return the chair's call when s/he wanted to find out whether Millstone wanted to remain a delegate or not -- the chair is quoted in the OP link as saying that is all s/he wanted to find out-- s/he had to fill the vacant spot.

Unfortunately, neither journalist apparently thought to ask the simple question, "is she still, or she no longer, a delegate to the convention?"

[TexasObserver]

70. if they don't want her in the convention, they can stop her

If she shows up at the convention hall and she is denied entrance, her only choices are to go on TV or try to get a court order. No judge in Denver will take jurisdiction of it. They'll say it is a state party matter and kick it back. If she goes then to her home state, they'll defer to the state pary and say it's a political matter.

If the party decides to deny her floor credentials, she will not enter the building.

[ieoeja]

71. For the record: she is/was a Colorado delegate. So it is all one state for her.

But, yeah, there is a LOT of legal precedence. And 100% of it says a political party is outside government control. It shocks me to see Democrats suggest we should have government controlled parties.

And it's kind of hard to argue if the Colorado State Party chair says s/he had to give the spot to someone else because Millstone refused to return the chair's call to confirm Millstone's status as a delegate.

[TexasObserver]

73. oops. I have to pay more attention to the stories.

I was thinking she was from a different state, so she could take action in Denver for all purposes, as you note.

If she's smart, she'll file a request for extraordinary relief before the convention starts, and seek a TRO or mandatory injunction preventing them from preventing her from appearing as a delegate.

Probably won't work even then, but at least she'd get her day in court before they body slam her on the first day of the convention.