Cut the Crap! Must have been a Million Protestors! 20 NYC "long blocks"

[KoKo]

filled with "protestors" against Bush and his policies and C-Span showed it as starting at 12:00 est. and ending shortly after 4:00 p.m. est.

I'm not a math person...but I did live in NYC at one time...and NYC "blocks" are long...so "20 blocks on 7th Avenue filled with protestors...and they were "wall to wall" (as viewed on C-Span) says it was a "mighty amount" of Protestors.

Yet...Media doesn't acknowledge it...and discounts it. I heard a snip of Chris Matthews saying ..."It looks like my old 60's College Crowd"..with "yucks to his guests on his show." I was around when Matthews was "non-protesting" and I think this was the LARGEST PROTEST IN US HISTORY!!!! And, No One was there, except C-Span to cover it..

Maybe my figures are off...or I'm so math deficient I can't do Algebra to figure NYC 20 Blocks times "Wall to Wall" folks marching for 4 hours...but I am so glad that these folks represented those of us who couldn't be there for us...whatever the "whore media" says. :shrug:

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. I think that they mean 20 blocks N-S, .1 mile ones. not the Long E-W

ones The march was up 7th ave.

[KoKo]

4. Yes, the protest was up 7th avenue.....I used to live off 7th avenue..NYC

blocks are still long blocks...when you say 20 blocks, it's not like it's 20 blocks in the "heartland of America."

[Fovea]

2. It was historical. It was huge, and that was just the small view that

CSPAN gave. They also showed the warmth of NY's feelings about Fox News.

[LanternWaste]

3. Line of marchers over two miles long as per CBS News

CBS Evening News reported that the line of marchers was over two miles long!!!

[AnnInLa]

5. MSNBC

reported that the police called it 200,000. The organizers called it 400,000. (?)

[freetobegay]

6. Cut the crap is right

There is no way there were a million marchers! I have been to a march with that many people, this didn't even come close.

[Misunderestimator]

25. Wow, you've been to a march with a million protestors... which one?

[freetobegay]

39. The march on Washington 1993

On EDIT: Now don't you feel silly for not knowing the answer to your own question? That was the defining moment in Gay rights movement.

[Misunderestimator]

40. I hadn't heard about a million person march then... what was the group?

[freetobegay]

41. HOMOSEXUALS!

[Misunderestimator]

44. Now you've got me curious. There were 1 million homosexuals...

who marched on Washington in 1993, and I never heard about it.
:wow:

[freetobegay]

54. Self delete

on edit: If you don't know anything about the 1993 March on Washington, I can't help you.

[Misunderestimator]

55. I know about A march on Washington that involved gay/lesbian and bi rights

but I did not know that there were a million people there. I also can't find anything that quotes actual numbers. Sorry to piss you off, as I apparently did with your last post. Just was curious.

[K-W]

53. Unless you have magic powers

there is no way you could possibly know this. To claim that you can estimate the size of a protest by standing inside of it would require you to be some kind of amazing X-Man.

Your level of certainty is highly suspect.

[freetobegay]

62. Not my numbers, Park Police numbers

& yes they were highly susspect, because organizer's had the number higher.

[KelleyKramer]

7. Judging from Cspan it was over 1 million

They had SCORES of people walking by for FOUR full hours

Indy media reported 35 blocks, but if it was for four hours then many people would have finished before others ever started.

Had to be well over 1 million

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. It was a continuous stream of people for over 4 hours

This wasn't like a rally where you have all the people in the same place, at the same time.

Too bad we'll never know, how many people were really there. But from watching C-SPAN, it was a least 1/2 million.

[Paradise]

22. looked like a million to me! n/t

[napi21]

8. I saw one statement that the coordinators were saying there

were 400,000 protestors. I don't know how to calculate the number of people either. I suspect there will be more estimates in the next few hours or by tomorrow morning.

It sure was a whole lot of people though! I watched c-span for a while, and all I could say was "Holy sh*t, look at all those people!"

[Dr.Phool]

42. March for Womens Lives

In April had 1.1 million people. At the time it was the largest in US history. I hope this ones bigger.

[stewert]

9. I Heard 35 & 40...........

I heard one source say the crowd was 35 blocks long, and another said 40 blocks long. And I also heard it was 2 miles long.

The video on C-SPAN proves it was way more than 250,000, probably closer to a million from what I saw.

[malachibk]

14. OK, Here's (part of) the lowdown

March route : 20 blocks on 7th, 11 blocks on 5th, 9 blocks on B'Way.

That's 40 blocks.

I know, 'cause I just walked 'em!

Now, I was at the END and didn't move AT ALL from noon to 1:30. NOT ONE INCH. Then I finished up at 4:20 (ha) but lost about 20 minutes when the fire closes stuff down.

So I'd say it took me (young and spy and wanting to MARCH, you know?) 3 hours.

So if someone can figure out how many people from this info -- GO FOR IT!

[KoKo]

20. Thanks....I think someone could do that math for us...and hopefully

someone will show up, here who can do "algebra" with that "PI Square, thingy," who will give us the close to "real" statistics...but it was a HUGE Demonstrations...and I say it was the LARGEST in US HISTORY...until someone proves what I say differently. :shrug:

[WolverineDG]

36. nbc reported

that there were folks finishing up at union square before those at the back had even started marching!!! yup, if someone told me that means there were close to 1 million there, i'd believe them. i started watching it about 12 pm central....i had to crack up laughing when they never got around to showing shrubbie in west virginia...guess the march went on longer than ANYONE (including CSPAN) thought it would.

:)

dg

[Stephanie]

45. You left out crosstown from 7th Ave to 5th Ave

From about 12:15 to 3:10 we got from 18th to 34th - 3 hours to move 16 blocks. Packed the whole way. So packed you really had to keep track of people or they would get swallowed up. We lost one along the way.

[Dookus]

10. well...

crowd estimation is always difficult, if not impossible.

If there were a million people, and the route was filled for 20 blocks, that's 50,000 per block.

Midtown manhattan N/S streets are roughly a tenth of a mile long. So that's 50,000 people per linear tenth of mile (528 feet). That requires roughly 100 people abreast, marching one foot behind the line in front of them.

Seems pretty tight, to me.

[Warpy]

23. that's assuming it was only 20 blocks

However, one report put it at 35 blocks by the end. If the 35 block figure is true, it could easily have been a million folks.

[Stephanie]

46. It was extremely tight.

I don't know if it was 100 abreast, though. But the one foot behind is about right.

[RhodaGrits]

57. I knew we could count on you for a reality check here :-)

But given your facts... I was in that crowd. There had to be at least 50 people abreast and the parade route was really about 35-40 blocks long (14th to 34th then across and down Broadway to Union Square which is at 14th St again). I started at 17th street and it took me 1.5 hrs to get to the starting point. I was never more than 1 ft apart from another human being in 4 directions so "tight" is what it was (especially in that heat!) So my conservative guesstimate would be 25k/block for 35-40 blocks - that is more than a half million. I'm going to post some pics on a new thread.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

58. Your density equals my estimate for 300,000 people

If you are no more than a foot from another person, then you are occupying 4 sq. ft. But as stated in the 3rd response to me on that thread, you may increase that number by how many people exceeded the full route length. I estimated last week Union Sq. could hold 200,000 max... so add to that a full route's worth of marchers enroute and you have half a million.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2283887#2284393

[edhopper]

11. I was there and think it was at least

half a million. I've been in crowds that big in Times Square on New Years Eve when the media claim 2 million or more. But an Anti-Bush protest gets shorted. The same scene in Spain or Italy and you hear it's in the millions, in NY I keep hearing tens of thousands on the networks. Shame on them!

[Eloriel]

18. ANY people's protest gets minimized and usually

also trivialized. They cut the numbers anywhere from 1/2 to 1/10 of the total.

[hansolsen]

49. Yes, and when peaceful protests are ignored and trivialized, people

with valid grievances naturaly escalate the nature of their protests in order to be heard. That is the point. When the media and governing elites refuse to hear, really hear, valid grievances from their own citizens, democracy starts to get a little unglued.

If you want to see an extreme of what happens when world leaders refuse to hear quiet protest, just look at the middle east and the Arab / Israeli dispute. That is the road we are on when our corporate owned and managed media ignore, trivialize, minimize, and marginalize a demonstration such as the one in NYC today.

Damn them.

[ecstatic]

12. The Million Dem March.. hehe nt

[nostamj]

15. NBC reported:

"filled 45 blocks"

FWIW

[G_j]

17. yes I think 20 blocks

does not include all the huge 'feeder' marches.

I also heard 35 blocks.

[ClintonTyree]

16. Yahoo reporting.....................

10's of thousands! :eyes:

[Kimber Scott]

19. The police have some kind of formula with which to count crowds

using areal photography and grids. They know, but they won't say how many people were there. It feels more and more like the USSR here, instead of the US of A.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

21. over a million!.it took more than 5 hours for the protesters to pass MSG..

and they are still marching!...only c-span had to break off coverage.

[KoKo]

24. Yes...I think it might be over "a million," too, but don't expect

verification any time soon for these numbers. ;-)'s

[IronLionZion]

26. How many people fit in ONE block?

and then we can figure this thing out.

And it's important to know how many blocks were occupied at ONE GIVEN POINT IN TIME to avoid overlaps. Keep in mind that some people may have finished before others even started and so on.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Good thread with arithmetic here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2280129#2281078

which makes a good case for about half a million.

Another way to look at it: say it took 5 hours for everyone to pass one point on the march. If there were 1 million people, that means 1,000,000/(5 * 60 * 60) = 55 people passing by every second for the full 5 hours. That seems a lot to me. The organisers figure of 400,000 seems much more realistic.

[KoKo]

30. 400,000 maybe...if someone does the math which you seemed to do...

but I would guess 600 to 800 thousand..and maybe a million? If you look from beginning stragglers to the end? :shrug:

Whatever...humongous...and only C-Span took time to notice...UGH!

[nyhuskyfan]

31. Not everyone would have marched the whole route, though...

Madison Square Garden is on top of a major train station (Penn Station) that services all of the Long Island Rail Road, as well as Amtrak. I'm sure lots of people got off a train and started marching from there (roughly the midway point). Others, particularly the elderly, maybe only marched for an hour or two, especially on a hot day.

It's obviously impossible to know exactly how many people were there. The best bet for estimates are the aerial shots that show how dense the crowd was and how far they were stretched out. NBC said that when the people at the front of the march reached the end point at Union Square, there were still people waiting to start marching at the beginning, so the entire parade route was covered at its peak with reserves in waiting.

[Stephanie]

47. 55 per second is not unrealistic at all

I think that sounds right.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. Really?

You think you could get 55 people (not regimented soldiers - just normal people, walking at their own pace) to march abreast down a street, and then 1 second later another 55 - and keep that up for 5 hours? With everyone at the front keeping moving at the speed needed so they never hold those behind them up?

I think it just wouldn't be possible. Trust the organisers. They did a great job, and will have put a lot of thought into how to get the march to work. If they reckon it was 400,000, you need a good reason to say it was more than twice what they saw.

[renegade000]

28. it may have been less than a million

but...definitely WAY more than "tens of thousands"

[KelleyKramer]

29. Over 2 million! heres the geeky math..

According to the first-hand account in post #14 the march was 40 blocks long. It took him approx 3hrs to walk it. The march went on a MINIMUM of 4 hours, so that means there were one third more people than the actual route at any one time (probably more, but will use the low end).

So that’s 40 blocks + 13 blocks = 53 blocks total. Estimates are 30-50k of people per block. Take the middle average and that’s 40k people times 53 blocks ....

That’s 2,120,000 anti-Bush protestors in New York today!!

[leftchick]

33. Now that Math....

I Love!! :loveya:

[KoKo]

34. Wow..that could be true! But media said 20 blocks so I based my post

on that...even though camera pans and timing seemed to say it that the protest might be over 20 blocks, not knowing how far a camera pans in NYC down a straight avenue...I really couldn't say. But, having lived there the crowds and timing and street width of the protestors looked to me like closer to a million.

Your estimate if halved for 20 blocks instead of 40 would still say it was WAY OVER the Media final estimates.

I still say...this was the biggest demo in American History...I wonder who will step up to the plate and say this though...:-( not our "ususal
"media whore" suspects, I think.

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. Where does '30-50k people per block' come from?

Going north to south, these should be 'short blocks' (ie counting Streets, not Avenues), of which there are 20 to the mile (and that would make the march 2 miles long - believable). That makes them 267 feet long. Say the street is 80 feet wide (including sidewalks). That makes one block about 20,000 square feet. Anyone marching needs 2 feet by 3 feet, which is about 3500 people per block.

I think we're better off trusting the organisers' figures. They'll know where people were joining, how fast they were moving, how crowded they were. Say 400,000 people.

[slor]

32. I went to the Feb. 15th protest in New York...

and they said about "100,000". Believe me, it was much closer to 1 million.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

37. Me too-and it was FREEZING in Feb.

and today it was hot as hell.

[VOX]

38. Washington Post is now saying "Over 200,000"...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/
Over 200,000 Turn Out to Protest Bush in New York
Vice President launches Republican convention as thousands peacefully show disapproval of current policies.
<snip>

Which, technically, is true -- a million certainly is "over 200,000." But this sounds a bit, ahem, conservative.

[KoKo]

43. ahem...WaPo...is sort of "conservative" these days. Over 200,000...like

whoa dude..how many over 200,000 is close to a million? :D Imagine the "media" will sort it to the downside in reports...and if one didn't see it themselve on C-Span they would believe it. It was huge...so we should feel good and certainly those who were there should feel great about the turnout...

[Gregorian]

51. That's about what my crude math estimate says, too

50 blocks, 100 feet wide by a tenth of a mile long. I figure there are ten people in a 12 by 12 foot square. That comes to about 180,000. But it's crude, because the density isn't fixed, and it was an open event with people coming and going. It was probably bigger than my estimate. A quarter million? Who knows....

[katym]

48. cnn.com says "tens of thousands"

And of course the other networks arent covering it.... fox is owned by a conservative, for sure...and others, as we already know, are very well influence by the bush administration.
But I did see coverage on CNN headline news, and theres stuff on their website right now.

[Onlooker]

50. What a gorgeous day in New York City!

Warm, but not too humid, a perfect blue sky, a cool breeze, and tens of thousands of protesters all having a grand old time! I arrived with a couple friends at noon. It was absolutely packed. We waited on a side street with thousands of others for over an hour before we could squeeze into the march route.

It was so much fun. People were friendly, chanting, waving. All sorts of great signs and costumes. People of all ages. One old lady held a sign that said "I'm 84 years old and never saw a president as bad as this one." There were a lot of vets, a lot of traditional democrats, and a lot of other progressives The police were polite and restrained, allowing marchers to walk on both sides of the barriers. Many of the NYC residents hung anti-Bush banners from their windows.

When we walked past the RNC site, everyone booed and chanted Bush has got to go. The people behind the barricades looked so Republican. When we walked past Faux News everyone chanted Fox News sucks!

I saw only one pro-Bush person, and that was some deranged looking fellow who feared God.

[Q]

56. The streets were packed with protesters from all over the country...

...and that's all we need to know. The Bushies and their media can spin this any way they want...but critical mass has been reached and there's no way to ignore the explosion of people showing up to demonstate against the most corruption government in American history.

[deutsey]

60. Hear Hear

I was there. The march on Sunday was HUGE. People who have been on DU for a while may know that I've been to quite a few large demonstration since Bush stole the election in 2000. The NYC march on Sunday was among the largest I've ever attended. My gut says that at least 400,000 (but I think it much more) were there.

[GingerSnaps]

59. NY's blocks are very wide

It had to be over 1 million at the march yesterday.

You have to excuse Tweety he got his knob polished by Bush and he is still realing from it.

[misterphelps]

61. Cops told me...

500K. That came from 4 or 5 different cops along the route. Probably low, but maybe right. At it's height it went in a continuous loop from 7th and 14th a the way to Union Square. It was wall to wall.

Fox news last night said "tens of thousands".

I'm sorry, but if you are are a Repuglican and saw that, you had to be afraid. Nothing compares