How could someone want VP Biden when Biden wanted VP McCain in 2004?

[Seen the light]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/05/17/kerry_mccain_ticket_touted_as_way_to_unite_us/

WASHINGTON -- Senator Joseph R. Biden, a senior Democrat, yesterday urged Republican Senator John McCain to run for vice president with the presumptive Democratic nominee, Senator John F. Kerry, in order to heal the ''vicious rift" dividing America.

McCain, of Arizona, ''categorically" ruled out standing with Kerry, but Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he had no second choice.

''I'm sticking with McCain," Biden said.

''I think John McCain would be a great candidate for vice president," Biden, from Delaware, said on NBC's ''Meet the Press," where the two senators appeared together to take questions on Iraq and other subjects.

There's more at the link.

I hadn't seen this posted on DU yet (although I would be shocked if it hadn't been already).

[vi5]

1. First I've seen of it...

..and yeah, that could present problems.

[Muttocracy]

2. hmmm, I'd be curious to hear video

to see if Biden was flattering McCain 'cause he was sitting next to him. Where does this fit in the timelines of Kerry possibly asking McCain (I'm not clear on whether that even happened?)

Next two paragraphs:

''I think John McCain would be a great candidate for vice president," Biden, from Delaware, said on NBC's ''Meet the Press," where the two senators appeared together to take questions on Iraq and other subjects.

''Do I think it's going to happen? No," he said. ''But I think it is a reflection of the desire of this country and the desire of people in both parties to want to see this God-awful, vicious rift that exists in the nation healed, and John and John could go a long way to heal in that rift."

[midnight]

3. Mr. Biden is wrong on this and wrong on giving credit card co.

whatever they wanted.

[wyldwolf]

4. Isn't that Obama's message?

[Clark2008]

35. I thought the message was "change."

Biden was elected to The Hill the year I was born and has been there ever since.

How is that change?

[murbley40]

38. Change is:

every different approach to a problem in order to get a different solution. Effective change is
not necessarily throwing out all the experienced and replacing them with the inexperienced. It is though, partly about replacing the ineffective with effective. Joe is about that kind of change and if Obama does not take advantage of Joe's experience and wisdom........ his loss... and ours.

[Occam Bandage]

5. Back in '04, it was easier to believe McCain was the moderate maverick of '00.

You know, the guy who was pro-science, attacked the religious right, voted against tax cuts...the guy who was nothing like the half-senile Bush clone running this year.

Still, this is a quote that could be pretty damaging. I mean, it's hard for your VP to be an attack dog if he was boosting McCain for the White House in '04.

[gateley]

7. Yeah, many who knew him back then say he's done a 180 and is a totally

different person. I THINK it was Howard Dean who said "I don't even recognize this John McCain."

Biden's been shredding the CURRENT John McCain's policies mercilessly.

[Seen the light]

9. That's not really the point though

You don't see how easily the Republicans could use this in an ad or in their daily talking points?

I don't dislike Biden, but when I saw this, HUGE red flags went off.

[gateley]

14. Yeah, they could use it.

And I think Biden would set them straight.

And they could have a compilation of ALL the people (Dems and Reps) who have mentioned that the John Maverick McCain lives no more. And spots of compilations of what he said THEN, contrasted to what he's saying NOW.

It could be problematic, but not insurmountable, IMO.

But don't worry about it now, we really don't have any idea WHO Obama's going to name.

[Seen the light]

17. Fair enough

Good post. :toast:

[Occam Bandage]

11. Biden certainly has. He's been the most reliable TV attack dog the past few months.

[Debi]

16. Yes he has - and just think what he'd do to McCain's VP choice?

:bounce:

[babylonsister]

6. First off, Biden didn't have a say in any decision AFAIK. Second,

McLame wasn't as pathetic then as he is now.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. You do realize Kerry/McCain would probably have won, right?

I would have voted for Kerry/Falwell... Kerry/Musolini... I'd want to see Kerry's medical records to vote for Kerry/Hitler, but you get the idea.

[gateley]

20. I wonder why McCain demurred? Or was the official offer never tendered? nt

[blm]

21. The offer was never tendered as Kerry stipulated that McCain would have to leave GOP

before he would seriously consider him for VP. Mccain had been speaking out a lot against Bush and Rumsfeld from 2001-2004 and at the time all this was surfacing.

I am quite certain that BushInc reeled him in the same way they always have done with recalcitrant GOPs - blackmail.

[gateley]

22. Ah - thanks for the education. And I agree with your conclusion. :-) nt

[Muttocracy]

10. full transcript at link, excerpt below (more context than above):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4992558/

Russert: Senator McCain, it's the elephant in the room, the story that will not die. This is the front page of The New York Times yesterday. Headline: "Undeterred by McCain Denials, Some See Him as Kerry's No. 2. Despite weeks of steadfast rejections from Senator John McCain, some prominent Democrats are angling for him to run for vice president alongside Senator John Kerry, creating a bipartisan ticket that they say would instantly transform the presidential race. "Senator McCain would not have to leave his party," Kerrey said. "He could remain a Republican, would be given some authority for selection of Cabinet people. The only thing he would have to do is say, `I'm not going to appoint any judges who would overturn Roe v. Wade,'" the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion, while "Mr. McCain has said he opposes." What do you think of Senator Kerrey's recommendation?

McCain: I'd like to have the camera move over to a palm tree to start with.

Russert: Yeah.

McCain: With friends like Bob, who needs...

Biden: I'm about to jump in, John, so hang on.

McCain: I've said categorically--categorically, I will not be vice president of the United States. I will not be a candidate. And I mean that. I'm happy in the Senate. I'd like to maintain my role. I am a loyal Republican. I am supporting President Bush's re-election. I am campaigning for it. And I'd like to mention one other thing. The bullet played in all these stories is John McCain is angry at President Bush about 2000. Look, that was four years ago. My constituents don't want me to look back in anger. They want me to represent them. I work with President Bush on a lot of issues and I want him re-elected and I'm not looking back in anger at anything. That's not what my constituents deserve. So I'm afraid this will not be the last conversation you and I have on this issue and I categorically say no, but I can only hope.

Russert: Senator Biden, what do you think of John McCain as a Democratic candidate for vice president?

Biden: I think John McCain would be a great candidate for vice president. I mean it. I know John doesn't like me saying it, but the truth of the matter is, it is. We need to heal the red and the blue here, man, the red states and the blue states. And John McCain is a loyal Republican. God, he drives me crazy how loyal he is as a Republican as much of a friend as he is. We disagree on a lot of things, but I'll tell you, the fact of the matter is that we've got to bring together the red and the blue here. This is a divided nation. And I think that--I would still urge John Kerry to pick up the phone and call John McCain. He'll say no probably. But I think John Kerry has an obligation to do that for the way he wants to heal. And I know John will listen. He'll say no, but I'm going to tell you, I'm counting on him being a more loyal American than he is a loyal Republican.

And, John, I'm not so sure you're so happy about the Senate. I'd like to see you president instead of the guy we have now. So--but you're a great senator. But I think you'd also be doing a great service. Do I think it's going to happen? No. But I think it is a reflection of the desire of this country, and the desire of people in both parties, to want to see this God-awful, vicious rift that exists in the nation healed, and John and John could go a long way to healing that rift.

Russert: Senator McCain, as an American, you can stay a Republican. You can be a loyal Republican. It would be a fusion or a unity ticket. Would you contemplate it in any way, shape, or form? Would you take Senator Kerry's phone call if you knew he was calling about it?

McCain: I will always take anyone's phone calls but I will not--I categorically will not do it. But I would like to add one additional quick comment. Joe's right, there's too much partisanship in America and there's too much partisanship in the Senate and there's too much partisanship. We've got to have people sit down and start working on issues that are not partisan in nature and start working on them so we can do our job as legislating and working for America. And I'm very disturbed about the level of partisanship which has led to gridlock. And we're not doing our job as our constituents expect us to do.

Russert: All right, Biden. McCain is out. Who is in?

Biden: I'm sticking with McCain. It's safer right now. Look, there's a lot of qualified people. I don't know how John's going to go about the--John Kerry is going to go about the choice. I think the single most important thing that John Kerry has to do is, the day he announces that person for the Tim Russerts of the world--there are not many of you, but for the big feet, as they say, in the press--to say that makes sense, that guy could be president, or that woman could be president. I think that's the single most important thing for people, when he or she is announced, say that person could be president.

Russert: What if John Kerry picked his vice president and also said, "I want Joe Biden for secretary of state and John McCain for secretary of defense?"

Biden: Well, if John will do it, I'll do it.

Russert: Senator McCain, do we have a deal?

McCain: No, no. No, no, we don't have a deal. But I certainly look forward to following Secretary of State Biden on your show.

[Debi]

13. Thanks JIOOU! n/t

[Muttocracy]

15. wish we could find video - they were joking around a bit there

in any case, the Globe excerpt is leaving out some context IMHO.

[Debi]

18. I'd say! I guess this would be considered an endorsement as well?

[Muttocracy]

19. and Coleman is clapping! Run away! nt

[book_worm]

12. well apparently Kerry entertained the idea as well.

[karynnj]

32. He did consider if after McCain people approached him

McCain has flip flopped on many issues since then. Then when Kerry first entertained it, beating Bush was seen as a long shot. The 2 vets together could have won and unified the country if McCain was say where Hagel was on Iraq - this would have minimized the differences. As it was, the idea was rejected before it got far and an offer was never made - though McCain told reporters at least 3 or 4 versions of what happened means he lied at some point. Kerry said one and only one thing - and the Paul Reichoff (sp??) account of meeting with Kerry with other Iraq vets in early summer and suggesting McCain and being told he was off the table in a book not all that friendly to Kerry matches Kerry's version.

[Dinger]

23. Biden Will Prove To Be A Huge Mistake

And I fear my days on DU are numbered.

[gateley]

24. Why would your days be numbered just because you don't like Biden?

You're not alone in that, by any means.

[elleng]

34. Cool it,

Dinger!

[jillan]

25. If that's the case - why was he out on the campaign trail for Kerry?

I mean, really.

[karynnj]

31. Nice picture of both - was that from Kerry's speech at the University

of Pennsyvania on terrorism. I think Biden introduced him that day and was on mic at the end telling Kerry he hit it out of the ballpark.

Biden was a key surrogate in 2004. He did hang onto McCain for far longer than Kerry - and in 2006 said on one Imus show that he thought he would like McCain as VP. The fact is that as Kerry pointed out so well on MTP, McCain 2008 is not the same as McCain 2004 - or earlier. (I think by 2006, the hand writing was on the wall - but it often takes a lot to change an opinion.) The fact is that in 2004, Kerry/McCain would have won - though it was impossible as their opinions on Iraq were far apart.

[inthebrain]

26. WOW!!!!!!

That's crazy!!!!!

I didn't know about this at all.

[styersc]

27. Wow Biden was willing to cross party lines to heal national rift.

Putting country ahead of everything else.

I can see where this might be a problem.

Glad Obama is not one of those "work with the other side" kind of Democrats.

[gateley]

28. ...

:thumbsup:

[inthebrain]

33. How is nominating a veep that's for the Iraq War

going to heal any rift?

That would have widened it past the point of repair. If Kerry took that advice there is no chance in hell the Democrats even have a shot this year. As a matter of fact, it would have had a devasting impact on those that have come into the fold to give this party helping hand over the years.

[Skwmom]

29. Another example of BAD judgment.

[Fire_brand]

30. If Biden is the pick, and this is brought up

it will give him the perfect opportunity to talk about how McCain has moved to the right since then and has aligned himself with Bush

[Eurobabe]

36. Oh get over it, that was so 2004.

:eyes:

This is NOW.

[thewiseguy]

37. Actually that strategy could have paid off.