Contact Kerry campaign over your digust of ad removal!

[AmerDem]

Contact National Headquarters
Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc.
P.O. Box 34640
Washington, DC 20043
202-712-3000
202-712-3001 (fax)
202-336-6950 (TTY)

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http://www.johnkerry.com/contact/

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Why?

Is it the only ad they have? The only issue we have?

[AmerDem]

8. It was an effective ad that stated the TRUTH!

The truth from the 2000 repuke debate between McCain and shrub. it shows the direct history of shrub trashing war heros for his own gain. there is nothing wrong with showing the american people the truth!

[mbali]

15. And you and countless other voters know all about it even though it likely

did not even run in your city.

THAT's the important part. Kerry has gotten a huge bang for his buck and can still look like the good guy.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mbali]

28. Most Americans WOULDN'T have seen the ad anyway

since it would not have run nationwide. But it's getting plenty of coverage for free.

And I suggest that you change you language when addressing me.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mbali]

57. No - in three states for just one week

Nevada, New Mexico and Pennsylvania.

And yes, I know this.

[MsUnderstood]

2. What are you talking about?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. No can do. We need to respect McCain's wishes

I'm afraid.

[hatrack]

4. Yes, we have no choice but to obey McCain's wishes

Just like Bush has no choice but to obey Kerry's wishes.

Whatever.

[Malva Zebrina]

20. Yes, the Republican Senator deserves more respect than

people who have committed themself to working hard day and night for Kerry because----?

He is a fellow vet.

Well that is commendable in some circumstances, but handing out favors simply because someone is a fellow vet is not wise. Imagine if a usurper in, say, a place of business, is causing damage to the company and a good deal of damage to a majority of workers. Wpuld the boss keep him on because he is a fellow vet?



This is goddam war with a fascist at the helm destroying us. Damnit. It looks as if Kerry still does not understand that if you give the gastard an inch, he will take a yard . and he will, you can bet on it. Waiting to see the reaction. Bush can now brag that he did not back down from freedom of speech and he can, with some degree claim he is the stronger becasue he does not back down.

In this election, perception is everything.

I have lost a good deal of enthusiasm I gained over the past week thinking that Kerry was a smart fighter--not so smart this move and it is a big one.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. What a wasted effort.

Spend your energy complaining to the Bush campaign instead.

[AmerDem]

9. wasted effort?

holy flying fuck!

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[napi21]

6. No. I think Kerry did the right thing.

I assume you're talking about the ad with McCain. Well, McCain said he didn't want to be used in the ads. Kerry was honoring the wishes of whis friend. I think it made Kerry look like the honorable one compared to shrub who just says they're not his ads.

[faithnotgreed]

13. exactly. kerry has made his point and this protracted fight over vietnam

can now settle down.
as it should.

kerry looks like the adult and will now move on to talk about the issues. bush and the media required he get down in the mud to fight so he did but now he has to move on.

[mbali]

7. Why, indeed?

Kerry's making the smart move.

There's a reason that he survived in Vietnam, has been a successful politician for more than 20 years and is the Democratic nominee. The man's not stupid. He certainly knows a little more about campaign strategy than any of us do - and also doesn't need to be second-guessed by us in the peanut gallery at every turn.

He knows what he's doing - get off his back.

[kentuck]

10. Bad idea.

In my opinion. Short-term thinking. Counter productive to the larger strategy of the campaign. Not wise.

[NV1962]

11. Sorry, no disgust here either... I think Kerry did the right thing

Unlike the SBVT maggots, the McCain ads already had their intended effect: reminding people that McCain and Kerry respect each other... From one real veteran who bled in Vietnam to another... Which brings us to the subject of AWOL...

[LTR]

12. Kerry pulling the ad was a classy move

And it makes a pretty powerful statement.

It shows Kerry is able to run a dignified race. He respected the wishes of his friend John McCain.

Sure wish Dumbya could show the same consideration.

I think the campaign did the right thing. The ad did have some impact, and his campaign pulling the ad will get even more press.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[mbali]

19. And Americans HAVE been shown the truth - that's why we all know about it

Kerry made the smart move. The information's out there, he doesn't have to spent millions, he raised the bar for Bush's responses to complaints about his own ads, and he's once again shown that he's a man of honor who respects his fellow veterans.

[SidDithers]

21. Riiiiiight....

and I'm sure the many here appreciate being called clueless, too.

Kerry is honoring a personal friendship by taking down the ad. I think that Kerry has demonstrated that he knows a little bit about campaigning - maybe give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Sid

[AmerDem]

23. if the shoe fits!

[NV1962]

25. Ummm... There are more reasons to pull an ad than 'untruthfulness'

Kerry can run 'truthful' ads until he's blue in the face, but I think it's a tad more important to focus on runing effective ads.

Mission accomplished for the McCain ads, methinks; I suppose you can and do see it differently. But in the end it's about winning a majority of votes - the stakes are too high for righteousness, nobility and moral obligations aside.

Ads need to have bang for their buck; effectiveness hinges on 'instant impact' - Kerry can't afford to 'educate' a mostly ignorant country first, in order to 'get' alternative ads that are arguably more 'meaningful.'

Then again, that's just my 0.02.

[AmerDem]

30. You don't think that ad was effective?

What in the name of GOD do you feel would be an effective ad?

[NV1962]

39. No idea what prompted that question...

...since I believe I used the expression "mission accomplished," didn't I?

BTW, I see an interesting parallel between the (presumed) reasons for pulling the ad by the Kerry campaign and this very topic. Lemme explain.

The McCain ads were effective (stressed again, just in case) among its target audience, namely those who actually give a flying fart about how cozy McCain and Kerry really are (which narrows it down to a pretty small and therefore expensive target, no?)

But let's bypass whether the ad was effective (hence, cost-effective) or not - that's a matter of perspective, absent a fool-proof way of measuring it before the polls open. Just like here, in this topic, there's a majority mindset that is askew from the core message of that ad (comparable with your insistance on delivering 'the truth')

The point of campaign ads -- as I believe also shared by a majority of opinions so far here -- is not about being right at the best possible price, but about getting the maximum effect possible at a pretedermined (relatively 'fixed') budget level.

That difference is the essence, I think, that defines where you and I lean in different directions; yes, 'being right' is ideal - but winning the elections is more important.

Doing the right thing is more important than doing things right, as it were. Or put in more ideological terms: in US national politics, pragmatism prevails over idealism.

I hope that's more clarifying.

[AmerDem]

46. misread your post

[DancingBear]

26. That is not the point

Kerry, through Cleland and others, has successfully painted The Boy King as you describe above. Do not fear - he/they will continue with this. I'm sure they have many more bullets in the gun, and they'll fire them when needed.

Now, think about what pulling this ad does for Bush, and for McCain. McCain, in a weird sort of "gotcha" way, is now almost obligated to continue to disavow the SV ads. Kerry has once again taken the high road, and painted McCain into a corner of his own making. The noose is tightening more and more around JM's neck, and the only way he can loosen it is to go after Georgie.

Georgie, now, is REALLY pissed. Kerry has taken SBVT, turned it on its head, and is almost BEGGING IdiotBoy to run another one. He can't count on McCain's help due to what Kerry just did, and if it turns out that McCain does help him well here comes that ad back again.

Kerry is getting an "A" so far in Political Campaigning.

[AmerDem]

29. This isn't FEAR ...get it

It'S using ever truthful advantage to show this fascist fuck for what he is. Why not even have anymore advertisments then? what is your idea of an effective a? What ever idea you try to come up with , it wouldn't have been as geniune as that McCain ad! It was pure undoctored TRUTH! what is so wrong with that? Are we now never going to look back on history to better serve us today?

THIS IS FUCKING CRAZY!

[DancingBear]

33. Listen - nothing is wrong with the truth

It's merely a matter of how you get it out there.

How much good would it do if the ad ran, McCain came out and said how "disappointed" he was in JK for running it over his objections, talk radio jumps all over it, and the Great Unwashed Middle who will decide this election decide JK is not playing fair?

Counter that with Cleland sitting in the sun while The Boy King runs and hides. THAT is something they can understand, and what they see is the beginning of the exposing of George W. Bush as a fraud. As much as Kerry would like a first round knockout, he knows the way to win this fight is via TKO, and he's doing just that.

The strategy is here is Death By A Thousand Cuts. It will work. The more I watch Kerry, the more I realize that this son of a bitch is one brilliant campaigner.

Just hang on, that's all I'm asking.

[SidDithers]

38. I agree, DancingBear...

If this ad was the only "arrow in the quiver" then it would be a mistake to pull it. But it isn't.

What the original poster (who, incidently, needs to cut back on the caffiene a bit) fails to understand is that selective outrage is more effective than "wild-eyed" anger at every issue. There are times for attacks and times for subtlety. Both are needed during the course of a campaign.

Sid

[AmerDem]

45. Then it's time to start questioning Mc Cain!

Who the fuck is McCain to say what is right and what is wrong on this issue? Here is a guy who had his wife and children destroyed by this fascist fuck and now he is getting sweet kisses on his head from him!

There is NOTHING wrong with showing a PUBLIC debate in which Mc Cain participated and a history of shrubs smears are proven! If Mc Cain doesn't like that, well that is too bad!

[DancingBear]

54. Does the term "hoisted on your own petard" mean anything?

This is what JK is doing to both Bush and McCain.

Try and understand this - Bush is SCREWED on this deal! You think he WANTED Kerry to pull that ad? Hell, no! He wanted them right out there in plain sight so he could rant and rave and yell "See, they do it too! Look, look!"
And he wanted McCain riding shotgun with him, in another of Krazy Karls "good guy, bad guy" moments.

So Kerry gently inserts the dagger, wipes the blood, and puts it away. Cut #1 of 1000. To be continued.

[mbali]

31. It shows that McCain is treated with more respect by Bush's opponent

than by Bush himself, whom McCain has endorsed.

McCain continues to ignore McCain's request to disavow the SBV ads while Kerry showed great deference to his fellow veteran.

Shows that the bond of blood between combat veterans is much stronger than any connection between McCain and Bush and makes Bush look like the petty toy soldier that he really is.

As I've said - smart move.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[AmerDem]

34. Better question for you Socrates.

How many presidential elections has he lost? McCain LOST the chance at a major one ( thanks to taking the "HIGHROAD" with that fascist fuck ).There is absolutely nothing wrong with calling shrub out on his repeated past behavior especially when it was so despicable!

[mbali]

40. You aren't criticizing McCain's strategy -

your obscene rants are about Kerry's methods, not McCain's.

And your ravings notwithstanding, there are many ways for Kerry to call Bush on his bad behavior - and he is doing just that. He has just simply chosen a much more clever strategy than wasting his limited campaign funds on an ad that he's already gotten plenty of mileage from.

Campaigns are won by cunning and skill - which Kerry is demonstrating in spades - not by pouring money down every rabbit hole that Karl Rove digs.

[AmerDem]

42. Removing this ad is Mc Cains strategy!

McCain played his hand the same way back in 2000. BTW, If you so don't like my "obscene rants" why haven't you used the ignore button? You aren't going to get the best of both worlds here sunshine. If you want to play, then play if you are offended, then leave!

[mbali]

49. You're privy to McCain's and Kerry's strategies?

And, of course, know exactly why Kerry's wrong and you're absolutely right. My.

FYI - I'm not offended by your obscenities. I just think your hysterical and obscene rantings make you appear ridiculous and, thus, completely undermine any point that you're trying to make. But if that doesn't concern you, so be it.

[Democat]

59. Anyone at DU has won as many presidential races as John Kerry

To answer your question.

[goodhue]

18. How is this productive?

Move on indeed.

[mzmolly]

24. Well actually I'd rather contact cable news stations and encourage them to

air the ad, while the discuss the fact that John Kerry is removing it.

That's what they did to the Swiftboatliars. They gave them free air time while discussing the content.

I am glad Kerry took the high road, it would be hypocritical of him not to.

[AmerDem]

27. Your are kidding me right?

You are actually going to compare the Swift Boat Liars ad to the Kerry's featuring McCain? On the one hand you have pure fabrication that the media played more then the time buys of the liars and on the other hand you have direct quotes on video showing shrubs history of screwing over war hero and to boot the media never showed it?

WOW fucking WOW!

[mzmolly]

58. Of course I don't compare the two ads, where on earth did you get that!?

:(

[flpoljunkie]

36. Looks like CNN has "moved on" today, leaving Kerry having taken high road!

They are on Kobie Bryant, Laci Peterson and the Ayatollah Al Sistani's return to Najaf, it seems.

It looks like I spoke too soon. CNN briefly on it again citing the latest Los Angeles poll, but pointing out the numbers fall within the margin or error. Very quick spot, though!

[mbali]

44. This is not the end of it, though

Like a savvy chess player, Kerry has set the board beautifully - he brushed back Bush and put McCain in a difficult spot.

The Swift Boat controversy did very little overall damage to Kerry. On the other hand, it has made Bush look petty, mean and underhanded. Moreover, Kerry - with Cleland's willing help and McCain's grudging assistance - has done a brilliant job of tying Bush' past attacks into a pattern of smears against Vietnam vets who threaten him politically.

In this context, it will be VERY hard for Bush to try any of this again with Kerry this fall. If he even LOOKS like he's questioning Kerry's service (either directly or through one of the cover groups he hides behind), not only can Kerry shut him down with "There you go again!" but the press is also likely to side with him, given the amount of ammunition he's provided them.

Moreover, Kerry has effectively neutralized any advantage Bush gets from McCain's support, since McCain's alignment with Bush under these circumstances appears to be self-serving, incongruous and based on little more than pure partisan politics.

Checkmate.

[rocktivity]

37. The ad was never meant to be run long-term

Kerry ran that ad PRECISELY because knew that McCain would ask him to stop--that's what he WANTED! It makes McCain look like a flip-flopper at best, and a weirdo at worst, now that he's embracing Bush. And it makes Bush look petty and stubborn and self-serving for not condemning the Smear-Boaters.

Yesterday, Kerry aimed his political swiftboat at Crawford, Texas, and beached it in Bush's front yard. Bush hid out in his jungle. Today, Kerry neutralized McCain and slammed the Smear-Boat controversey back into Bush's court. Bush has admitted that Kerry served honorably, so why NOT express disapproval of the Smear-Voters? Because they have ties to the Bush regime? Your move, Georgie!

:headbang:
rocknation

[mbali]

41. Beautifully said!

[goodhue]

43. Indeed

The move neutralizes McCain just as Bush was trying to play McCain card. Not only was this the correct move from Kerry but it was very well timed. I simply don't understand the anguish over this move.

[AmerDem]

47. It wasn't?

Where did you get that info and do you consider less then a week on the internet and 1 day on tv "long term"?

[emulatorloo]

55. Excellent Points

:yourock:

[Guaranteed]

48. While I disagree, I don't care nearly as much about that in comparison

to the fact that the Kerry and Bush campaigns just made a deal to destroy the 1st Amendment.

Does anyone give a shit about that? Or is this just politics? Are we going to let them get away with playing games with our rights?

[AmerDem]

52. Maybe you should start a new subject heading on it.

This thread doesn't involve the 1st amendment. You would be much better served to start a new thread.

[geek tragedy]

51. The Circular Firing Squad is forming.

Here's an idea--why not blitz some media whores instead--and talk about Kerry taking the high road.

Unlike Shrub and the IOC.

[AmerDem]

53. Who is involved in your "circular firing squad"?

[geek tragedy]

56. Those who want to bombard Kerry with emails for pulling his ad n/t

[AmerDem]

60. OH, you mean all the hearfelt Dems out there

That recognize the ad to be truthful, effective and in a clean spirit of debate? Well, if they consider these people to be part of a "circular firing squad" i'de hate to know what they think of the rest of his "supporters'

[fishnfla]

61. No will do

Will cut them a check though and a little "thumbs up" action for doing the right thing.