The next bodyblow to Kerry will be the NYC demonstrations.

[Raven]

I don't want to be preached to about First Amendment rights and all that comes with them...the fact is that the Bush smear and sleaze machine is just waiting for one false move in NYC by dissenters and demonstrators. I know that this is heresy here but getting Bush out of the White House is more important to me, right now, than my freedom of speech. Notice that I said "right now". Getting him out, to me, insures that I will continue to have that freedom in the future. Geting him out is worth a small momentary sacrifice. I will save the signs and my raised voice for when it will really count and that is after November 2 if this man is reelected.

If there is a problem with demonstrators in NYC, I envision that the Bush campaign already has the ad set up: it will show John Kerry at an anti-Vietnam demonstration in the 60's and 70's and then it will show the streets of New York in chaos during the RNC. The Bush campaign will hang any trouble in NYC around Kerry's neck like an albatross and that might very well tip a very delicate balance in this Campaign.

One of the first rules of politics is self-control...holding your fire...picking your fight...sticking to the main tent and avoiding the side shows. The RNC is a side show and we all should avoid it like the plague it is. There are too many other battles that must be won.

I beg people here who are thinking of going to NYC to please stay home! Use the time to register voters!

[DaveSZ]

1. Of course they are

All they have to do is throw clips of some nut jobs in an ad and call them Kerry supporters, and chimp can ride off into the hydrocarbon-hazy sunset of his own making.

[Nite Owl]

2. My feeling are that the

protestors will do just fine but there will be plants posing as demonstrators that will cause trouble. They alredy know what is going to happen because they will start it to blame us.

[KittyWampus]

3. Indeed. STAY HOME. Let Native NY'ers Have Their Say.

People that want to rally should go protest at CNN Headquaters in Atlanta.

[jonnyblitz]

6. 82 % of New Yorkers approve of protesters coming.

there was a thread here earlier today started by somebody who posted this article that stated this. the 18% who don't want us must be right wingers and DUers.

[KittyWampus]

14. Oh Please... You Think There Was A Valid Poll Of NY'ers?

:eyes:

[salinen]

11. Agree

Start with CNN headquarters and move to the Faux headquarters.

[jonnyblitz]

4. sorry. no can do.

this is my biggest pet peeve on this board. DUers telling other DUers not to attend this very important demonstration or any demonstration for that matter.

[Raven]

13. I was not telling you...I was asking and I was not

discussing any demonstration...I was talking about NYC during the RNC. This is tactical politics and if you can't see that and put your own interests second for a short time then I fear your own interests may be lost for a long time if Bush gets another term.

[alcuno]

5. If it were anywhere except NY, I'd agree with you.

People see the city as a victim of 9/11. What message does it send to the rest of the country when the victims show their disdain for *?

[JoMama49]

7. You're right, Raven!

Right this moment in San Francisco, Michael Savage, nee Weiner, is railing about the upcoming demonstrations in NYC. He refers to anybody who protests Bush as a domestic terrorist and wonders why the NYPD isn't arresting people who are planning to demonstrate! Unless the demonstrations in NYC are completely peaceful and non-destructive, they will be linked to John Kerry and the Democrats. They are all being labeled as anarchists already. I feel like the demonstrators are walking into a trap!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

27. Wrong. Disruptors are going anyway. Show up and outnumber them . . . nt

[HuskerDem]

45. I say bullshit. If we sit it out, they say "LOOKIE - there isn't nearly

as much opposition to the pResident as everyone expected!"

Fascist zombie ideologues are going to call anyone who disagrees with * anarchists and terrorists anyway.

We need to let the world see. The media suppressed the coverage of the protests at his coronation. Let's let them see us this time. God knows I would be there if I could.

[oasis]

8. Demonstrate but in a responsible way.

[movonne]

9. I hope they will have better things to do, with this spy thing...

[incapsulated]

10. Sorry...

There is no way I am going to stand still while these thugs dance on the graves of my fellow New Yorkers for political gain. The nation needs to see that those of us who actually suffered through 9/11 put the blame squarely on Bush and company, and will not stand for them exploiting us.

:grr:

[Raven]

17. I will never begin to understand what you went through on 9/11 because I d

The fact that Bush chose NYC for his coronation just adds insult to injury. But there must be another way to express that anger without running the risk of precipitating another Bush sleeze attack.

[incapsulated]

18. They are going to attack us no matter what we do

Those of us engaged in peaceful demonstration will far outnumber troublemakers. I think the potential for violence is being deliberately overstated. I don't believe the cops here want trouble either, they've been through enough shit themselves. This could have the potential of being a powerful, in the street, real people statement against Bush. That is what they are really afraid of.

[tabasco]

12. Guess what? The corporate media will slam Kerry for everything.

- He's getting slammed for being a war hero. Maybe if he hadn't been a war hero, everything would be better.
- Let the people march. It will show just how pissed people are to see the incompetent fool return to the scene of the crime - a tragedy that happened due to Bush's sheer negligence and stupidity.
- Maybe we should just stay home and be good little Democrats. That's gotten us just so far to date, with all three branches under conservative control.

[Raven]

16. And how many undecideds to you think are going to be impressed

by out-of-control demonstrations in NYC? Those are the people who are going to decide this election...not you , not me. I don't think we have to go to NYC to show people how pissed off we are!!! We need to register voters...that is that action that will speak!

[tabasco]

23. Why do you think it is going to be out of control?

I am retired and my friend is a librarian. We are going. I will be carrying an American flag. I won't be going crazy, punching people out, or breaking windows. I am expecting the vast majority of protestors to be just like me - angry, but hardly out of control.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

15. I'm all for legitimate protest,

but out-of-control foolishness does more harm than hurting Kerry's election chances. I think you're right. If those protests get out of hand (and they will, I'm sure of it-Freepers will see to that), the Right blames at all on Kerry and the Dems, and he takes a blow. I just hope we're wrong.

[WilliamPitt]

19. For those about to rock...

[Arkana]

20. Just do the shout thing

Like Al Franken said.

New Yorkers say: "Fuggedaboutit!"
Minnesotans say: "Oh no ya don't! *in a Norwegian accent*"

[Raven]

21. How about yelling...

spyinthepentagon!!!!!!! :-)

[molly]

22. I am watching CNN and MSNBC - they have BOTH

said that demonstrators will give * a boost. They were talking about protesters walking across the Brooklyn Bridge with JK tee-shirts on.

I AM BEGGING TOO !!!

Right now, we have a huge chance of winning - don't ruin it for us.

[incapsulated]

25. I don't know how to say this but...

For Chrissakes stop being such pussies! Are you really going to allow the media whores, who will spin anything we do or DON'T do against us, to determine our actions? If they said showing up to vote was bad for Kerry, I swear to god, people here would be telling us to stay home!

:eyes:

[tabasco]

38. Yes! We should just stay home!

And do what the TeeVee tells us to do ! :mad:

[HuskerDem]

46. Maybe we should ask Gillespeeee and Limpballs what we should do?

They could tell us and then the media would be happy and give us favorable coverage and everything would be just dandy.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. Show up and outflood the jerks and provocateurs.

Surround anyone advocating or perpetrating illegal acts that endanger life, limb, or property. Surround them and point to them and get them arrested. Photograph them and video them. (Doesn't matter if they wear a uniform or a bandana).

Be safe, but by showing up and protesting peacefully, the numbers become impossible to ignore. If people don't show up, then the jerks get a bigger stage.

Numbers count.

[Raven]

26. The numbers that really count are

the number of unregistered voters who get registered and vote for Kerry and the number of undecideds who decide to vote for Kerry. Those are the numbers that really matter and they will happen in our own communities, not in NYC!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. Agree Voters who vote Kerry are key. But don't give stage to disruptors

I agree that registered voters who go to the polls and vote Kerry and Democrat are the whole point. However, disruptors and idiots are going to be in New York anyway. They won't pay any attention to your thoughtful plea. Your cautions are good to pay attention to, but the jerks won't heed them.

All who can, show up and inundate the disruptors. Point them out. Be safe, but numbers count.

[sleepyhead]

29. I agree with incapsulated.

Those of us whose hearts are still in pain from the events of 9/11 will not allow the usurper and his cronies to use us and our home as a photo op. I will be in the streets with my husband and stepmother, hoping for a peaceful day, but prepared for whatever may come. THIS IS OUR HOME and we cannot and will not be background scenery for their little self-congratulatory shindig.

[incapsulated]

30. Thanks, sleepyhead

We will be the majority, and we will be heard! :grouphug:

[Eric J in MN]

31. The rightwing will exploit the protests all they can.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We can expect a big freak show at the upcoming Republican Convention in New York. The far left nut jobs will ensure Bush's re-election, even though they will think they're doing the opposite. In fact, i hope they go on a total Bush-hatin' rampage in the streets of New York. Everyone knows who's side they're on, and the worse the protesters act, the more people will realize how low the Democratic Party has fallen."
-The rightwing blog, Annika's Journal, July 26, 2004
------------------------------------------------------------------

My comments on this at moveleft.com

http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2004_08_14_republicans_will_try_to_exploit_protests.asp

[lolly]

32. Media Spin Not Under Our Control

The media desperately WANTS some sort of violence--it will give them HOURS of blather time. They'll get to look all serious and pontificate and lecture the protestors.

On the other hand, if people heed the warnings and stay home, the BIG STORY will be the lack of protestors. "We've been hearing all week about all the planned protests, Jim, but so far it doesn't look like anything is materializing. Democratic organizers obviously overestimated the depth of the anti-Bush sentiment in the country . . ."

Go, be peaceful, carry flags, sing patriotic songs, document disruptors, take pictures. It isn't whether protesters go or don't go; it's whether we can keep the media from distorting whatever happens.

[mzmolly]

33. I totally agree. People are talking about mooning crowds etc. Sorry,

but I fail to see the value in this? It makes us look like idiots.

When Martin Luther King marched for civil rights, he did so with DIGNITY. We should have dignity ourselves and not give ANY excuse for the R's to use this against us. ANY ...

[Mz Pip]

34. Chicago '68

helped Nixon more than it did Humphrey. I was there and we were a bunch of naive idealists.

The most powerful protest, IMHO, would be if there were no marches, no speeches, just total silence with everyone staying home or if they have to go out, dressed in black. GIVE THEM NOTHING!

But then I don't write this stuff.


MzPip
:dem:

[Erika]

35. Dressed in Black Is great!

Maybe paint the number of Iraqi war fatalities and injured in white.

We need to be out there. But effective about it. We can't stay quiet and hidden like we did when Bush sent our kids into Iraq for fear we'd be called unpatriotic and suffer retribution.

[Zen Democrat]

40. In '68 the demonstrations were at the Dem Convention.

And people decided the country needed a change. Humphrey was "publicly" going along with the war and Johnson. Nixon profited.

It's different this year, folks. The demonstrations against Bush could convince voters that "IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE!!"

The vote against the '68 demonstrations was a vote against the "gestapo tactics of the Chicago police" against the kids. IMHO.

[union_maid]

36. Here's the thing...

There would be demonstrations no matter where the RNC was held. The hatred that Bush inspires is like no other president we've had in a long, long time. So, there would be demonstrations no matter what. Having the convention in NYC is just such a slap in the face that of course it's going to be bigger than it might otherwise. They're going to use footage of any crazies or outrageousness they can find no matter what. You can find some of that in NYC at any time if you know where to look. NYC cops are pretty professional and are not easily thrown by whatever comes their way. I don't think they're going to freak like the cops did in Chicago '68. Bloomberg is ready and he might be a Repug, but he knows his city and has a certain amount of pride in NY being NY. So better to have a show of stregnth and demonstrate the sheer numbers of people in opposition to Bush than to have someone tape a pathetic band of would be demonstrators like some of the Freepish demonstrations that we've seen photos of right here.

I wanted to go myself, but it's not to be. My mother will either still be in the hospital or just coming home and will need care, so I'll be watching from 50 miles away. I'm not entirely confident that it will be a plus for our side but I'm sure that it's inevitable and that our side will be making quite a statement.

[RhodaGrits]

37. I am sick and tired of being told to stay home. I am NY born and

bred and there is no f'g way I'm not going to exercise my right to peaceably assemble and protest this administration and the RNC. I am almost 50 yrs old, I've not been to a protest since the early '70s. I am a female small business owner, serve on the Boards of 3 organizations, I'm a professional and a responsible member of my community. I will be taking photos and if need be I will cooperate as a witness against those inciting violence - on either side. They want us to stay home. I will not be told to stay home and shut up. They will present whatever story they want in the media - they present a continuous stream of lies daily. I intend to be there and witness. The more responsible citizens standing up against these bullies the better. If they don't find left wing loonies making trouble, they will simply film their own and present it as such. They will have trouble painting hundreds of thousands of average adult citizens out to be domestic terrorists. (That remark was enough to get me raving again - I am an American, a resident of New York and I have a right to walk the streets in protest.)

[Zen Democrat]

39. Not me. I hope there's at least 100,000 peaceful demonstrators

in the streets on New York Sunday. I want the world to see that Americans and New Yorkers are ashamed of this joke of a president and the calamities he has wrought.

The demonstrations before the war started were peaceful and powerful. I want as many people -- men, women and children -- mainstream Americans, to be out en masse.

I want the people in Iowa and Missouri and Wisconsin, et al, to see that Americans are collectively disturbed by this administration. That's it is not "all right" to just go along with the guy that's already in there. They need to see that this lunatic is tearing the country apart. I just pray that the crowd stays focused, even though we know there will be agents provocateur out there to agitate.

[graywarrior]

41. It's Kerry's job to win. It's ours to speak out.

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

[Sugarbleus]

42. I worry about "wild eyed" disrupters too BUT... I am all for

allowing the "people" to voice their distaste for Bush and his presidency.

I dislike the ones that break things and act like nuts; the one's who disrupt just for the sake of disrupting.

I wish protesting/protestors would represent a cross section of the nation and the issues of it's people. I'd rather see a mass of Senior Citizen groups, and disabled americans, and teachers,and healthcare workers, and union workers, and middle income americans, and low wage workers,and conservationists, and veterans, and people of color,and women's groups, and economists, and homeless advocates, and etc etc. out there against this administration and it's insipid convention; hopefully there will be representation of these groups and less of the shouters for shouting's sake.. It's not a party afterall, it's a democracy, along with some basic human rights, we're trying to save.

People who are directly affected by current republican policies would be much more effective than wild, one issue, yelling demonstrators. Yet, I defend their right to speak and wish I could be there. My opinion.

[shoopnyc123]

43. Here's what I'm doing...

http://www.thegreatamericanshoutout.com/modules/event/index.php

[lgardengate]

44. Totally disagree!

I want millions to show up and show the GOP our rage.No one can link Kerry to it.That would backfire.I say embrace the rage!

[DinahMoeHum]

47. New York 2004 is NOT Chicago 1968. Things are different all around.

In 1968 we had a viable middle class (aka "The Silent Majority"). Most of the demonstrators were students, and they looked upon the police as part of the whole problem in America with regard to civil rights and the Vietnam War, calling them pigs.

Today, the middle class is shrinking, the economy is in the toilet, we have lost respect around the world due to the incompetence and arrogance of a "selected President" and the "Silent Majority" is no longer silent. We have the spectre of another Vietnam in the works out there in Iraq. And it's not just students or young punks who will be at the demonstrations. There will be families, business people, war veterans, union men and women. IOW, people who years ago would have pelted eggs at student demonstrators. And nearly 80% of New Yorkers support what we are doing.

And speaking of unions, the police and firefighters (our heroes and martyrs of 9/11) are none too happy at Mayor Bloomberg these days, working without a revised contract. Hell, Bloomberg is too cheapskate to even give them overtime for the RNC convention. Don't be surprised if many of them get the "blue flu" and call in sick, or actually join the demonstrations themselves.

We as New Yorkers should not give a shit about hurting other people's feelings or affecting politcal polls.

Bottom line - B*sh and the GOP are dancing on the graves of over 3000 people who perished on 9/11, and we will not tolerate this. They are not welcome in our city and we will let them know it, one way or another.

Fuck Off, Elephant. The Donkey rules in NYC.

:kick::kick::kick:

[blondeatlast]

50. First Responder contracts are headed for binding arbitration

so the FRs are really pissed. The article is archived, but if you have ProQuest access through a library, this is the document ID: 680289491

Delegates MUST cross a picket line of first responders.

(snip)
Such a move would put Republican delegates in an uncomfortable position because crossing the line might be seen as showing disrespect for the nation's police officers -- a group that President Bush's campaign is wooing assiduously. And New York's police officers, like its firefighters, are held in special regard because of their role in confronting the Sept. 11 attack.

The threat comes despite pledges by the New York City Central Labor Council that the city's unions would not disrupt the convention. But Mr. Lynch said his union was not bound by that pledge because the P.B.A. does not belong to the labor council.

Hoping to persuade Mr. Bloomberg to make a more generous contract offer, police officers and firefighters have for over a week dogged him wherever he goes, picketing and heckling him. In addition, the leaders of the police and fire unions have warned that they will not rule out a strike, perhaps even during the Republican convention, even though state law prohibits walkouts by government employees.

''The mayor has created these tensions with his unreasonable and unacceptable contract offer,'' said Stephen Cassidy, the president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. We're DOOMED if we exercise our First Amendment rights!

:eyes:

[janx]

49. Do you by any chance remember the massive protest at

Chimpy's inaugural?

It was very impressive.

[Christof]

51. Sorry. I disagree.

I think people SHOULD go and exercise their First Amendment right to free speech, as long as it's peaceful.

F*ck Bush and his smear campaign.

[blondeatlast]

52. Civil? Yes. Peaceful? No. But I agree with you. nt

[Monte Carlo]

53. Isn't this hand-wringing a bit unnecessary?

What's going to happen at the RNC is going to happen, and I'm sure that Karl Rove sees a riot or whatever at the convention to be a plus for his ends. TV news and politicians always over-emphasize the damage.

But I don't see any way that Kerry can escape his anti-Vietnam War past. It's what gave him a name on the national stage, and no matter what happens at the RNC, Rove is going to find some way to tie it to Kerry. I don't think it's going to amount to much at all.

[Joe Turner]

54. Agree, this could be explotioted by the Bush Goons

I'll bet dollars to donuts that SmirkCo will place operatives into NYC protests for the purpose of agitating the crowd and whipping up hysteria. This of course which will be captured by the media. Then they will turn around and try to paint the protestors as typical Kerry Supporters....blah blah blah.

It's a real danger as this criminal administration will do anything to win reelecton. ANYTHING.

[Catt03]

55. I ask myself...when was a President so disliked in my generation?

Well, Johnson was...but by '68 word was out that they lied about the numbers, the deaths, the battles, the atrocities...etc.

But the hatred (strong word, I know) against Bush is all encompassing. I think that if people did not have an outlet by protesting there would be more violence.

There will most likely be civil disobedience in New York and maybe it is about time.

[maine_raptor]

57. What about Nixon?

LBJ was well liked at first, but by 67-68 he was toast.

Nixon on the other hand was detested from the start. Watergate only confirmed for a lot of fence sitters what the left had been saying for years (even before he was elected).

But I agree that the hatred directed toward Bush is "all encompassing", but it is largely a result of his own doing (something that is quite different from Nixon).

[AngryAmish]

56. We need to get out there

Get off your knees and do somethng. Just don't do it in Chicago.

[Onlooker]

58. You are so wrong

As someone who is driving down to tomorrow's demonstration, I feel kind of strongly on this issue.

The Republicans are going to get a bounce from the convention almost no matter what. The point of the demonstrations is to steal some of their thunder, to make it more difficult for them to get their message out, and to show America that there is widespread opposition to Bush.

Without demonstrations, the Republican convention would be nothing but a week of good news for the Republicans. With demonstrations, despite their downside, the speeches by the Republicans will have to compete for news time with anti-Bush rallies.

As far as your point about the RNC trying to exploit any trouble in the demonstrations, of course they will, but cowering is not the way to combat them. They will go after Kerry for his anti-war protests no matter what; they will stoop as low as they can to win no matter what; you don't beat the Republicans by playing nice especially during their week of unfettered lies.