Cleland, Rassman going to Crawford to confront Bush!

[DeepModem Mom]

Thanks to barbaraann for posting in LBN --

By Adam Entous

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) will dispatch two fellow Vietnam veterans to President Bush (news - web sites)'s secluded Texas ranch on Wednesday to press him to condemn television advertisements accusing Kerry of lying about his wartime service.

The move comes one day after it was disclosed that a top lawyer for Bush's re-election campaign has been providing legal advice to the group behind the ads, the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Kerry is sending to Crawford former Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia, a frequent companion of Kerry's on the campaign trail and a fellow Vietnam War veteran who lost three limbs during the war.

Cleland and former Army Green Beret Jim Rassman, whose life was saved by Kerry during a Vietnam war firefight, will try to deliver a letter protesting the ads to Bush at his heavily guarded ranch, Kerry aides said.
....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=5&u=/nm/20040825/pl_nm/campaign_ads_dc

[skooooo]

1. yeah, baby!

[NJCher]

2. LOL, turn up the heat

Crawford's already sizzling.


Cher

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I want photos

of the guards turning them away unless they sign a loyalty oath....

Do you think the Chimp will be in character and be AWOL when they come?

[fishface]

4. That cowardly punk bitch will make sure the SS keeps them

from ever getting within 5 miles of that dirtpile he calls a ranch.

[Cascadian]

5. I hope Cleland woops ass!

I hope Max Cleland gets a cabinet seat in the Kerry Adminsitration. He deserves it. This man needs to come back to public office after getting screwed by the Georgia GOP for comparing him to Osama bin Laden. How dare they stoop so low to kick a man who gave his limbs and his almost life for his country. Those scumbags!


John

[peaches2003]

6. Same old Bush act

Bush will walk down the drive from his hideaway, boots and real cowboy belt on, arms out like he's ready to draw his pistols, with his usual cowboy swagger and then say the same crap- how he honors their Vietnam service and wants all the 527 ads to stop. The press will salute him and that will be it.

[Gore1FL]

7. Nonetheless

the box him in. Witht he convention coming up the more they can restrict W from attacking, the more he'll have to talk about his own failures. :)

[LiberalEsto]

11. At that point...

they should demand to see HIS medals!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. and so Cleland and Rassman stand there until he addresses

the specific ad. I think Bush is screwed here.

[Southern Patriot]

53. Yeah, that might win some points from moralistic liberals but

it'll just get damaging derision from the Rove propaganda machine.

Making your opponents look rediculous is one of the most effective political strategies. And, this is just handing them the opportunity.

This isn't MLK arriving in DC with thousands of people to "speak truth to power." Ras and Cleland will look ineffective and Kerry will look powerless.

[Cocoa]

58. damaging derision?

if Rove slimes Cleland further, during the RNC convention that has "Compassion" as a theme, it's not going to be Kerry that gets damaged.

[Southern Patriot]

73. Rove won't slime Cleland during the RNC but be prepared for

A LOT of derision and lampooning of Kerry.

I haven't heard that the RNC theme is "compassion." The early reports that I've heard is that speakers will tear down Kerry using derision.

It's one of the most effective tools in politics:

"Sen. Kerry has been on every side of XYZ issue."

"I understand that John Kerry stumped his toe this morning. Too bad that the Senate doesn't award Purple Hearts."

"President Bush will move decisively to attack America's enemies before they attack us. John Kerry will move decisively to ask permission from the U.N."

etc.

[Cocoa]

75. that explains it

you're not paying attention.

They're calling Bush's travel to the convention "Compassion across America" and their speakers are heavy on the moderates.

[Southern Patriot]

88. Nope. Haven't been paying attention to the RNC...

I'm paying attention of Kerry struggling to counter a debilitating attack on his character and record.

You don't think that Republicans can give lipservice to "compassion" while deriding Kerry as weak, ineffective, vacillating, and, ultimately dishonest?

Evidently you're the one who hasn't been paying attention. They'll do it with a laugh, a smile, a wink and a sneer. They've BEEN doing it. So they'll put Ah-nold on the podium instead of Delay to do it. It'll be even MORE effective when a "moderate" lampoons Kerry with "good humor."

I remember when Ann Richards lampooned Bush. THAT was effective. Only the Gore Campaign didn't follow up with the theme. The Republicans WILL stick to talking points and themes.

Watch. Every speaker and talking head will get a gibe or two in on Kerry. Bush may stay above the fray (or let a little zinger slip) but everyone else will be making fun of Kerry.

[kodi]

71. and lets hope we get more vids of his dog pooping in the background

saw it on keith olbermannn's count down last night, i laughed so hard my sides ached.

bush was standing alongside of cheney, powell, rice and someone else and as he was mouthing more babbling inanities, his little dog was 15 feet behind him taking a dump on the lawn.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Glad to see Kerry putting his knights into play.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[DemBones DemBones]

9. Yahoo doesn't keep stats on how many people view stories but

only 160 people have rated this story. DU it!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. Brilliant set up! Will Bush spit on 2 Vietnam veterans?

If he doesn't personally confront the issues and the SBV ads, then he is playing right into the trap!
Looks like a win-win for us- Bush either condemns the ads, or disses these 2 vets on his doorstep.

[mzmolly]

13. WOW! I'd love to see this on film! Mr. Moore, Daily Show? You listenin?

:hi:

[Cocoa]

14. does Bush have a nickname for Cleland?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. No doubt he does

and no doubt its publication would lose him quite a few votes.

[Francine Frensky]

23. I heard it was "bob", as in what happens when he swims

just passing this along.

[Catshrink]

16. The Deserter will whimper: "Please don't yell at me"

The little weasel will crumble when he comes face to face with real veterans and real heros. You know, people who actually went to war instead of the chickenshit deferees he hangs out with.

[SayitAintSo]

49. A 'Carla Faye' moment ? n/t

[Catshrink]

89. You got it!

He can dish it out, but can't take it.

[quaoar]

17. I don't know if this is such a good idea

It has the potential of being seen as Kerry pleading with Bush.

[Cocoa]

18. he's smoking Bush out of his hole

Bush attacks from the darkness, the way to get at him is to shine a spotlight on him.

[Southern Patriot]

47. Nope. He's making his surrogates look weak and ineffective.

The video will show a group of powerless people at the gate of the palace pleading with the powerful emperor to quit saying bad things about their candidate.

It's a disaster made for television.

[Cocoa]

67. a powerful emperor is the LAST thing Bush wants to look like

because it's exactly what he IS, despite the mighty labors of Rove and the media.

And Cleland will not look like he's weak, or like he's begging, he'll look like he's COURAGEOUS for DEMANDING THE EMPEROR HEAR HIM.

He's going RIGHT THERE to the center of Bush's power.

[The Hair in my Nose]

19. This is getting silly!

We're gonna look like fools.

[oasis]

79. War heroes on a mission to challenge a chickenhawk "war president" to

do the right thing. I don't see how "we" look like fools.

[WilliamPitt]

87. Wrong

[elehhhhna]

20. better get there early when he's sober...

[Commendatori]

21. This is NOT a good idea, it makes us look weak and whiny

It looks like desperation. Kerry said "bring it on," the GOP brings in weak shit, and now Kerry - instead of fighting back - is so upset that he has to send Cleland in to fight for him?

For God's sake, he was in Vietnam and has decorations to prove it. Instead of going on the attack when facts and background are on his side, he's sending another vet to plead his case?

This is BAD. If we lose this election, I'll look at this as one of the turning points - Kerry is, in essence, asking "please don't be mean to me." I'd rather see our candidate slug it out than hope and pray that the Republicans will be nice.

Like it or not, negative campaigning works. We should be using some instead of trying playground whining like this.

[quaoar]

22. Plus

It makes it that much harder to go negative on Bush later.

[Commendatori]

25. Good call

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to think this way. I figured I'd get flamed, but I'm really pissed off about this and can't believe that any decent campaign strategist wouldn't be begging Kerry to bow out of this dumbass idea.

[lancdem]

54. The Kerry campaign never does anything rash

I'm sure this is part of a larger strategy to shine the light on Bush's history of dirty tricks.

[Commendatori]

64. I sure hope you're right

I'd be as happy as anyone to be wrong here. The fact that Kerry called vets has had me in a panic as of late, and this looks like a major gaffe to me, so let's just hope I'm mistaken.

[lancdem]

48. Why?

There's a difference between smears and attacking someone's record.

[molly]

24. You are wrong

Kerry is confronting the enemy - aggressive maneuver. :kick:

Defeat them on their own turf! :kick:

[Commendatori]

29. By asking Bush not to be mean to him?

Put yourself in Kerry's place. You're a decorated Vietnam vet asking begging from civility from an AWOL National Guard office in charge of beer drinking? Wouldn't "confronting my enemy in an agressive manner" be more along the lines of attacking back instead of asking a Republican not to attack in a mean way?

[Cocoa]

33. he's not asking Bush not to be mean to him

all the media whores are distorting Kerry's words and actions into something ridiculous, why do people at DU have to do this too?

Same goes for "begging for civility." What's with all this dumb spinning crap?

[Commendatori]

40. This is the way it will be taken by many and how it will be reported.

You and I are in agreement on media whores - you think giving them this sort of ammo is a good idea?

Since there's no good reason for Bush to do anything, why do it at all?

[Cocoa]

44. everything is ammo

absoulutely everything.

Kerry's getting slammed for not fighting back, and he's getting slammed for fighting back.

If he didn't send Cleland down there, people would be demanding his head on a platter for not sending Cleland down there.

[Commendatori]

50. ???

I doubt people were standing around saying "gee, I hope someone thinks of sending Cleland down there." I'd bet most Democrats didn't even think of such a thing until they heard it was to happen.

I'm more inclined to look at how undecideds look at this. I could be wrong, but I think you're giving the average voter far too much credit - you write as if everyone is as politically aware as a typical DUer. Nothing could be further from the truth. From my view, Kerry can't even buy coverage, especially positive coverage, so I can't see how this will help us.

I'd have saved the sympathy ploy (using a disabled vet) for something that stood a chance of working, but that's just me. If you think this is a good idea on Kerry's part, the only thing I can say is that I hope you're right. Taking media whores into account, I don't think I'm wrong here, but I'd be glad to be. Let's just keep our fingers crossed.

[democrat_patriot]

85. I don't think this a real good idea either.

Bush camp says "Thanks for the letter. We don't like 527's either. Bye."

or

"The president is sorry he cn't meet with you, he has a top level meeting regarding American Security, he will review your letter, as ALL veterans are important to him, Bye.".

End of story.

The media controls the edit button. They can spin the ANY way they want to.

[karlrschneider]

63. Yep, you're right. Read the messages that're being posted under the story

A lot of them do indeed see it as JK "begging, whining". I think it's a HORRIBLE idea.

[Southern Patriot]

42. Rove is a grand champion at using all this "spinning crap"

to beat his opponents.

Bush's image is dependent on being perceived as a strong leader when America is threatened.

Bush's surrogates will crucify Kerry as being weak: "If Kerry gets elected will he send Max Cleland to beg Osama for a break?"

This is the same way that they nullify the idea that we should have led the UN in deposing the Iraq sanctions: "Don't give UN bureaucrats or Old Europe veto power over our national interest."

Kerrry needs to make Bush look weak and stupid--- by example and by direct indictment of his mistakes.

[molly]

60. Rove is fast becoming outsmarted and outmaneuvered

and NOONE is begging - they are demanding.

[MoonRiver]

32. Absolutely!

This is a GREAT idea, especially if the cable stations film it live! :kick:

[Mick Knox]

26. I agree, they brang it and he cried uncle

Not such a good move IMO.

The late night shows and pundits will pick up on it and play on it.

[librechik]

30. well then, let's never speak up or press our just case to power

that would make us look desperate!

Let's just stay quiet and hope for the best, even those of us (like Max and Jim) in an absolutely righteous position to make a difference. Being good little campers has worked very well so far, no?

NO!

Time to SPEAK UP or get out of the way.

[democrat_patriot]

86. CNN: Passing notes in Middle School

That's the effect this had.

It was a bad idea.

[Cocoa]

31. Kerry's not fighting back?

where have you been? How can you possibly think Kerry's not fighting back? If you are so uninformed that you haven't seen Kerry fighting back, how good can your opinion be about anything?

[Commendatori]

43. Fine, I'll rephrase

Not fighting back to the satisfaction of not only me, but quite a few other Democrats.

Is his fighting back to date to YOUR satisfaction? If so, why is so much of this centering around the Swifties when Kerry has superior ideas? If your answer is "media whores," my immediate counter is that he should be taking that into account and stepping it up more, and then I repeat the question: is his fighting back to date to YOUR satisfaction?

[NightOwwl]

34. Don't agree.

It's a lose-lose for Bush.

If he doesn't meet with them, he'll be perceived as cowardly and arrogant.

If he does, he'll spout the usual nonsense, but with Cleland right next to him, he'll come across as an heartless bastard who doesn't give a damn about the feelings about vets.

[Southern Patriot]

39. Exactly. Makes Kerry look like he can't handle the heat and

should stay out of the kitchen.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

62. Makes Kerry look righteously PISSED about AWOL trashing his service

.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

41. Bizarre sentiment - I don't pretend to understand your perspective but

since you think this is a bad idea --- what is YOUR idea? -- the one you think is better than this one? You said 'slug it out' -- what specifically does that mean? What do you suggest? I mean to me, and most others, this certainly does look like fighting back -- since you disagree, what do you think should be done to fight back?

Kerry is, in essence, asking "please don't be mean to me." no, he's highlighting Bush's corruption and hypocrisy.

[Commendatori]

46. My idea would be to highlight

the fact that I WAS in Vietnam, I AM decorated, I was NOT AWOL from the National Guard, etc, and I'd make sure that I did it in a way that the media whores couldn't ignore. Did you ever see the West Wing episode when Bartlett made a crack that was supposedly off camera, but it turns out that he knew it was on the whole time? That's one example of a tactic I'd consider - I'd ask campaing strategists to come up with something better than this.

What do you think he meant when he said "bring it on?" Did you think "take shots at me so that I can send someone to talk to you?"

The fact that I'm not alone on this board, which is usually more united than Dems overall, probably isn't good news, don't you think?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

51. Please be specific. I don't see anything in your post

that Kerry isn't doing already.

What is your specific suggestion?

[quaoar]

57. I'll take a crack at that

Kerry should adopt the same strategy he came up with for the Mekong Delta. He should turn his boat into the incoming fire and spray the shore with lead until they back off.

What he is doing now looks like he is negotiating with Bush. If I were running the Bush campaign, I would invite Cleland and Rassman in for a private chat, pretend for the cameras that I was sympathetic to their plight and then say once again how concerned I was about those terrible 527s.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. Please be specific - don't talk in generalities

like "He should turn his boat into the incoming fire and spray the shore with lead until they back off."

because you and I disagree about that - you say he isn't doing that, I say he is.

So, skipping the generalities and characterizations, what specific actions do you think should be taken?

[Commendatori]

68. If he's shooting at Bush's record,

the message isn't getting out, because I haven't heard him do that - at least since the nomination. Instead of defending his as if he's got something to hide, I'd be attacking. Instead, Kerry is setting up chats and calling vets. To me, that makes him look weak.

So if you actually need something more specific, here it is: go on the offensive loud and long enough about the differences between his record and Bush's non-record until the media whores have no choice to report it.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

61. Wrong. It makes Bush look like a craven AWOL coward

Stop wringing your hands every time someone fights back.

[NightOwwl]

27. Little chickenshit is probably hiding under the bed.

Rate the story!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=5&u=/nm/20040825/pl_nm/campaign_ads_dc

[MoonRiver]

28. Be sure to rate the article 5!

It's now on the Yahoo front page! Let's keep it there!

[molly]

35. I did that and there were 597 votes - avg 3.58

[Southern Patriot]

36. Bad move from perceptions standpoint.

Don't go crying to Bush to "make the mean men quit saying bad things."

Turn the issue into Bush's failure in leadership. Bush can't influence his supporters? Bush won't issue a clear call to stop the lying about Kerry's war record (which Bush has praised)? Then Bush must not be the kind of strong, effetive leader that we need in a time of crisis.

[molly]

38. Who's crying?

* will be after this confrontation. Clearly he has lied about his support for this slander.

[Southern Patriot]

45. Kerry will be perceived as crying 'cause he's sending his

people to ask Bush to stop. People don't really know wether the charges are slander or whether Bush had anything to do with them.

It's all an adult version of macho school yard perceptions. The sooner that you and Kerry advisers realize that, the better.

[Sparkly]

52. I see it as getting in Chimp's face

and saying, "What are you gonna do about it?"

I think it's bold and brilliant. What can Chimpy do that would have him come out looking good?

If Kerry had sent striped-suited lawyers, it would have been different. Sending two veterans to confront the coward is KEY.

[Southern Patriot]

56. They'll be stopped at the gate in the middle of nowhere.

They'll make some statement which Bush will personally ignore and they'll leave.

How is THAT getting in his face? Why do you think that Bush's handlers are vetting every single person going into the rallies? They don't want ANY negativity getting into Bush's personal space.

McClellan will tut-tut about how Kerry ought to disavow ALL 527 groups and ignore the message.

[Sparkly]

66. That's fine!

Hopefully, there'll be video of two combat veterans being stopped on Chimp's behalf. Bush is too scared to meet with a man in a wheelchair.

"How is that getting in his face?" By requiring a response, even if it's stopping them at a gate in the middle of nowhere. It's still a response.

[Southern Patriot]

69. Here's the response: your boss is too weak & ineffective to

confront me directly so he sends a man in a wheelchair to my gate in the middle of nowhere.

McClellan will ridicule it as a pathetic political stunt--- and a lot of TV viewers will see it that way, too.

[Sparkly]

72. I don't think it's Kerry who's looking weak and ineffective

He has confronted Chimp directly, calling him out for hiding behind the SwiftLiars.

It is a political stunt, but I think it's a good one.

[speedoo]

77. sorry, dupe.

Sorry, dupe.

[speedoo]

78. I think you are ignoring the context.

What I mean by context: dumbya's 9/11 derived teflon has been wearing away, because of the economy, Iraq and now because of his weaselly language on this Swiftlies issue and the daily revelations of connections between the Swiftliars and him. This "stunt" (I agree it's a stunt) will work because it's just another way of demanding that dumbya renounce this attack not only on Kerry but all veterans.... that's part of what the letter says... the Swiftliars (and therefore) dumbya are attacking all veterans.

Faux is waiting for video of the event now.

[John_H]

37. Brilliant. Will the TV MW's cover it? Will Dem surrogates ridicule

Chimp for refusing to meet with heroes if he does refuse to meat them?

[bluedog]

55. WOW.Kerry hitting them good

geeze..don't mess with Kerry....Today calls for Rummy to get his ass out...this Crawford showdown.......the lawyer quite bush campaign............way to go Kerry

[Proud2BAmurkin]

59. This is both ruthless and HILARIOUS

.

[michigandem2]

70. This is so awesome...don't let that bastard

go! He started this mess..and he can finish it...he won't but he can if he wanted to!

[Warren DeMontague]

74. They won't get anywhere near him

unless they sign a loyalty waiver.

[jezebel]

76. Carl Cameron on Fox said the Bush camp is giving a letter back to Cleland

Did anyone else see this report about 5 minutes ago. He read it and I was so stunned, it said something like "I do support and honor veterans, ALL veterans and you accused them of atrocities. and then it went on to say something like you have never apologized to the many veterans you slandered.
I was stunned. This is turning into a bloodbath. I think the Bush camp might think they are so hurt by this, they have nothing left to loose and they are actually going to try and condemn Kerry for his anti war activities.
By the way, found y'all through Buzzflash. I hate *

[oasis]

80. Yes, I saw Foxbot Cameron with his weak letter from the Bush camp. The

attempt by Rove to change the subject will fall flat. These two decorated vets are aware of Kerry's anti Vietnam stance but they are moved to challenge Bush on behalf of one who has fought for his country.

[librechik]

90. Bush too scared to come in person--again

letting others do his dirty work

Again

[kwolf68]

81. Welcome

Great forum. Ill probably spend election night on the boards as my entire family either is Repuke or doesnt vote

[Keirsey]

82. grrr

Even in a wheelchair, Max Cleland stands taller than Dubya.

[xkenx]

83. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK

This "pretty-please" crap should stop--it doesn't work against the Rovian machine. The public responds to the media fed clashes of 20 second sound bites, and we need to get ours in. We also need to blow them away on the talk shows. Everyone here should e-mail the shows urging equal time for AWOL BUSH to counter Swift Boat Liars. Here is the one I sent to Hardball.

WELL, NOW THAT YOU'VE GIVEN INORDINATE AIR TIME TO PEOPLE LYING ABOUT OFFICIAL NAVY RECORDS AND EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY TO JOHN KERRY'S HEROICS IN VIETNAM, WHERE ARE THE SHOWS TO PROBE WHERE BUSH WAS DURING HIS SO-CALLED NATIONAL GUARD SERVICE? THE OFFICIAL RECORDS THAT EXIST HAVE BUSH MISSING. ISN'T THAT CALLED AWOL?

[PretzelWarrior]

84. Hit 'em hard. If they don't agree to see him

he looks like a yellow-bellied coward who is too afraid to deal with real veterans with real issues about his ties to the deplorable ShortBoat Vets for Bush.