Violence in New York - The biggest mistake liberals could be making

[burythehatchet]

If there are liberal groups planning violence in New York, we are doomed. You know for sure that the opposition is going to try and rile things up themselves. Its happened before and it will happen again. If our folks respond with violence we will be body slammed by armed forces.

I believe this is one reason why NYC remains on orange alert.

Further, I believe that the actions taken by the police at this time will set a new, lower bar for what the police can do to protesters. The Florida protest supression incident was the prequel to all this.

All this leads to getting the public ready for election day. There will be controvercy. There will be violence then. And they will have reached a point of total physical and violent supression.

I hope there won't be any violence in New York.

[CarolynEC]

1. I agree, violence would be a big mistake, but...

... it's not the liberals I'm worried about. It's the rethugs who are going to be planted throughout the crowds, with the specific aim of starting trouble.

[JuniperLea]

5. great minds...

and all that;)

[CarolynEC]

11. Definitely -- I think we're ALL bracing for dirty tricks.

[burythehatchet]

6. Absolutely.

I don't have a lot of confidence that our folks won't respond.

[JuniperLea]

2. big window of opportunity

for some phoney righties in liberal clothing to do some dirty stuff and blame it all on the libs! i guess i'm just suspicious of everything after all we've been through lately!

[Catfight]

3. NO..the biggest mistake liberals made was to ALLOW Dumbya

to steal an election!

Besides, I'm sure those liberal NY cops will protect those anti-union Republicians! hehehehe

[Melodybe]

4. I pray for a peaceful protest, but I worry more about repub infiltrators

than dems causing violence.

[Sparkle]

7. The violence will come from republican plants pretending to

be liberal protestors.

[JuniperLea]

8. with all the extra police

that will be there, if someone gets away with dumb stuff, and tries to blame it on the libs... let's just say i'm going to be pissed as hell!!!


edited to say it looks like we are on the same page here. double edged sword, that:(

[blondeatlast]

22. The police will be protesting too.

See NYT link below.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. The only ones planning any violence

are the repug brownshirts.

They will not succeed. There are too many of the rest of us.

[wryter2000]

10. Yup

Violence would be a terrible mistake. Unfortunately, police can take a non-violent protest and create violence by herding people around roughly and not giving people instruction on what they want the protesters to do. That's what happened in Miami.

I doubt the NYPD are great lovers of *, though. I'm hoping they behave as the San Francisco police did during the pre-war protests. There were bad protesters out there with weapons, trying to get something bad started. The police were pretty good at dealing with those folks and dealing fairly with other protesters.

I think it's largely up to how the police behave.

[Stew225]

12. It seems that we're in a catch 22 situation

in light of the probability that the repugs will enlist the aid of professional, uh, violent protestors. Let's hope that there are plenty of video cameras to record the facts. Obviously, I'm not referring to any of the media's video cams.

What a sad culture in which we now live.

[coalition_unwilling]

13. The biggest mistake liberals could be making?

Silence=Consent. Again, the purpose of the protests is to show that dissent to BushCo is deep and broad-based.

The only groups planning violence are probably agents provocateurs with the New York Police Department, Department of Homeland Security, FBI, CIA, DIA or (pick your favorite spook agency here).

I've been to many massive demonstrations in Los Angeles and they have all remained almost entirely non-violent; I expect that protestors at NYC will also for the most part manifest as that. Expect "police riots" a la Chicago '68.

[burythehatchet]

17. Numbers and documentation will matter

I would recommend that everyone have a video camera handy

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. NYC Police fighting Repub Mayor on contract. Not much sympathy

New York City Police are battling Republican mayor Bloomberg over a new contract for some time. They are even contemplating picketing the convention. They won't have much sympathy for commanding officers inciting them to a police riot.

[GalleryGod]

14. We Should Go "Creative" Rather than Violent!

Like the balloon held banner in Grand Central Station.
And the Rooftop Banners around NYC!

[NV1962]

15. Instead of tieing violence to liberals, disavow violence - period

I think it's wrong to 'fear' violence because of the 'backlash:' as has been pointed out before in this topic, that's precisely what the wingnuts pine for - if they're not actively pursuing it.

Instead of 'pre-emptively admitting sorrow' I advocate for disavowing violence as a NON-LIBERAL phenomenon.

Whoever engages in violence is not a liberal but a thug - period.

Motto for the Day: we Liberals are really tough on security!

[David Zephyr]

16. Article in Current "The Nation" Echos Your Thoughts, Burythehatchet

The other side of this, of course, is that the right-wing is aways ready to have an agent provocateur start something to discredit the left. This is what happened with the "Haymarket Affair" in Chicago in the late 1880's.

I hope that everything there stays peaceful, too. Crossing my fingers for peace, but I am concerned with you.

[gristy]

18. Liberals, almost by definition, are not planning any violence

Criminals, by definition, are planning violence. But remember there are 30,000 cops to snuff anything that gets out of hand. The challenge is to counter the repuke spin on any criminal activity that goes on during the convention.

[hughee99]

19. I very much hope that things don't get violent, but

There are A LOT of pissed off people who are going to NYC. As much as I'd like to believe that the only violence will come from infiltrators, I'm not sure that this will be the case.

[cheshire]

20. first sign of positive protest

NYers have made huge signs and placed them on roofs along the flight path GDUB will take to the convention. Gotta love NY.

[blondeatlast]

21. It's the anarchists and the agent provocateurs I'm worried about.

Also, keep in mind that the police will be protesting too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/19/nyregion/19labor.html?8br

[bobbyboucher]

23. I THINK WE GOT THE MESSAGE!

But there is only so much we can do. If crazies or agents provocatuers (?) start some rowdy shit, what can we do?

Why don't we all wear buttons.

[jonnyblitz]

28. ya think? the umpteenth handwringing thread on the protest. n/t

[liberal N proud]

24. You can bet, the neocons will incite any violence

They will get in protesters face and push on them as much as possible. They will make it look like they did nothing.
Like two kids in the back seat. "He started it, no he did!"

:spank:

[OneBlueSky]

25. protesters . . . when you see groups of cops, start chanting . . .

"More pay for police!" . . . worked well for us in DC 35 years ago . . .

[liberal N proud]

26. Excellent!

[blondeatlast]

29. They will be protesting, too...

Contract talks have been sent to binding arbitration.

Seeking to turn up the pressure on the mayor, Patrick Lynch, the president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, said for the first time yesterday that his union might picket the convention and ask Republican delegates - along with employees at Madison Square Garden - to honor the picket line.

"We're keeping all our options open, and that is certainly an option,'' he said.

Such a move would put Republican delegates in an uncomfortable position because crossing the line might be seen as showing disrespect for the nation's police officers - a group that President Bush's campaign is wooing assiduously. And New York's police officers, like its firefighters, are held in special regard because of their role in confronting the Sept. 11 attack.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/19/nyregion/19labor.html?8br

Edit: html-challenged

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. Now that's using imagination! I second that!

That is the type of positive protest that can only help. Good one!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

27. Don't mis-characterize. Liberals not planning violence, disrupters are.

There may be liberals among those planning violence, but it is a mischaracterization to focus on liberals. The ones planning violence are primarily anarchists and disrupters. Get that straight.

Bring lots of cameras, still and video. If you see anyone doing an illegal act that endangers life, limb, or property, photo them and surround them and turn them over to police. If anyone advocates or incites violence, surround them and turn them over.

Photo anyone who joins police lines or appears from within them. Photo anyone who looks out of place (they won't have black oxfords and bandanas, but you get the idea). Photo any police charges the instant contact is made with demonstrators.

Get your videos and photos to bloggers away from the action so that the images can't be confiscated. Don't volunteer images to the police at the time as evidence. Hold it to copy and submit it formally with receipts soon after. If you take too many pictures, better than too few.

Always hold personal safety highest.