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Clinton 92 vs Obama 2008: Can we win again?

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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 03:48 AM
Original message
Clinton 92 vs Obama 2008: Can we win again?
In 92 Clinton ran as a "new democrat." He pretty forcefully articulated a coherent set of policy prescriptions that promised a "new" way of deploying government -- something sort of sitting in between the Republican's anti-government, pro-market trickle down supply-side *** and old fashioned bureaucratic liberalism. I wasn't totally on board with those prescriptions at all. But Clinton's ideas were detailed and well thought out -- or at least one got the impression that they were. Though Clinton had and still has a certain amount of personal charisma and charm, it wasn't really his personal narrative that carried the day in '92. His victory depended on lots of things, but a crucial element was the widespread perception that he had a really fresh and detailed approach to governing that offered hope that he really might transcend past divide and stalemates -- the brain dead politics of the past, and all that. Of course, we all know it didn't all work out as planned. Partly because the Clintons made an utter hash of things like healthcare and partly because they underestimated how ruthless and determined the Republican opposition would prove to be.

But I'm not thinking about how Clinton governed. I'm thinking only about how he managed to win the '92 election. I'm trying to draw a lesson from that victory for Obama.

Clearly, there are certain similarities between Clinton circa 92 and Obama circa 08. Both promise something "new" that somehow transcends old ways of doing thing. Both Clinton 92 and Obama 08 were in a way unexpected bolts out of the blue. (But unlike Obama, Clinton didn't have to face any real democratic heavyweights in the primaries. All the heavyweights decided not to run when Bush the First was at 92% approval. So Obama's accomplishment in winning the nomination is much more impressive than Clinton's, I think. )

But I think there is a difference in style and emphasis between Obama and Clinton '92. I'm not sure what it portends, but I think it might be important. And I think Obama would do well in his speech to borrow something of Clinton's style -- though not his substance.

Again, Bill Clinton's campaign was a campaign of richly detailed "new ideas" and a seemingly well-defined new approach to governance. And it wasn't all just empty rhetoric. Clinton proposed many, many departures from past democratic and republican orthodoxy. Remember, for example, his promise to "end Welfare as we know it." That sort of thing, as I recall, was constantly front and center in Clinton's 92 campaign.

I'm not at all saying that Obama has no new ideas or policies. But two things seem clear to me. First, he is not yet identified by the electorate at large with a concrete set of governing ideas. People know that his brand is "change" but I don't think that they yet have a very thick sense of what sort of change Obama promises. I THINK (but this is just a guess) that most people (at least most people who don't read policy white papers and the like) think that for Obama change mostly is about "the way Washington runs." I don't think that most people associate a set of detailed policy changes with Obama. Rather they think of his promised change more in terms of the style of our politics. He promises a politics that is less divisive, less dirty, more uplifting, more empowering. But what the exact policy content of that politics would be, i think many casual voters would be very hard pressed to say.

Of course, people do know that he's a democrat and a relatively liberal or progressive one. And they certainly have some sense of what that means. But I doubt that they think that he has a set of truly distinctive policy prescriptions of the sort that were Clinton's trademark in '92.

Where do these thoughts lead? Well, listening to some talking heads tonight while channel surfing, someone said that a main goal of the Convention should be to have Obama tell his story ((while having others do the work of defining McCain.) I guess that's decent advice. But it seems to me that Obama has to seize the moment to make this election a referendum not on himself and his narrative and personality, but a referendum of two competing futures for the country. He has to turn the discussion away from himself, toward us. I'm pretty confident that he can do that.

But the test of whether he succeeds, I think, will be not if the voters just coming in come away with a better sense of who OBama is, but a better sense of why electing Obama will make a concrete difference in their lives and the life of the country. I think we almost certainly win if voters spend the next few months digesting Obama's challenging and exciting new ideas about where we should be going over the next 4 to 8 years. I think we may well lose if votes spend the next few months talking about who Obama is and what in his experience and history makes him ready to be president.

I think the way he reaches those working class and rural voters who haven't yet fully signed on is to focus like a laser on them and their needs and why a democratic government will be better for them.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Obama has won the hearts of what I'll call aspirational voters -- voters who want to see their country be better, to better reflect their highest values, to be a better citizen of the world, a better steward of the planet, etc. But I think he hasn't won the hearts of many "needs" voters -- voters who look to the government to ameliorate their own lives in concrete and tractable ways.

He needs to give a speech and put on a convention that both reenergizes the aspirational voters and reaches deep into the hearts of those needs voters too. To do that he should borrow a little of Clinton '92's style, if not his substance. Or so it seems to me.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Lets be honest
Bush the 1st lost that election because Perot split the right's vote. I give Clinton props for not spiraling down into oblivion during the election - a wonderous feat, no doubt about it! But Clinton didn't really win in 92. He just lost less than the other guys.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think you underestimate what Clinton did in '92.
It's true that Bush was, well, Bush. But he was the incumbent. He had "won" a war and all that jazz. Plus polls show that Perot's voters would have gone for Clinton -- can't remember the exact %. IT's a myth that Perot took more votes from Bush than from Clinton.

Clinton had broad appeal, despite the scandals and obvious personal foibles I think because his campaign was relentlessly about ideas that he claimed and many people believe would make a concrete difference in their lives.


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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. that's exactly the way I remember it, kennetha
yes INDEED
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. glad somebody remembers it the same way
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Perot took equally from the two candidates, and that was only on Election Day. Prior to that
the polls consistently showed him taking MORE from Clinton then from Bush--that's why Bush insisted on including him in the debates. In 96 he took more from Clinton then from Dole.

Steve
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. in either case my main point stands
Clinton won the plurality that he did because he ran a campaign of ideas that seemed like they would make a concrete difference in people's lives and would be a decisive break from the past.

He won despite has many personal problems.

I'm suggesting that Obama needs to use his acceptance speech to do more than retell his story and frame his own narrative. He needs to make it at least as much about ideas and he needs to be concrete rather than abstract.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Bush NEEDED to lose and ran worst campaign in history. He expected impeachment after Dec1992 BCCI
Edited on Mon Aug-25-08 10:31 AM by blm
report was released. Jackson Stephens had his boy in Arkansas ready to go and he bankrolled Clinton's primary campaign - ready to play clean up for GHWBush and Stephens, and the rest of their powerful cronies like the Dubai and Saudi royals.

We were all snowed into believing Clinton would be the FRESH AIR this nation needed after all the corruption of IranContra, BCCI and Iraqgate, and instead BushInc got protection throughout the 90s guaranteed, while BushInc regrouped and came back stronger than ever.


Thanks alot Bill.
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. The exit polls contradict the claim about Perot taking more from Bush then Clinton (eom)
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. Ok, I'll take the Perot split lesson
But I stand by my point, which is that Clinton didn't win in '92 so much as he just didn't lose as badly as Bush.

Apart from that, which I think is more semantics than not, I'm in agreement with your assesment, and believe Obama has a head start over Clinton - of the two, it's my personal opinion that Obama is the better person, with the better judgement. A little more clarity of message certainly won't hurt his chances...
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. We were not at war in 1992. The Iron Curtain had fallen and the election was solely about...
domestic affairs. The Democrats have won 3 prez elections in my lifetime (76, 92, 96) and those were elections in which national security and foregn affairs were not the number one issue. 1976 was about Watergate and GOP corruption, 1992 was all about domestic affairs after we "won" the Cold War.

Presidential elections are almost always about national security and foregn affairs and this one is no different. The polls saying people care more about the economy or gas prices etc don't tell the story.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, Bush had "won" the First GulF War.
And after that war had ended, his approval ratings soared. It was those soaring approval ratings that caused many top tier democratic heavyweights to forgo that election -- thus opening the way for a relative unknown.

Bush looked unbeatable immediately after the Gulf War.
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. the war was forgotten by 1991 and he looked feckless and out of touch
if that election had been about the first Gulf War or if some international crises had come up he would have had a second term.

People around here don't get it. First and foremost prez elections are about who you want in the Oval Office when a foreign policy crises happens, who do you want with their "finger on the button?" The polls always say health care etc is the #1 issue but that bullshit. McCain wins that criterion hands down. I'm not saying I agree with it or that it's rational but the GOP has a natural advantage on the number 1 issue. I expect McCain to win in November.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Don't be so pessimistic
this is the week for optimism -- despite my own natural tendencies toward pessimism.
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Alter Ego Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. Who DOES remember a pile of speeches and position papers
when a candidate's name is mentioned?

The brand of "hope and change" is the hook that you use to get people interested--then you start dictating policy to them.

"I want to change how shit is done. Here's how I'm going to do it: ..."
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I agree
I think the brand is good but it isn't yet associated with a set of concrete plans. Not that people will actually understand the details. But they will come away with the feeling that something thick and real that will ameliorate their own lives is afoot.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
14. Obama is already doing better than Clinton did prior to Clinton's 92 convention
He was running third behind Bush and Perot. Obama has a small but consistent lead and hopefully this convention will enhance it.
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Robbins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
16. Clinton
Ignore what you may think on how he governed.He was a great candiate.The 92 election was my first
one.He never led prior to the end of the convention In the polls.It Is BS that he won because of
Perot.40 percent of Perot voters would have stayed home If he wasn't running.The rest were split
equaly.In 96 Perot kept him from getting 50 percent or more of the vote.The debates helped quell
the RW talking points that he couldn't be president.The second debate when Bush was seen looking at
his watch was one of his end games.Gore was a great VP pick.It shows when you have a VP who will
actully go after Republicans It helps.

About polls.In October the polls were supposily tighting and Bush was on a comeback yet CLinton beat him by 5 points In the popular vote(although Casper Weinberger getting a new Indictment for Iran
Contra may ahve helped) and winning 5 In the popular vote lead to an electoral landslide.So If Obama wins the popular vote by that he could get over 300 Electoral Votes.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Here's hoping we repeat our feats of '92 and then some
Anyway, I think if Obama can use this big occasion to sharpen his message and to give voters a sense that this is an election about them and their needs, rather than him and his narrative and autobiography, then we win. I think the only way we lose is if the defining question remains "Who is Barack Obama? " for the next 70 days.
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