When Will Dems Learn To Street Fight?

[demwing]

My dad taught me that there's no such thing as a fair fight, there's just the guys who walks away, the guy who runs away, and the guy who gets carried away.

I'm tired of holding the high road and losing elections. I am sick to death of hearing about the bullshit that Republican fucks pull to get and keep their power, and about how we become like them if we fight like them.

Bull. Shit.

The only thing that will happen if we fight like Republicans--the only way we'll become like them--is that we'll begin to win more elections.

It's not just that we have better policies and ideas for the future of America, it's that their policies are dangerous and detrimental to the future of America.

Someone willsaythat you shouldn't mud wrestle with pigs, as you both get dirty and the pig likes it. Maybe. But sometimes you catch the pig. and sometimes the pig loses.

Trust me, the pig only likes to wrestle win it wins. There were never any pigs that liked to end up as the bacon on my plate.

Never. Not even one.

[HootieMcBoob]

1. Sometimes you eat the whole freakin' pig face and all!

And it taste GOOD!!!!!

I could not agree with you more.

[mzmolly]

2. I heard a Republican talking head say "Democrats laugh about our so

called lack of intelligence, and Republicans laugh about Democrats political naivete.

The wording was different, but the point is ... who's actually stupid? Democrats, or Republicans?

[HootieMcBoob]

3. agree

the person who looses is stupid. especially when what we're dealing with is so important. winning should be top priority.

[LiberalVoice]

4. To be honest...

I could give a rats ass whether this country exists in 20 years or not. What worries me is the direction we're taking and the impact it will have on the entire planet.

Like John Lennon says, "Imagine there's no countries."

[demwing]

45. I give a rats ass

I have kids.

Also, I'm glad the founding fathers gave a rats ass, otherwise no one would be here to listen to you being busy not giving a rats ass.

[wurzel]

5. Liberals use reason. Big Mistake!

Dems still believe, in spite of who is in the White House today, that the system actually works. They still think this is a "democracy". They should take a lesson from Stalin. When told the Pope would object to some policy, Stalin said. "How many divisions does the Pope have?"

[Jon8503]

6. Dean Was Not Afraid Of A Street Fight Or Any Fight

I don't understand what is going on with this campaign but they are going to keep falling back if they don't get any guts and fight back.

This was in an article by a Newsweek Columnist:

"My Republican mole on Capitol Hill says the green light has gone out to Republicans to do whatever it takes to get Bush elected. “This is the way we hold onto power,” he says with disgust."

This is why I have been saying the Kerry campaign had better stop worrying about how they are perceived or going overboard or offending someone. Karl Rove has not had the success he is having with that attitude. He does what it takes to win. If you are planning on winning the election, you better not be meek. Kerry should have gone on the attack the minute the Swift Boat Jerks started up. He didn't. He should never had let Bush trick him into saying he would vote for the war again even knowing now what he knows. You can't fall into your opponents traps and you always stay on the offensive.

Now the dems are afraid how the demonstrates in NY will be perceived and they might get blamed.

[MrBenchley]

14. Who ARE you trying to kid?

All I've heard from Deanies for the past few months is how unfair it was their guy got knifed in the back...and now we're supposed to admire him for getting into the knife fight in the first place?

He was a pretty good candidate that had some virtues, and some faults. He energized the leftward fringe. But he failed to make a good enough case in the primaries. I think he'll be a big help in the campaign and will make an excellent Secretary of Health and Human Services or elsewhere.

"Karl Rove has not had the success he is having"
Rove's name is cursed anywhere it is known, his nickname is turd blossom, and his candidate is the Worst. President. Ever. who can't appear in public before his fellow citizens unless they've been screened and made to sign loyalty oaths...If that's success, then what comes out a dog's ass is a Baby Ruth.

And Hitler was one of the most successful politicans ever by that measure...right up until that morning in April when they put the pistol on his desk in the bunker.

[Jon8503]

17. Not Trying To Kid Anyone because it is the truth,

just sit back the way this campaign has been and the results you will soon see, not arguing about their personalities, agree on the worst president but that doesn't do anybody any good if he goes into office again, no matter how he gets there. Don't know about who is cursing Rove except for the ones he buries, you can't argue with his track record. Hopefully, this battle will not be as successful as the last.

[MrBenchley]

19. "no matter how he gets there"

Geeze, why not support him if things like that don't matter?

"you can't argue with his track record"
Who wants to have that track record at the end of the day?

[xrepub]

25. He was a successful politician

To be a successful politician there is one requirement: you must win. In this race, we have all the facts on our side. The other side plays dirty. That does not mean we must play dirty also, but we must play tough. We have not been playing tough, hell, if we had Rove on our side we would be up 20 points.

[MrBenchley]

36. "if we had Rove on our side"

We'd be cheating...

There's a reason Rove is on the side he's on...just as in Birmingham in 1963 you could be on Martin Luther King's side or you could be on Bull Conner's side....

[tedoll78]

7. For this year, I'm all about fighting dirty.

Wanna move a few thousand Dem voters' addresses from Kentucky/Indiana to Ohio so that they can vote absentee and then move back home immediately thereafter? Let's do it.

Wanna have the Dem governor of a swing state motorcade through key GOP areas, tying-up traffic and slowing-down the path to the polling places? Let me turn-on the flashing blue lights.

Wanna pray and meditate for a Category 1 hurricane to hit the Florida panhandle on Election Day? I'll get the hymnals and floor mats.

There's too much at stake here. I'll get muddy for my country.

[John Q. Citizen]

8. Quit complaining and do something about it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=683189&mesg_id=683189

Post to local discussion boards in swing states and rip the wingnuts a new one.

Whining on DU gets you nothing.

[DemMother]

21. Kerry is looking for "travlers" to other states for the next few weeks

If you're not in a swing state, you can go to one and do some good.

[Southern Patriot]

23. Contact info? nm

nm

[John Q. Citizen]

35. Hi S P

This is all I have now for NM. It's a newspaper board in El Paso close to SW New Mexico, and get folk from NM.

http://cgi.elpasotimes.com/cgi-bin/teemz/tzsearch.cgi?board=_master&action=activetopics&history=24

I'm always looking for more local boards so if you get any please pass them on.

[demwing]

22. Excuse me

but your noise is no different than my noise.

Except for the fact that I'm sharing a general feeling of anger with people whom I believe might understand me, and you...you are just trying to bust my balls.

When not in DU I'm in chat rooms fighting Rightwing crap, I'm slowly (much too slowly for my tastes - I need help!) developing my Democraticwing website, I'm writing media sources and I'm encouraging damn near everyone I meet to learn about the reasons that this election is so damn important.

Thanks for your input.

[John Q. Citizen]

34. Hi demwing

Sorry if i came off harsh, I just think we need to be the street fighters and Kerry/Edwards need to be Presidential, at least for now.

Wining is more important to me than fighting.

I think Kerry made the right move calling Bush out on the sbvt issue. I also think too many early attacks from them could be counter productive.

Kerry today in Tacoma said "I'm in a fighting mood" and I think as we get closer to the election we will see that's true.

I apologise again for assuming you were putting it off on others and not doing the fighting yourself.

I agree that Demos as a whole have let the Repos run over them for too long, in niceness, media manipulation, and tactics. Thank you Howard Dean!

Have a good one and please post to local swing state boards or hit the streets and canvass if you are able to in the swing states. Good luck on your projects.

[dave123williams]

9. I believe you'll see some street

fighting this week, in all likelyhood. Baptism by fire.

[Union Thug]

10. I agree.

Politics IS a street fight and if you don't treat every one as a matter of survival, you end up dead.

Look what's happened to the labor movement. It's basically a zombie, barely animated after stunning successes in the early/mid 20th cent. It's not because my father and grandparents 'took the high road' and allowed scabs to take their jobs while peaceful negotiations occurred..It's because they were willing to bust heads and risk going to prison.

My dad has a million stories of strikes won out of sheer bone breaking, street wars. I think it's time to return to those days.

[kodi]

38. and so do i

my pop was a UAW organizer and my great uncle a trotskyite labor offical in the 30's. the stories they told me of the violence of strike-breakers that came from management was what i was weaned on.

the demise of the democratic party as a majority party has been because of its betrayal of the labor movement, and labor was the only counter-balance to management and corporate control of the government.

now we have too many pattie-cake dems leading the party who have never had to worry about getting their heads caved in because of a economic/political stance. these folks have not come out of the rough and tumble atmosphere of the organized labor movement and have little to no allegience to labor.

[mellowinman]

11. I beat the shit out of six Republicans

just for the fun of it. One was a mechanic. He looked under the hood of my car and SLAM! I brought it down on his head. He's eatin' through a straw, and all because he had Rush on the radio in the garage. NOT the Canadian power trio.

One was a school crossing guard. He was teaching propoganda to the children, so I threw a Coke bottle at him, and knocked him to the pavement. He's missing three teeth.

Two were nuns. Man I get sick of them. Not just nuns, but full, all out Republican button sporting penguins with thick legs. Man, I just ran and tackled the sisters, and last I heard they are in intensive care.

The last two were puppies. Damned puppies! Always supporting Bush, and believing the damn Swift Boat Vets. They were Swift Boat Puppies for sure, and I kicked 'em and kicked 'em, until their heads were swelled up to the size of a Cantonese Waiter.

So I did my part, and now I'm in jail.

But it was all worth it, because I'm a street fightin' Democrat, with balls the size of marshmallows.

[rumguy]

13. I took out a freeper in a wheelchair the other day

I wheeled him off a dock into a lake.

[Chili]

27. not taking sides...

...but that was damn funny.

ROTFL!

[snyder]

30. What? What?

I didn't see a thing, office. Nope, didn't hear anything either. Nope.

[demwing]

24. Very funny

it is to laugh.

Thanks for helping me illustrate a point. Some people seem to think that fighting back means indescriminately fighting the world, or that it equates to being stupid and mean.

Well, it doesn't.

Wake up. You have ethics, your opponents do not. In a great sense, that gives you an edge. You have an advanmtage as a ethical and humane being, and you have the strength of your convictions. You are the better person, and I tip my hat to you. But I wouldn't want you running Kerry's campaign.

The world needs people like you - tomorrow.

Today, the world needs people who will wrestle the pigs and will serve up a steaming slab of bacon with an icy smile, people who can stare the devil in the face because they have faced the devil in their souls, peolpe who are not above getting a little (or a lot of) dirt on their hands because they know that dirt eventually washes off.

Don't laugh just because you disagree. The high road may not always be the best road.

[undergroundpanther]

12. To beat a bully

Top him,beat him down give him his own medicine right back.
Republicans have conduct disorders,this is why they are republicans.(Why fundies are fundies)They as a population have a stunted empathy,an insatiable greed,a liar heart,a very toxic,amoral,narcissistic mental illness that is destructive to relationships.

To me a conduct disorder a bully problem,an authoritarian, is the only real mental illness that poses a consistent real danger to society's functioning.The abusers and perpetrators among us are the problem.They are the reason peace,equality,diversity and justice,never happens in government or marketplace.Bullies can't or refuse to tolerate being in a relationship based in cooperation,mutual respect,democracy,sharing,equality,human rights(for others) or peace.

If you fight back against soulless thugs wearing masks of sanity this does not by default mean you have a conduct disorder even tho the bully will cry victim,point fingers and refuse to take responsibility for his own actions.
What is in your heart what kind of culture do you want to live in?

Do you beat up opponents to sadistically dominate them or silence them because you can
Or do you do it because the republican has made himself a menace to peace to humanity,to community,to society and disrupts peace and ruins life for others?

Republicans have no conduct boundaries internally on their own behavior.If they can get away with it,they will.To them they make the right and wrong according to what they want and what they can get away with.

They need external boundaries.Social barriers,and people willing to fight them,shame them,disrupt their schemes, expose them,and take away what they have stolen,etc.People who are not bullies need to assert sane fair and equitable boundaries on all seekers of power. This does not mean passivity or no violence as an absolute.

The bullies are in control of our country.They are very manipulative and secretive,controlling vicious and insidious.They have tons of P.R. covering up their personality flaws and bad deeds..Those of us who do not want to be abused need to knock them down to earth before they get enough people cowed,and morally bankrupted,traumatized and confused enough destroy society and steal and enslave this world under our noses.

Those of us with heart and desire to change relationships to a more sane culture need to get beyond our moral absolutist Utopian dreams . They sound nice on paper. It's a disappointment to realize some people will not choose get along,without a fight,will not play fair until they are taken out of the game,,will not do the right thing because they don't want to.. So America needs to learn how to put real boundaries with real teeth on the bullies.Be it the republican game of disordered conduct or an abuser in the home. Imposing ethical empathy based values on bullies is necessary ,a human centered value of conduct of right and wrong asserted upon bullies by others is necessary because the bully lacks in their own heart the empathy so they don't have an adequate emotional connection with humanity,They can't or refuse to feel other's pain as they abuse them. Bullies can fake empathy however(compassionate conservatism).They will not to be able to understand why it is wrong to dominate,steal from,abuse and exploit people when they are allowed to get away with it.So Don't LET them get away.If you let them get away they will never stop it.
Drop the moral utopias,Bullies need boundaries imposed upon them from the outside. A Society who does not want to suffer abuses or tolerate abuses,lies and intimidation needs to top the bullies in their life,in the home,at work,in the government as soon as the bully acts out of line..

We need to decide what kind of a culture we want.

Do we want a culture of cooperation,relationship, empathy,taking care of each other,quality of life,diversity,equality,a respect of all human rights to all,(sane human values )?

or of mono culture,cutthroat competition,arbitrary human rights, domination and winning,masters and servants,quantity of life,(bully culture).

What do you do with people who because they are sick,in the heart in the moral center, refuse to share,to do their part in a relationship, those who abuse you and betray you,lie and steal?
If you cannot leave the authoritarian fool ,you got to fight them and resist them and disobey and ignore all their threats bargaining,lies and distractions and fight back until they are beaten down enough to decide it is more in their selfish interests to be respectful of others than to abuse them.

After the bully has this realization you must watch them and never trust them again because they are emotionally like rabid dogs but mentally they are liars like Machiavelli their sanity is fake a mask..People need to learn to detect this kind of disordered conduct reject and mistrust bullies ,disobey and assert themselves against authoritarians, abusers,liars, sociopaths narcissists and bullies wherever they appear and assert healthy community values and demand respect for themselves and other members of said community and raise the standards of the group milieu or society itself...


Individuals in a society are EACH co-responsible for instilling the cooperation based,humanitarian,anti authoritarian,equality based,diversity respecting, values for a culture..Individuals(as in YOU and I) need to understand what manipulation is,what abuse is,and guard our freedom to be who we are and to live as we desire and be free of domination and corruption. Society has to make sure bullies are never are able to cross social boundaries and social contracts on conduct in our relationships that make it possible for vastly different people to peacefully co-exist.Bullies chafe against all boundaries on their conduct and would rather get away with abuse ,theft,and exploiting without accountability.Society once it understands what sane anti bully values are they got to make sure bullies never get anywhere near the power they seek....

If changing culture requires us to fight bullies in the street and fight bullies in our own hearts..than fight we must
Freedom requires a person to be eternally vigilant for tyrants and abusers of trust,freedom and privacy.Democracy is incompatible with authoritarianism,lies,abuse and domination.

People can change society itself by personally limiting what bullies they interact with can do/take/have,limit their freedom,and not taking their claims of'authority' seriously. A bully deserves contempt because they demonstrated when they have freedom they'll abuse your freedom abuse you and take anything else they can get away with.
Stop letting them get away.

The only reason Abu Gharib is a problem is because it was "leaked" someone told the truth outside of the "family" (the military culture)despite the code of silence,secrecy and threat..Abusers everywhere HATE to have their abuses exposed to others outside their realm of control..It makes it much harder for them to be trusted enough to acquire power and abuse some more.

[CityDem]

15. Well said

It is finally time to take the gloves off. We have been playing by the rules for too long.

[MAlibdem]

16. Can't we just stand next to the mud pit and shoot the pig with a shotgun?

I find that most appealing.

[snyder]

18. What Just Kills Me ...

... is that the Democrats used to be the premier street fighters. All I can say is what the hell ever happened? When did the Democratic Party make the collective decision that you run for president of the U.S. in the same way you run for president of the Student Council?

[molly]

20. Evolution

[John_H]

28. That's what the mamoths said.

[goclark]

26. Let's get nasty!

This is exactly the stuff I talked about this morning.
As far as I'm concerned it's no more Mr. Nice guy, let's get nasty with it!

Democrats need to keep telling the American people THE REAL TRUTH.Most people do not really believe that they will steal the election again,we at DU know that they WILL do it...

Kerry needs to lay out the real plan, the " VOTE ALERT"
Plan. None of his dreams and ours will become reality if they STEAL this election.

He needs to say LOUD and CLEAR the same MEME's!

( This is my suggestion, I would love to hear others so that we can get them to the Kerry Campaign)

Start out with the Kerry people telling the American people at rallies and everywhere...

"Smear,smear,smear
Fear,fear,fear is all you'll hear!
They are talking about YESTERDAY and we are talking about TOMORROW"

I have said this time and time again but I believe it now more than ever. We can keep putting our heads in the sand and play nice guys and believe that the polls lie(I really believe they do) and that we should "take the high road" because that is the PC thing to do"
NOT!!
NOT!! NOT!!:mad:

This is a WAR of the Ballot Box and we can not win by simply getting bumper stickers,registering voters,sending out people to slap down the Swift Lies --that may be working for some but many in America are not really listening to all the intellectual debate folks.

Let's tell the American people the truth! The Kerry Campaign needs to say LOUD and CLEAR... yea, let's get nasty and tell the truth to the American people!!!!!!

"Folks,they are working right now to STEAL this election!"

Kerry needs to do it just like the Homeland Security Alert and keep them guessing on what we know and when the "VOTE ALERT" team is coming to their town.

We need to send huge teams of lawyers into every state and make it BIG BIG NEWS every day.

Example: "Today the "VOTE ALERT" team will be in...CLEVELAND and we are sending Janet Reno(Clinton,Carter ,Gore,Cleland and other super democratic stars) and a team of lawyers to the steps of your government 's office to demand to see what is going on with the voting machines in your town. Meet us on the front steps at 10 am on Sept.7th! etc. etc,etc)

We need to keep them guessing as to what city will be next, just like they do us with the Security alert fear stuff.

When the going gets tough,the tough get going!!

Let's fight fire with fire!!! :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Redleg]

29. Democrats are for fair play. We don't believe in cheating to win.

If we are willing to take every means to win, have we really won?

[demwing]

31. Reverse your question...

"If we are only willing to play fairly, have we really lost?"

My answer - Yes, if we don't do everything to stop them, and as a result the 2004 Republicans end up holding both Houses, the new Supreme Court, and the Whitehouse? Yes, we've lost.

We will have lost everything.

Is anything worth that?

[goclark]

32. If on Nov.3rd Kerry wins

then we will see an administration with hearts and minds that work for the good of everyone.

If we stay intellectual and keep batting Smear flies down, we will have George Bush in the WH and four more years of NeoCons.

I will take the road that leads to a Kerry victory.

Remember, that WE will be telling the truth when we FIGHT to win.

They will be stealing votes and telling lies to win.
I would never say that we should stoop that low to win. I will stand up to them and call them on their LIES.

Today I met a Republican Bully who said if Kerry wins we will have Osama running the WH. I told him, "IMO a terrorist already runs the WH and his name is GW. BUSH!" He shut up on that one!

I certainly would never tell LIES to win anything. George Bush and his sopranos have done so many criminal acts we could just tell the truth all day. That's all we need to do...

Tell the truth, they don't - we do.

[LisaL]

33. Nice men

finish last.
I don't think we even have to cheat.
But I think we definetly need some negative Bush adds.
And thankfully, we wouldn't have to lie.

[MrBenchley]

37. Exactly so....

If you want to line up with somebody who fights like Karl Rove, there's the original Karl Rove actually in the campaign already.....

[demwing]

39. oh please - lol

Have you never had to ally yourself with a bastard to get a job done? If you say not, then I think you're either naive or disingenuous.

Of course, under normal circumstances you would never want a person stabbing you in the neck with a pen, right?

But in an emergency, under the right circumstances, such an action would be called an emergency tracheotomy, and it would save your life.

We need that political version of the emergency tracheotomy, we need someone who will go for the throat. If that makes you squeemish, I understand. Put on the blinders until November, keep registering people to vote, and show up on election day.

Don't worry, somebody else will do the dirty stuff for you. It has always been so, and it will always remain as such.

[demwing]

40. Let's Understand "Cheating"

You can't cheat at a game where there are no rules.

For instance, a tie between Bush and the Swiftboat Vets organization IS cheating. There are established rules regarding such activities.

On the otherhand, smearing a candidate is not cheating. It's crappy and it's rotten, but it's not cheating.

There is NO LAW that one has to play nice, or use tactics that are honorable and highminded. Of course, playing with fire might get ya burned, but you take that chance when you have to.

This year is a must win. This year is clearly one where bending will save us from breaking.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

43. Bingo!

"By Hook or by Crook" we WILL WIN!!!

:kick:

[bringbackfdr]

41. Repukes understand: Perception is reality

They have turned the myth of the "liberal media" into accepted fact, to the point that once objective outlets like CNN now bend over backwards to seem "fair", to the point that they truly are biased - toward the conservatives.
That's how the right wing has established its power - it is far better at playing the media.

[demwing]

44. And again, it isn't cheating

if it doesn't break any rules.

It's just manipulative and debased - and highly f*cking effective!

The media "corruption" is a huge tool for the neocons. We must take back OUR media, and that won't be something that can be achieved through a few town hall meetings.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

42. I like the way you think! I have been saying this for a long time now.

We have learn that we are fighting for the survival of ourselves as well as our Country!

By Hook or ANY OTHER MEANS we MUST WIN come November!!!

I don't play nice, I don't care to be nice, and will NOT be nice!!!

:grr:

I will crack as MANY balls it takes to win!!!

:kick:

[Jacobin]

46. Maybe 2007? Howard Dean knows how to fight

Too bad he got done in in Iowa by Gephardt's crew.

[vetwife]

48. Oh Goodness. ya'll have been reading my strategy thread. See

how I couldn't be a politican on that thread and would dish out all kinds of dirt. LOL Nice guys finish last...Go read my strategy and see how I would win it or lose it but it would be MY WAY and I am not that way but wouldhave to become that way to get into the white house. Because there is no such thing as fiar play anymore or the high road. Exactly why I couldn't be a politician !

[Christof]

47. Amen!

I wanna see some blood! (not really, but you know what I mean)

[seabeyond]

49. my father taught me integrity, honesty, honor

it has served me well over the years. i dont know if i could have a better life.

a man i love and respect

and here the last month, listen to him embrace the republican in their scum and lie. i just dont look at this man the same. you may not have a concept of this, but for me this is a huge, and sad

i dont want to be that. and i wont. i wont sell out who i am to win. just as i wish my father didnt sell out to win. i would rather my father become aware as opposed to me becoming scum. not even rpesidency is worth me selling out

i have children to raise, i have a greater responsibility in example. i want more for them

[ReadTomPaine]

51. What will you tell your children if your path leads to failure?

That the road to slavery was paved with the best of intentions? That countering oppression with your most powerful political weapons was less important than feeling good about yourself the day after? Who are you really making that decision for, yourself or for them? Fight to win or learn to lose.

RTP.

[seabeyond]

52. unfortunately this is exactly how the right sold out their christianity

their religion and their self. what are we gonna do when armageddon is here, then what good is integrity, fuck that shit, lets fuck everyone now and then figure it out later. the right come up with all kinds of validation and justification and story telling to allow them to be this scum

dont ya get it

you can battle in integrity. and that is what my children will learn and walk in life and maybe they will be the ones helping others back to it, cause others thought it was more important to sell out too, and the whole f*in world is in battle and mess

[seabeyond]

53. btw....What will you tell your children

what will i tell my children if i sell out adn still fail, or even win

[demwing]

54. You'll Tell them this

"I fought with every bit of energy in my soul to give you a better world, even if it meant that I suffered as a result. That's what it means to be an American, and that's what it means to be a parent. I love you so much, I'll sacrifice everything I have for you."

What on earth is wrong with that?

I'm not trying to say right is wrong, or that wrong is right.

I'm trying to say that one part of sacrificing for the future of the country and your family might include sacrificing your own image, as viewed by yourself as well as others.

Individually, we are not the last hope of values and ethics. To think of ourselves as such is egoism.

As a group, we may have to act in a way that is contrary to our individual values and ethics in order to survive, so that we can plant those values and ethics in the hearts of a new generation.

This is serious shit. We have to be willing to put everything on the line. Rest assured that your opponents will not think better of you, or show you mercy if you fight nicely. You are fodder. To them, you do NOT matter, not now, not ever.

Remember Bush when he mocked Carla Faye Tucker? She found Jesus while on death row, and asked for mercy. The asshole Bush could not even pretend to understand mercy. He was greedy for her death. He enjoyed it. He laughed at her death. He sneered at the mention of mercy.

He sneered...

[seabeyond]

56. remember carla faye tucker

yes i do.

i also remember a reporter asking you and father talk about,......he says pussy

i also remember he stole an election in florida and had cousin call it.

he wants to change constitution to include discrimination

he does not seperate church and state and his church is scary

he has lied about every number or report, lied about war, lied about policy

he has failed at everything he has attempted

all these are truth and there is more than enough to go after him for. all these are clearly things we could use in campaign. now to suggest getting in street fight, depends what you are talking, talking calling truce and when he walks away hit him upside the head with a bat? that is what they do. is this what is being suggested.

or are you suggesting taking all the truth, the zillions of failures of bush and going at it....hard.

i am saying, what the repugs have become i am not willing. i am not willing to say he had four abortions when they were illegal and one 15 year old girl. was smuggling drugs from florida to mexico. has murdered at least 10 people thru guns or small planes or car moving forward without anyone in them. he orcrestrated and committed the acts of 9/11

and go on a smear job

[nagbacalan]

50. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Intent on maintaining the "high moral road," my local Democratic club has disavowed willing and informed sign offs on letters-to-the editor. Meanwhile, the opposition continues to savage us on momentutm from the o so visceral swift boat ad.

[David Zephyr]

55. Only When They Free Themselves From Corporate Sponsorship.

Not before.

[Darby]

57. I'm trying to, but it's hard to stand up against the machine

when you are just one person. One person (namely me) has to be ready to take the full brunt of the machine, like the Borg attacking Picard.