O'Neill, Caught On Tape, Tells Nixon He Was In Cambodia

[ruggerson]

Or was he?

The reason this is huge, as Will rightly says, is because the rightwingers have been yapping on their talk shows for weeks that Kerry's "fuzziness" on Cambodia illustrates a supposed character flaw.

Now we have O'Neill telling Nixon he was in Cambodia, on the border, then denying he was ever in Cambodia in print.

He just fumbled through this story with Hannity trying to defend him and doing a very bad job of it.

Here's the problem: If he was in Cambodia, then he's lying now and he and his group's credibility is virtually sunk.

If he wasn't in Cambodia, and told Nixon he was, then his story is virtually IDENTICAL to John Kerry's and it illustrates how easy it was for them not to know on the boats whether they were on the border, in or out or five miles from Cambodia.

So, either way, this destroys their argument.

Anyone have a clip of O'Neill with Hannity just now? Just that 60 seconds is enough to put the Cambodia thing to bed forever. It's classic evasive bullshit, with both O'Neill and Hannity clearly scrambling not to look like hypocritical liars.

It should get played over and over and over.

[WilliamPitt]

1. That would be that

[TrueAmerican]

2. Without GPS

It would be easy to be a little off (5-10 miles). Did they have GPS in 1968?

[Jacobin]

4. No GPS wasn't around back then

[TrueAmerican]

12. Yes, I know

I was being a little sarcastic in the question. Sorry.

[dogman]

8. We had no idea where we were.

I went out on a mission and we had maps that were not accurate. They were close but who knows what mapmaking levels were for a primitive country. There were rumors spreading around among the company command that we were in Cambodia or Laos and that maps had been supplied of similar terrain. It would be easy for guys to come back and say they were anywhere. When we called in coordinates for artillery it was less accurate than usual which led some to believe we were mislead. It would not be hard to believe that some one would not be sure and in recalling things through the fog of war and time lapsed might not be 100% accurate but still believe what they say. We flew longer and farther than ever before but have no way of knowing the truth. This is why reports from the time are all we can rely on and the service records should speak for themselves.

[TX VN Viet]

14. Vietnam maps

I served with the 199th Light Infrantry Brigade from Dec 68 - Dec 69. For most of that time I was a 20 year old platoon SGT. In the spring or summer of 69 we went on an eagle flight to the plain of reeds. To those of you unfamiliar with the plain of reeds, it was a large expanse of elephant grass, where borders would not be idetifiable. Like you said we flew longer and farther than normal. The map I was given was very accurate as far as terrain features, canals etc. What was missing was the map legend at the bottom of the map that told you where you were on the globe. It was and still is my belief that I was in Cambodia.

[nomatrix]

18. Welcome to DU!

TX VN VET and Thank You for serving. Glad you made it home. :hi:

[TX VN Viet]

20. Thanks for the thanks

I'm glad I made it home too.

[TiredTexan]

21. Welcome from

another Texan. Thanks for your service.

[DemMother]

22. My cousin was part of the illegal invasion of Cambodia

He was a medic in Vietnam. His parents had no communication with him for awhile. I'll have to double check the story with my mother about when it was--if she remembers. I just remember that when he came back he just talked about the smell of death.

[Zen Democrat]

29. My cousin tells me of a secret mission to Laos in 1968. He was SF. n/t

[Jacobin]

3. When have Hannity or Rush ever "scrambled not to look like hypocritcal

liars"?

Just asking.

They don't ever admit when their lies are exposed. They just make up more lies, which is why tilting at windmills to run around disproving their claptrap is playing into their hands.

The new MoveOn ads I've seen are breathtaking and wonderful. I hope the focus gets on those instead of frittering our time away disproving fascist lies, only to have a new lie dragged down the street first thing tomorrow morning.

[beaconess]

5. Why hasn't anyone drawn a parallel between Cambodia and Alabama?

Bush claims that he was on the Alabama ANG base and when anyone questions his assertion, we're told "He says he was there, so he was there, unless you can prove he wasn't!"

On the other hand, Kerry says he was in Cambodia and his detractors scream "You say you were there, but unless you can prove you were, you're lying!"

Why hasn't anyone pointed out this contradiction? If Kerry has to prove he was in Cambodia, shouldn't Bush have to prove he was on the Alabama ANG base? And if the inability to prove that Bush was NOT on the base (since it's virtually impossible to prove a negative) is used to bolster Bush's claim that he was there, shouldn't the inability to prove that Kerry was NOT in Cambodia bolster Kerry's claim?

Moreover:

1. Unlike Cambodia, the Alabama ANG base has very distinct borders that enable anyone who ventures there to know whether they are indeed on the base or not. It's certainly not likely that Bush was wandering around Alabama and truly believed that he crossed over into the ANG base while he was really a few miles away. In other words, even if Kerry was never in Cambodia, it's certainly reasonable to conclude that his assertion he was there was an honest mistake (since there were no "Welcome to Cambodia" signs on the border) while Bush's assertion that he reported for duty on a clearly delineated piece of property is a bald-faced lie.

2. Unlike Bush's claims to have been on the base, Kerry's claim to have been in Cambodia actually has some backup - albeit circumstantial. The new revelation about O'Neill, if it turns out to be accurate, adds to it.

3. Unlike Kerry's likely trip into Cambodia, the lack of evidence of Bush's appearances on the ANG base DOES help to prove he wasn't there - in contrast to Kerry's trips into Cambodia, Bush's presence on the base would have been documented, thus the lack of documentation is evidence that he wasn't there.

[lastknowngood]

6. You people keep thinking these assho*es have some credibility

they don't and it doesn't bother them at all. The media keeps playing their lies over and over again for free and might mention that their is some question of the exact wording of a single line. Get a grip people this ain't nothing, the lawyer working for the shrub and these assholes is a much bigger thing. This won't even get a mention after noon tomorrow.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

13. Read the whole article about the lawyer

it ain't much. It even says it's common practice and the Dems do it, too.

[Sparkly]

7. But isn't the main issue *when*??

I don't think anybody could dispute that we were in Cambodia later. It's about the December 1968 time frame, isn't it?

Brinkley himself said O'Neill told Nixon he supported the incursions into Cambodia and Laos. Maybe he crossed the border; maybe he lied about it but will weasel out saying it was later. But he'll still claim Kerry is lying unless it's proven boats went through in '68 and given how the government was lying, that's not easy.

What am I missing...

[John_H]

23. Uh. Politics.

Kerry attacker: Proven a liar. Kerry: Right again.

Your question is a good one--for the next Contemporary Southeast Asian History class discussion.

The Rethugs and the media whores paint everything with a brush as big as Alaska. It's time we did started to do the same without getting caught up in the "Oh-deary-me--everything-I'm-saying-must-be-100%-pristinely-correct-or-I'm-just-like-them" trap. Big brushes win campaigns.

[Cush]

9. CNN just played the tape

[NashVegas]

10. CNN Covering It Now

heehee

[Proud2BAmurkin]

11. HAHA...CNN nails him

They did the story, then Aaron Brown had the reporter repeat the fact that O'Neill was caught in a lie.

[NightOwwl]

15. What does the truth have to do with it?

So this supposed "character flaw" of Kerry's will be exposed as a lie. They'll just make up another and get a week of free air time to run with it.

It's not about the truth, it's not about character flaws, it's about destroying Kerry.

I'm sorry if I sound snippy, but I am so bummed right now. :cry:

[AP]

16. Republicans are running on their record...of lying.

[union_maid]

17. My husband just said...

...Nixon and tapes again. Those Nixon tapes just keep on giving. :)

[Stephanie]

19. Please, for we ignorants, why does it matter if they were in Cambodia?

I'm not getting why it's important.

[Zen Democrat]

30. Just stretching for a "gotcha" on Kerry, that he was not truthful.

In Cambodia or not is immaterial. We were operating at the borders of Cambodia throughout the war -- but Cambodia was our "friend" and the U.S. Government did not want to admit crossing their sovereign border. But the whole thing is just a little point to make Kerry appear to be a liar. It's a unprovable charge.

[sampsonblk]

24. I hope this works, but I am doubtful

In this thread, someone else mentioned the media using big brushes. I agree.

IMHO, what people have heard at home was "John Kerry lied about being a hero in Vietnam." Countering that with "John O'Neill is lying about Kerry" isn't going to work. Of the people who now hate Kerry over Vietnam, how many know who John O'Neill is or what he ssaid exactly? Probably not many.

We are right on this one. But in terms of the media and the voters, I don't think this will make a big difference. I hope I am wrong.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. Where did O'Neill deny he was ever in Cambodia in print?

I missed it on TV and none of these threads seem to have this bit of info.

[ruggerson]

26. Here's a quote

This might not be print, it might have been from a recent television appearance:

O'Neill: "You asked about Cambodia. How do I know he's not in Cambodia? I was on the same river, George. I was there two months after him. Our patrol area ran to Sedek, it was 50 miles from Cambodia. There isn't any watery border. And our boats didn't go north of, only slightly north of Sedek. So it was a made up story"

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. So O'Neill is actually trying to deny that ANYONE was in Cambodia?

:wtf: I gotta admit, I have not been keeping close track of the latest lies.

[ruggerson]

28. Yep

And apparently CNN has tape of him definitively saying he was never in Cambodia. He says it numerous times, all recently.

Now, this tape has surfaced where he tells Nixon: "I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water."

And this is the HEAD swiftsmearer. The one who wrote the book.

[Zen Democrat]

31. Swift Liars. That's all they are. And their lies ARE provable now. n/t

[blm]

32. Been monitoring all morning and O'Neill in Cambodia hasn't come up ONCE

on any of the networks.