Kerry Paying Heavy Price for Edwards and Band of Mild-Mannered Advisers

[Raya]

John Kerry has been surrounded by a suffocating web of mild-mannered consultants that have steered him into some poor strategic decisions.

The first was the choice of Edwards for V.P. Anyone who had access to the behind the scenes action will tell you that there was an enormous campaign, supported by consultants, to get Kerry to pick Edwards based on his great popularity among democrats and the focus-group results regarding the need for more “excitement” and “charisma” in the Kerry campaign.

Efforts to push candidates initially preferred by Kerry, such as Wes Clark, Bob Kerrey and Joe Biden fell victim to the “numbers:” didn’t win either on national polls or with support from democratic lobbying group. But, any of these would have added to the national security strength of the ticket, and national security turns out to be the ONLY issue on which the Democrats could lose against Bush. As good a campaigner as Edwards is, he did not meet that criteria, and Kerry struggled against his advisors on this decision for a long time.

The second was the decision from back in May not to invest in major operation to counter the Swiftboat group. The decision to ignore them or “give them rope” was made by advisors who had no real sense of grassroots passions regarding honesty and valor among the Vets or the people to whom they were appealing.

They did not connect the effects of an attack on Kerry’s honesty regarding his war service, with support from Vet families, with his generally perceived credibility as Commander in Chief. This decision proved disastrous later, when the DNC was unprepared to hammer back the charges.

Just imagine the difference if there was a Wes Clark on the ticket, armed with all the facts, immediately hammering back the Swift Vet Smear. Kerry could have come out and expressed his personal anger at this attack on his honor, with some real backup and with the party ready to roll-out a credible counter-offensive.

Kerry’s advisors have failed him. Kerry would have got better advice just talking to his "band of brothers." Bringing in Mike Whouley and some others will help. But, he may also have to get rid of some of the mild-mannered advisers who have given him bad advice.

[Trajan]

1. I agree about the SBL thing ....

But: I adore Edwards .. and I think he was the right choice ...

[papau]

9. Get Carville to help Mary Beth - and problems will go away.

I do not see Edwards as a major problem - or as a major asset as yet.

But he does he does have potential to help at the edges.

[KittyWampus]

35. Carville Has A Magic Wand?

How do you know there haven't been unofficial consultations?

[renotyme]

44. have to ask mary matalin

but for her to put up with his 'only a mother could love face' i'd say yes he probably does.

[papau]

54. LOL - :-)

:-)

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

46. When polled, the majority of people indicated they wanted Kerry

to pick Edwards. I think Kerry needs to be hitting harder and needs to get some more aggressive people on board, like Carville, who won't fuck around. Fire the Cahill and get Carville on board. I'm optimistic, but am getting a little worried, frankly.

[Skwmom]

49. And why is that?

Could it be that the media cheerleading for Edwards had the desired result?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. Give me a break Your post-mortem is a bit premature.

I don't accept any of your premises and therefore I find no value in your conclusions.

[Racenut20]

3. Did you just describe another Gore campaign ???

Sometimes the main problem with a campaign is the candidate, and he/she surrounds themselves with people who agree with them.

[CityDem]

14. Rings true

If the campaign is floundering the responsibilty lies with candidate. Don't blame Edwards or the staff - blame the man at the top of ticket.

[WiseMen]

18. I disagree. Kerry has always been more radical that those who surround him

in the Senate.

[JPJones]

4. Would you like to borrow my time machine?

You can go back to March and warn everyone.

[CatWoman]

5. Hey Raya

I've seen a couple threads from you, all down on the Kerry campaign.

What are YOUR credentials?

Why not try to volunteer to work for them, since you have so many opinions and "solutions".

Just wondering..........

[Karenina]

10. pssssst... CW......

My gut reaction to the OP, after having read the others was, "STUFF A FUCKIN' SOCK IN IT, ALREADY." (Cleaned up version). But I didn't want to be rude or anything. ;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Yep!

Two in two days

[bahrbearian]

6. Good observation.

[wurzel]

7. They keep taking the Media advice. "Don't be negative!" Meantime

The media is give the greatest coverage ever to the most negative ad ever aired. The Media is not on our side. I don't know when we will learn this.

[snyder]

29. Bingo!

One of these years, the Democrats are going to learn that it's the kiss of death to do what the media tells you to do. The media is like the bully in a prison movie. Once you give in, then he's your cell daddy and he'll play with you and degrade you for the sport of it. Kerry's campaign somehow thinks that the media respects Kerry. This couldn't possibly be further from the truth.

[wurzel]

45. "You take the high road." " We'll cut you off at the knees!"

Gore fell for this and look what happened. When will we ever learn. When will we EVER LEARN!!!!

[Skwmom]

50. They took the media advice in selecting the candidate, in

selecting the VP so why stop now?

[liveoaktx]

8. Pffttt! What heavy price? This sounds like a RNC Talking Point

mild-mannered being the word to attempt to associate with Kerry's troupe.

Nope. Kerry, in my book, did just the right thing. Edwards, an experienced trial lawyer is the perfect foil for corrupt, sneering puppeteer Cheney.

And, for all the money spent, it seems like Bush has gotten the worst of the Swifites deal, since more people think he's associated with dirty smear tactics now, without causing a mass crisis in the polls for Kerry.

[quinnox]

11. Maybe Kerry should hire you to set things straight

As an advisor. I'm sure then Kerry's campaign would take a 20 point lead very shortly.

[swag]

12. Oh you again. You started a bashing thread yesterday too, right?

This is getting quite dreary.

[soothsayer]

13. Kerry and Edwards rock, and I like their clean campaign

They're good guys!

[HootieMcBoob]

20. i'm not laughing

:nuke:

[WiseMen]

15. I Believe Kerry is doing some Re-Org in his team. I know that Max C.

was sidelined at one point because some were calling him a loose cannon.

And I definitely know that the team has been over-loaded with
middle-of-the-road types from the earliest days of the campaign.

[David Zephyr]

16. Still Feel Clark Would Have Been Better Choice, But This Is What We Have.

Clearly, North Carolina will never fall our way and I argued here that point and that Clark would have delivered the really tight states of Arkanasas, Missouri and Louisiana...and all of their electoral votes, but...

I'm behind the ticket as the rest is just wishful thinking and second-guessing and does no good at this point.

The choice we are faced with is: Bush/Cheney or Kerry/Edwards.

That's all that matters. I'm doing everything I can for the second option because the first is no option.

[Carolinian]

31. Then we'd be mired down in Clark military record arguments. Edwards

was the right choice.

[FrenchieCat]

38. Maybe, Maybe not....

Cause there wasn't anything in Clark's military records except winning the only NATO War fought without any Military Casualties. All of the other "Crap" was brought out and shot down during the primaries. If anything...most of Clark's perceived flaws during the primaries (his support of the Flag Burning amemdment, voting for Republicans, not being a politician (no votes)wouldn't have been issues during the General...and if fact could be used as pluses. Also the fact that he stayed in the military after Vietnam....even after suffering 4 bullet wounds (his Purple Hearts and Silver star would have re-inforced Kerry's--and there were no controversies over them), and having to learn to walk and shake hands again wouldn't have hurt.

Wacko was a dud (no link direct link to him at all)...
The Hat exchange could have been jutapoxed against Rumsfeld with Saddam (would have loved to hear that debate).
The Starting World War III comment has been attributed to Gen. Jackson (a Brit with many problems)
His early retirement engineered by Shelton and Cohen (who were discredited at the time) was buffered by receiving the civilian's highest medal (Medal of Freedom)in 2000.
Shelton's comments (while he was advising the Edwards campaign)about Clark's character were taken back by Shelton during the Melosovich trials in Dec '03....when he was asked....he answered "it was just politics".

Here's the crap coming down the pipeline for Edwards......

The United States Chamber of Commerce and other business groups plan to spend roughly $10 million attacking trial lawyers, including Senator John Edwards, by financing a new organization that will run television and mail advertisements in critical swing states.
http://tinyurl.com/4ojpg

Need to get busy setting up defenses for Edwards....looks like.

[Tarheel_Dem]

17. you know what i always find suspect?.....

is that these kinds of posts come from people who have racked up more than a thousand posts, and have never seen fit to contribute to the upkeep of "Democratic Underground", the key word being "Democratic". Your excellent advice should guarantee you a top spot on the Kerry-Edwards advisory board. :eyes:

btw, how many elections have YOU won?

[HootieMcBoob]

19. Why isn't Wes Clark on every TV show eathing those bastards alive?

They're not making the best use of the one person who would tear everyone of those idiots a new asshole.

[mellowinman]

21. This thread is dogshit

I will now amuse you by stringing fuckwords together for no apparent purpose.

Fuck this fucking fucked fuckery. It is fucking fucked. I'm so fucking sick of fucking fucked doomfucking threads I could fuck. Why not fucking spend your time fucking, instead of fucking up a good fucking thing? I fucking ask you, what the fuck? Why fuck with fucked up fuckers when you can just fuck the fucked up fuckers and tell them to get fucked?

Fuck it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

23. couldn't have said it better myself............

:yourock:

[UTUSN]

22. Please Save Up the Winning Decision Milestones

for a post when we win.

[WiseMen]

25. I have met with some of the Kerry "entourage." Kerry will WIN despite weak

advice driven by political expedience.

[Skwmom]

51. "Political expedience"

Now there is a word that really sums up Kerry/Edwards.

[molly]

24. Is this why he is doing so well?

"John Kerry has been surrounded by a suffocating web of mild-mannered consultants that have steered him into some poor strategic decisions."

When I consistently see negative posts, I try to recall who the poster supported in the primaries. Then, I ask if this is SOUR GRAPES .

I really like Wes Clark, but I think he has enough strategic training to keep calm and think like the stategist he is. I doubt that he would be doing much differently. Why don't you email him and ask him?

[indyjones1938]

26. Oh please

John Edwards is, by no means, "mild-mannered." He is a fighter who has been underestimated all his life, and has proven his opponents wrong at every turn. He has a genuine concern for small-town Americans and for those struggling to make ends meet.

You sound like a bitter Clarkie. That's all there is to it. And I thought Deaniancs and Kucinichiacs were bad. Geez.

The fact is, Edwards is the best asset that the Kerry campaign has. He has been criss-crossing the country, drumming up support through town hall meetings and front porch discussions - the settings in which he is at his prime. CNN and Fox News don't cover these meetings, of course. They're too busy beating a dead swift boat horse.

But then again, CNN didn't cover the Kerry rally in Portland where he drew nearly 50,000 people. They were too busy carrying Bush's 600-person, "invitation only" meeting down the street.

[Carolinian]

30. Yep, a bitter Clarkie. Why don't you guys

just get over it? BTW, if Gen. Clark is such a great asset to the democratic party why doesn't he shut down his blog that's always trashing Kerry and Edwards?

[Raya]

33. Never a "Clarkie." Don't have to be a partisan to have a brain.

[KittyWampus]

36. Raya Was NOT A Clarkie. I've Been Here Long Enough To Recognize

most of us Clarkies.

[cidliz2004]

43. "Just get over it.."

That is what the Repubublicans say when someone mentions the 2000 election. I would expect better from a Democrat.

Can't help but notice where you are from...a little biased?

Clark was the best choice PERIOD.

Edwards is O.K., but so far he isn't much help to Kerry - we'll see if it gets any better. The biggest problem is that the VP is supposed to be the attack dog, JE doesn't like attacking too much, whereas Clark is great at it and comes from a place of great experience and expertise that give him the respect to be able to voice those opinions. The battle going on right now....Iraq, Vietnam, FP...all Clark's strenghth.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. I interrupt your morale destroying rant (second one in two days)

to remind you that there is no proof that what Kerry is doing ISN'T working. He is STILL neck and neck with Bush regardless of a couple polls and has KEPT his 75 million in the bank letting the SwiftBoaters self destruct on their own lack of credibility.

I would also remind you that if he WERE to campaing negatively it would SUPPRESS voter turnout which SUPPRESSES Democratic voter turnout and favors Republicans.

Polls from yesterday demonstrate that the public DOES believe Bush is behind the SwiftBoat attacks. The Repub convention will be telling and there are still two months left.

[Raya]

32. Sorry if sound like a rant? I just think we need to face up to mistakes

as we regroup for the final stretch. Too many are whistling
in the dark, without any reflection on missteps.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

55. I don't think it was a mistake

YOu think it took. I think it took with those leaning toward Bush anyway and that he waited until the SwiftLiars blew their wad then outed them for the liars they are and ripped their credibility out from under them. Bush is not coming out of this looking very good regardless of the polls. People have to decide whether to stay the course or trust Kerry to change it. He can still reach out to them and has opportunities to do so...meanwhile, Bush did not come out of this looking like an innocent bystander in this smear campaign.

[KittyWampus]

34. Your Relentless Negativity Is Disruptive

Kerry is by far the best prepared candidate to deal with Junior/Rove.

He is doing a good job.

Thank heavens you aren't involved in his campaign.

Who did you support in the primaries?

It's time to get over it.

[PopSixSquish]

37. Out of Curiousity

How many political campaigns have you run? Ever been an advisor to?

You do realize that Senator Kerry is ahead in many state polls and essentially tied in the national polls. Are there things the campaign could be doing better? Sure. But things could be a lot worse.

In the meantime, what are you doing to help the campaign? Registering new voters, raising money, walking precints, putting up yard signs, writing letters to the editor of your local paper or just sitting there bitching about it on DU.

[Raya]

39. All of the above, plus traveling to Nevada on my own dime to help there.

A lot of folk on the edges of the campaign see the lack of
passion in some of the circle around Kerry and are really
concerned that John need to fire some of the folk.

A friend who was involved in the campaign from the beginning (way before me)
has been ostracized because she was blowing the whistle on
some of the endless "calculation" going on before any reaction
to what was a clear attack on the Senators honor and integrity.

There really are some folk around Kerry who are not grassroots,
not activist and not passionate about the contest.

[FrenchieCat]

40. I think

that you have a right to post your misgivings all you want. Others have the right to comment pro/con the details that you provide.

Thank God for Democracy where we can all have a voice, and don't need to be pringles in a can.

I see some mistakes with the Kerry Campaign's approach too....but I dare not post them...as my character would be slimed too.

I think it is healthy not to believe that no mistakes have been made.

I, for one, welcome a little levity in the matter of the kerry campaign and it's handling of matters. It appears that Kerry is open to listening to different points of view and attempting to rectify what he can, when he can and how he can. That counts for something.

Kerry and his campaign need "Yes" men surrounding them like I need a hole in my heart.

If you watch the Kerry Tacoma Video, you will see that Kerry is re-adjusting for the blows he has been receiving. The gloves appear to be off, the way many had hoped a while back.

Criticism and dissent in a Democracy his healthy. I also believe that this is what DU is all about to begin with. Not to serve as a "in tune" choir.

[sampsonblk]

41. Agreed, but we gotta all make the best of what we have

Can't change the ticket now. So we gotta all pull together and try to get Kerry over the top.

[WiseMen]

42. Just Got some Info. Kerry IS doing some shake-up. Wants to keep tough

response going and Clark, Cleland etc should continue to be
prominent in the counter-offensive.

Big question is whether MoveOn will keep funding hard-hitting
attack on Bush.

Should recover momentum within weeks.

[PATRICK]

47. Kerry is not Gore

If he is getting bad advice(who doesn't) he will be in charge and critical as is his style. he has made mistakes in this area and has quickly shaken up staff and recovered. Edwards is NOT Kerry's campaign staff but a complement. Obviously too rich a smorgasbord of choices for every need.

Instead someone relishes looking into the 'dark lining' of doubt and despair and would have Kerry running around axing everyone, wringing his hands and hoping people agree with his guru choices.

That itself is the lousiest advice I have seen whatever the course. I hope it isn't Raya's personal cure all.

[oasis]

48. We should stay focused on kicking the "liberal"media in the rear end

until they show signs of providing unbiased coverage.

The ignorance of the general public continues to be Karl Rove's best ally .

[John_H]

52. Raya may be a little much and also dead wrong about edwards BUT

I gotta tell ya, I know many, many, many smart and experienced dems who are expressing nearly identical sentiments.

Whouley and Sosnik will undoubtedly bring about changes of various kinds of small changes and more importantly, as Kerry must know, that if Chimp get's any kind of a bounce Kerry's going to need some real fighters. Fast.

[Raya]

53. Thank you, kind sir. I love Edwards, but we Dems act like pampered kids

sometimes, always insisting on what we like, rather than what
is necessary to survive this fight and overcome a truly evil
regime that we are up against. I know of some in the
campaign who were worried, at the time of the V.P. selection,
about exactly the circumstance that we face now, and they were ignored in favor of a babble of interest groups that needed to be satisfied.