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Moment of Truth, folks. It's slipping away. Can we get it back? HOW?

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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:30 AM
Original message
Moment of Truth, folks. It's slipping away. Can we get it back? HOW?
Edited on Tue Aug-31-04 08:09 AM by Merlin
Bush is back on top BIG TIME in leadership on the WOT. Kerry has gone MIA on the media. And this is all BEFORE the RNC turns Shrubby into a deity.

Have we lost it already? Is it over?

If things are OK, then how come I don't feel good?
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DemNoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. My recommendation for you is
Get a spine transplant.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I was trying to be nicer...
but yeah, you're right. :-)
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Bettie Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. I don't know what to say
But I REFUSE to give up hope until all the votes are in.

Though I do wish that Kerry and Edwards were out there this week, the sad fact is that they will get no media coverage at all during the coronation.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. I disagree..
They WOULD get media coverage if they were on the campaign trail this week....all of the NEGATIVE kind.

The media would be all over them for the "uncivil tactics they are employing, especially since the (p)resident kept away from the campaign trail during the DNC".

The time to take off the gloves will be after the RNC is over, and especially after Labor Day, (Once again, the "traditional" beginning of campaigns)when the majority of people really begin the focus on the upcoming election.

By that time, the Kerry campaign will be able to truthfully say something like "OK, folks, we tried to keep this campaign about the issues. We tried to stay above the dirt and slime. But if you prefer to get in the mud, we can play that game too. BRING IT ON".!

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Bettie Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. You are right
Thank you for clarifying this.

Upon reflection, I see that you are totally right on this. I had not considered the negative press aspect of the thing.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. How do you get back on top
by saying you can't win it?
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. Kerry is no MIA.
It is customary for candidates to keep a low profile during the opponents Convention.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. Because you're not paying attention to history.
1) No incumbent has won re-election with numbers this bad at this point.

2) Bush 41 was booted from office WITHOUT nearly 500,000 people protesting him.

3) There is exactly one, and ONLY one, iron-clad law of politics that is always true: It's the people with an axe to grind that get their asses to the polls. We're more pissed off than any sitting president has ever seen a constituency. Meanwhile, there are millions of true conservatives that are not happy with Bush for his fiscal irresponsibility and his erosion of civil rights. They aren't going to be enthused about going out to vote, and many of them won't. Here's the important part: THERE IS NO POLL THAT CAN ACCOUNT FOR THIS!!!!

So cheer up! We've got a lot to be hopeful about.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. OH God Here it goes again...Yesterdays chicken littles are here today
Edited on Tue Aug-31-04 07:40 AM by trumad
Imagine being in a fox hole and the moment of truth is upon you...either die in the hole or fight.... Well Fight God Damn it...

Nah...you would rather shrivel up and get a bayonet in the fox hole...

UGGGGGGGGGGG
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Don't need any lectures about combat, thank you.
I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted you with me in the battle of LZ West when the enemy broke through our defenses and we were getting our asses kicked and had to figure out how to turn the situation around. You'd have probably been down under one of the cots in a hootch talking about how we're just doing fine and I shouldn't be so negative.

Get your head out of your ass, why don't you, and pay attention to the question. In case you haven't noticed, JK is currently losing the race. Hello! Anybody home?

So the question is: what do we do to get it back.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Just wanna make sure... you weren't talking about me, right?
Because I'm definitely not saying the sky is falling.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Tell your iron law to McGovern and Mondale. n/t
.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Okay, good, you've ignored history twice now.
The country was not that pissed off when McGovern and Mondale ran. Some were, but most weren't. Certainly not like today.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. Obviously you weren't around in '72.
The country is NOWHERE NEAR AS POLARIZED NOW AS IT WAS IN '72. I was there, marching in VVAW rallies. Read a little history before you lecture others about it.




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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. That's funny, you seem to hold a minority opinion.
And just because you were amongst the marchers, that doesn't make you among the majority.
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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. I'm with you on this one.
Edited on Tue Aug-31-04 09:01 AM by 56kid
I can't believe that people think the country is more polarized now than it was in 1972.
Sheesh.
We haven't had any riots in the streets yet or anybody getting killed in demonstrations in America this year.
Just for starters.

Maybe you could make an argument that the polarization is about the same, but my instinct is still that it was more polarized in 1972.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. There are some important differences.
There were a lot more soldiers dying, and communism was viewed as a much bigger threat than men with box cutters.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
52. Ummmm, yeah.
The country was not that pissed off when McGovern and Mondale ran.

I think you just lost all hope of winning this little argument.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. Gut Check Time
I'm not depressed, I'm angry and getting angrier. I hope others are feeling the same way as this parade of lies and deceptions play out. We're seeing a multi-leveled PR blitz/attack...using every trick in the book and then some to sway public opinion and create a "popularity" for the manchild similar to making a new teen pop star. It's all artificial, purely symbolic and purposely designed to distract any dissent.

Everyone I talk to these days is as upset as I am...if not more, and you can see the numbers still continuing to grow here on DU as testiment that we may be quiet at the moment, we are far from silent. This forum and others are keeping us together and energizing us and let us use this power to positive results.

My suggestion to anyone who is worried or ready to give in, go to your local Democratic party headquarters...just go for a Kerry sticker...not to donate or anything else. Talk to the people there for a bit...hopefuly your anger can be turned into activism and this latest test on our resolve will make us even stronger.

If we can't take these shots, how are we ever going to put these bastards back in the box they belong in? If refusing to play the same deceptions and standing firm on truth and facts is playing the high ground, so be it. Chin up and this isn't a knock, it's a boost. Let's really make these assholes pay for all the grief they've visited upon this country...and there are few people in this country you can't find at least one or several of these issues they are more than happy to talk about. Once that begins...and it will...this regime will collapse.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. It's a marathon, not a sprint
You're absolutely right. It's not about who's ahead more, it's about who's ahead at the end. We have to be able to take a few shots here and there.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. Tap Wes Clark as his National Security Advisor. Wes vs. Condi..
Hmmmmm
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. self delete dupe
Edited on Tue Aug-31-04 07:46 AM by Kahuna
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. I'm not giving an inch....
Edited on Tue Aug-31-04 07:46 AM by Claire_beth
it is up to US and I plan to keep on fighting everyday as hard as I can. I KNOW there are more people who are UNHAPPY with Dubya than there are those who are satisfied. It is up to *US* to make sure we reach out to those who are fed up and make sure we get them to the polls. I'm not giving up an INCH to the gopers. We CAN win this election and we WILL if everyone gets out there and helps.

:kick:



NEVER GIVE UP!!! NEVER NEVER NEVER
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. It's not over if the party fights
but with the DLC having so much power in the party, I don't think they will fight enough.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Don't let it overwhelm you.
It's very difficult having almost an entire week where the RNC is in the spotlight. It can really distort one's view of reality, especially the differences in the way the media is covering the two conventions. I've been in a really dark mood these past few days and haven't even turned on the tv! I think it's the fear that these uber-Nazi's want to impose their ugly vision of America on the rest of us and everyone in the world. However, this will pass.

BTW, Bush will never 'win' a presidential election.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. <snicker> Uh-huh
Maybe you don't feel well because you have a virus or something. Kerry will win this in a walk.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
15. Well, I can see that 2/3 of you are still asleep. Dreaming won't win it.
You can flame me all you want for being a defeatist. I'm a big boy.

Of course if you read my post clearly, you'd understand I'm not saying it's over. I'm asking how the hell do we get back on top.

Or maybe some of you haven't noticed that Bush has gone up on us commandingly in the vital area of WOT leadership.

Time to wake up, shake the cobwebs out of your brain, and actually think about the damn question:

How do we get it back again?

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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. You claim you haven't give up, yet you ask if we've already lost?
Right.... :eyes:
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. You might try getting reading glasses.
Maybe then you could read my damn post correctly.

In case you need further clarification, obviously it's not over yet or I wouldn't be asking the question.

But the question is a serious one. I think actually you're just looking for ways to avoid answering it.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. No, I read it perfectly right.
I know I sure as hell have never asked the question "Have I lost already?" if I was intent on continuing to fight. I also think the question isn't worthy of being answered because it's nothing more than alarmist at this point and advances a defeatist attitude. If you're worried, get your ass out there and make a difference. Donate. Call your friends and make sure they vote for Kerry. Don't sit here and cry "woe is me".
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
65. My last try to be reasonable with you.
If you can't conduct a rational conversation, then you're off my "respond to" list.

You have misrepresented my position here, and now you're accusing me of crying "woe is me." You have distorted, warped and misconstrued everything I have said in order to paint me as saying something I am not saying.

And you have refused consistently to answer the fucking question.

I think it's because you aren't capable of answering the question. You know how to slam, but you don't know how to think.

By the way, want to compare donations? Work? DU posts? Involvement? Experience? War records? You name it.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Actually, I did answer the fucking question.
Maybe you just can't read. I said there isn't a reason to be that pessimistic because the polls don't indicate who is going to come out to vote.

And no, I'm quite comfortable with all of the work I've done. I don't need to get into a pissing contest with someone that obviously doesn't understand the process.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. Oh I hear you, and I'm not dreaming
What we as people and a party need to do is fight, long, hard and dirty. Our opponents are prepared, and are in fact, doing the same. Yet the DNC/DLC is once again exhibiting all the fight it showed during the recount process, ie none.

Bushco has scored with the Swift Boats bull. Well, since they brought the military record issue into play, it is time that we brought up AWOL's service, and lack thereof. Since the 'Pugs have gone negative at the RNC, and feeding red meat to their faithful, then we damn sure need to do the same. How come a self described far leftist and sometime Green, Michael Moore, is the only prominent Dem out there making noise at the RNC? I know that there are hundreds of thousands of demonstrators at the RNC, and I thank them for their good works, but damnit, we need to have more high profile, sound bite ready prominent Dems at the RNC.

Here in Missouri, a vital battleground state, Bush is starting to regain his lead. Rumor around the local Dem headquarters, rumor now playing on the local evening newscasts, is that Kerry is ready to concede Missouri to Bush:wtf: C'mon people it is only a matter of a couple of percentage points, now is not the time for concessions. It seems to me that the DNC/DLC leadership is preparing to cave once again, just like they did in '00. If this becomes a serious possibility, then it will be time to wrest the party control from the worthless DNC/DLC leadership and put the party firmly back into the hands of the people. These supposed leaders have done more harm to our party than any other group in the history of the Democratic party, and if we allow them to continue to roll over at the slightest sign of opposition, then we can kiss the Democratic party goodbye.

I'm a Dem who has gone Green. I am caucasing with the Democratic party for the greater good of this country and our future. I have thrown my efforts and monetary support behind Kerry. But if the DNC/DLC throws this election to the 'Pugs again this year, then you can kiss my support, and the support of millions like me goodbye. We are compromising a portion of our conscience to support someone whom we consider to be a seriously flawed candidate in order to remove Bush. In return we expect, neigh, demand that Kerry and the Democratic leadership fight like hell for the future of our country, for indeed the well being of our country depends on it. If Kerry and his croneys in the DNC/DLC roll over this year, you will never see this kind of coalition again, for our trust will have been broken, and we will set out to take back our country on our own, leaving the once proud Democratic party to fade into history. I and millions of others are doing their part to win this election, it is time for the leadership of the party to step up and do their part.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. Let them have their 9/11 love fest....looks like they are glad that 9/11
happened. They are showing that after 3 1/2 years as the President, the only thing Bush has "accomplished" is that he was President when we were attacked on September 11. That is it.

9/11 ... terror ... fear ... 9/11 ... terror ... fear ... 9/11 ... terror ... fear ... 9/11 ... terror ... 9/11 ... terror ... fear ...

They can't talk about the economy, poverty, outsourcing, the environment, health care, our standing in the world. Bush and his Administration have wrecked this country. Nothing positive accomplished in all that time.


They only choice they have is to politicize these horrible attacks to scare people into voting for them.

Democrats need to point that out whenever they speak publicly.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. If this were chess . . .
If this were chess, it would be no time for Kerry and his people to be making quiet waiting moves.
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. You are watching too much cable!
Don't worry. It's only august. If you are not feeling good after the debates then you should be worried.

It's wise for Kerry to sit back for a couple of days and let Bush (and his gang) get over confident and start saying some dumb shit.

I hope Kerry/Edwards press more on the fact that Bush thinks we cannot win the war on terrorism and explain to Americans why Bush is wrong. They should run that as a mantra. They HAVE to attack the obvious which is Bush's lack of leadership skills.


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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Nope. Haven't watched any at all. Just reading.
And what I read says JK has slipped in critical areas in a race where there are precious few undecideds.

So I'm asking: What should we do to get it back?
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3trievers Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
46. I concur
The smearboat lies have worked and will continue to succeed keeping Kerry on the defensive.In Ontario the conservatives were tied with the liberals and then the liberals went negative scaring the Sh*t out of the electorate thus turning the election.
Negative ads work wonderfully in spite of the polls showing they do not as people always consider their candidates ads as informative and their opponents negative.
Bush will win the debates because the media will say he beat expectations.They have already set the stage by referring to Kerrys defeat of Weld in the last senatorial debate.
The political graveyard is filled with Mr nice guy also-rans .The Rove smear team are world class and play to win with a nothing is too nasty attitude.
Their attacks will not end with the smear boat liars but the campaign will be a constant barrage of twisted facts,distortions and outright lies.Kerrys team needs to deliver some high inside heat.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
27. It's just to be expected. We had our time, this is theirs.
After this it's going to be bad economic news and 1,000 dead American soldiers. It'll swing back our way, but it's still going to be really close.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. But the key stat is the one on handling terrorism.
How do we reverse the huge drop in that one?
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. I guess you .
haven't been reading my posts.

Read my sig line.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. How does your sig line answer the question?
I'm asking a serious question. What do we do to reverse that stat?

There are damn few undecideds. The convention gave us a chance to play up JK's war record and position him as a potential war time leader. Now that's been sullied severely, and our initial advantage has been lost.

So what do we do now to restore the lustre or to drive up Bush's WOT negatives?
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Efilroft Sul Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Repubs unleash their inner troglodytes, and Dems...
...must unleash their inner Bartcop.

I was watching MSNBC last night, and for once, I must agree with Howard the Duck Fineman. He said that the Dems were lured into not making the DNC a Bush-bashing fest so as to not turn off anyone, namely swing voters. Now that the RNC is underway, the Republicans have no compunction whatsoever to unleash their wrath on Kerry. Their attacks, according to Fineman, will appeal to the swing voters. And I'm afraid he has a point.

The Swift Boat ads went unanswered for too long by Kerry. Many of you here on DU think Kerry is playing some grandmaster at chess, luring Bush and the Republicans into a trap. But I have this to say: You're wrong. The ads worked, and Bush regained momentum leading up to the RNC. And what did the Kerry team do? It basically asked Bush to condemn the ads. Max Cleland at the gates of the pig farm means something only to us, but not the rest of America.

You want power? You don't ask. You go out there and you do what it takes to get the power.

You want Kerry to win? You've got to get in the mudpit. You've got to fight. We've got to damage the Bush gang with all the truth we have -- and there's a lot of it. Fight, damn it. And don't just fight to win -- you must fight to give the Republicans a humiliation they'll never recover from. The only thing nice we should do for these dogs from here on out is to provide a baggy for their teef after we knock them out.

The high road can be taken after Bush's concession speech. Until then, give your sense of fairness a two-month vacation.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Totally agreed. nt
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Only problem: the commentators screamed anytime we went slightly negative
The media is so much of the problem. It's one element, one very BIG element, that we can do little about. There was no criticism from the commentators about Dem bashing last night. We're held to a double standard. It's difficult, it's depressing --

I hear where merlin is coming from.

And I applaud your call for our finding our "inner Bartcop."
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. Thanks for this. I'm not going to stop fighting, but I have to tell you
I think precious time is ebbing AWAY. I'm getting to HATE this "gotta take the high road" stuff. It's a worthwhile question - how do we get it back? Anybody notice the numbers right now don't look as good as they did. And we've got a scant two months to go.
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
56. That's the kind of talk I like to hear!
I'm sick of hearing people say that we have to take the high road and be mr. nice guy and play fair. I'm going out right now to pick up voter registration forms. I want the Dems to start fighting. Start demanding equal time on the cable shows to rebut the lies of this republican concoction! I want negative ads attacking bush* on 24/7! Attack! Attack! Attack! :mad:
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #39
58. This militarized electorate votes for a fighter, not a lover.
Edited on Tue Aug-31-04 11:10 AM by JohnOneillsMemory
Kerry better kick * repeatedly in the scrotum or be Dukakis'ed DESPITE his Vietnam record which has been successfully muddled by the neo-con scrotum kickers with fucking bandaids and flip-flops. The Repubs win the KEEP-IT-SIMPLE-FOR-THE-SIMPLETONS Award in this election hands down and Kerry had better follow suit or plan his retirement and the end of the American middle class.

People vote on personality and identity, not issues. A fighting bastard is who TV Nation wants to defend them against the hordes of anti-American Freedom Hating boogeymen.

Unfortunately, people WANT to be told what to do. My history professor mother teaches her students that in times of crisis people turn to dictators for security. She teaches ancient Roman Empire and keeps reading about it in today's newspaper!

Hitler wrote this in Mein Kampf and history confirms it:

"The masses of the people prefer the ruler to the suppliant and are filled with a stronger sense of mental security by a teaching that brooks no rival than by a teaching which offers them a liberal choice. They have very little idea of how to make such a choice and thus are prone to feel abandoned. Whereas they feel very little shame at being terrorized intellectually and are scarcely conscious of the fact that their freedom as human beings is impudently abused...physical intimidation has its significance for the mass as well as the individual...For the successes which are thus obtained are taken by the adherents as a triumphant symbol of the righteousness of their own cause; while the beaten opponent very often loses faith in the effectiveness of any further resistance."-Adolph Hitler, 'Mein Kampf'


This country has been propagandized into a permanent war mentality ever since Pearl Harbor. That's why mere muscles on Ahnuld got him the governorship of the world's 5th largest economy. Jesse Ventura got the same reward for the same reason, testosterone.

Read George Lakoff's research on Moral Politics with the family as model for everything: choosing either Strong Father Republicans or Nurturing Mother Democrats.
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml

Fearful Sheeple still want Dad to run the world, not Mom.
That's why the number of people killed is still the leading indicator of quality of life in America instead of the number of healthy children.

It's easier to destroy than create.
Male evolution has a long way to go to catch up with women.
And we may kill the planet first.

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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #39
64. Agreed. Except... what's the plan?
We can't just get in the mudpit without a workable plan to retake the lead. In my view that means we have got to dirty up GWB. We've got to destroy his reputation as a tough guy. How do we do it?

What message do we use to do it ?
What media do we use to do it ?

(Then of course the big question will be: how do we get the campaign to listen. But if we're right enough, that will follow.)
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. BY HAMMERING HOME
Edited on Tue Aug-31-04 09:41 AM by BullGooseLoony
THAT ATTACKING IRAQ ***FUCKED UP*** THE WAR ON TERROR.

It was BUSH'S call to invade Iraq. He did, and we diverted important resources, destroyed our credibility, gave the terrorists an effective rallying call and soiled our good name.

Goddammit. Kerry and Edwards just aren't in the position to be saying this, but it's the only thing that will win the election for us.

On edit: I'm sorry about the caps, but I'm getting really frustrated because I keep saying this over and over, but no one seems to be listening.

Mind you, this isn't one of those gimmicky "Kerry should say this line" ideas that you can take or leave. This is a strategy, the winning approach. This IS the way to win.

And it only makes it that much worse for me to know WHY, basically, Kerry and Edwards aren't using this. They just can't!
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ItsMyParty Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. Yes they can use part of it
They can point to how badly Bush fucked up Iraq that is breeding so much hatred. He had no plan to secure the place. He did not take allies with us, etc. so the insurgents feel they have a real shot at us, etc. He can talk about how our idea of order in Fallujah is a 'Saddam goon'. He can talk about how we have such a mess going now with Sadr that he outfoxed us, will be part of the political scene that will have as it's major plank getting the US out of Iraq, etc. One doesn't have to attack the 'idea' of going to Iraq. One can attack how incompetent these assholes were to lead the invasion. Kerry knows that---but his pattycake team doesn't want to fight.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. They just need to run that Richard Clarke soundbyte over and over
It's the best thing that they can do.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #40
62. THANK YOU FOR THE FIRST ACTUAL ANSWER to the question!
And it's a good answer.

But within your answer is the question: how do we get this done. So let's focus on that.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
43. Back on top big time? What the hell are you smoking?
Republicans are cheering Bush at their own convention. What do you expect?
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
66. Try reading the polls.
Remember the polls?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
47. Raise the Terror Alert!
Oh.. Wait, that's the other guys.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
48. Merlin is no wimp.
Edited on Tue Aug-31-04 10:22 AM by Armstead
And he's a longtime DUer. I know he's no wimp because of past scrapes he and I have had. ;-)

He's raising a key point. We are not responding fast and strong to all of the bullshit the GOP and media are tossing out. This sets the underlying dynamic against us. If Kerry waits too long to come out swinging, it could be too late, because the image the GOP wants to paint will be set in stone.

The whole Kerry/Democratic apparatus needs to swing back as fast and furious as the GOP is. So far it hasn't been.

IMO the biggest problem is that Rove has put us on defense. Kerry is going to spend the whole campaign defending himself agaist their charges rather than portraying what he wants to express.

The GOP is going after his Senate record next. Kerry should alreadyu be talking about his record, instead of waiting until the GOP defines it.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #48
60. Thanks, Armstead. Your points are right on.
Did we ever fight?
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. We've had some "lively disagreements" over free trade
I wouldn't call them fights. Just DU style debate. :)

In this case, though, I'm in total agreement. I really dread the possibility that in late November our side might be wallowing in "would, shoulda,coulda" because we failed to take charge and correct course now while we still have a chance.

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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
50. Rather than flaming, I'll just ask, "do you think this is helpful?"
The Republican party pays people to sow despair and alienation on Democratic message boards, so why do the same work for free? What good comes of it? (I am not questioning your motives, only your method)

For a fairly objective factual overview of where we are, please check out this outstanding entry:

http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyrising/
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #50
61. How 'bout if YOU check out the current polling results.
And then add to that the several point bounce Shrubby will get from the RNC.

Then please tell me how we get past that. That's the question. How about some answers.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
51. Don't worry--Shrub will get his Convention bounce
15-20 points for sure, don't you think? (wink)

Stop watching TV. THAT is the enemy.
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liberal_in_GA Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
53. ABCnews interested in story on Bush's dirty push-pollers—help!
Hi--
I'm brand new here, but I lurk frequently on the Salon.com table talk forums. There was a post on the Kerry '04 thread yesterday about someone in the DU forums receiving a call from a Bush push poller who finished the conversation by asking about Kerry's cancer. After the dirty push polling used in the South Carolina primary in 2000 (when Bush's henchmen exploited racial prejudices regarding McCain's daughter) I really think this could backfire on Bush. I took the liberty of writing to several news organizations about the cancer question, and just got an email back from ABC news:

Thank you for writing. Can you offer any contact information for this person, and
tell me where she/he lives, etc.? Any details are necessarry so we can report on
this.
Thank you.
Lisa Todorovich
ABC News

If you know who got this phone call or have any info about it, please write to me: karenabb@earthlink.net, or to Ms. Todorovich: Lisa.M.Todorovich@abc.com . I posted this on another thread too, since I'm too new to start my own topic. Maybe we can finally get the media to scrutinize Bush's dirty campaign tactics.
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Pupper78 Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
54. NOT slipping Away
Let the Pubbies make their noise this week. It's their time to get their message out and to get media coverage.

Kerry's campaign is running the shrewdest PR / media strategy that we've seen from a Democratic candidate. It would be a waste of resources to respond point for point against every happening (i.e. the purple heart bandaids) at the RNC.

Kerry's campaign will blitz the media post-RNC.

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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
55. We worriers aren't welcome here - gotta "think positive" , by golly!
Norman Vincent Peale - where are you when we really need you??
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Yup
I'm just gonna take a pill chill out and put my head back in the sand.
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DHC Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. Be worried. Be very worried.
I'm brand new here--somehow just heard about this site yesterday. At any rate, from my perspective, Merlin is right.

I live near the ME/NH border in a leftish resort area that 2 months ago seemed to be Kerry's to lose. And, although I'm not quitting--indeed, have barely begun to fight in my small local way--it feels like we've lost it. Suddenly, things have changed--and I don't think it was the SVet ads so much as Kerry's response to them. Or perhaps it was some indefinable other, but almost overnight, it's like the folks around here just shrugged and resigned themselves to Bush! "Ah, he's not so bad. Better the devil you know. He's decisive." Etc., etc,. ad nauseum.

Who knows? Maybe it's better to battle as the underdog, but I've looked at the poll internals from the battleground states too--and have the sense that it's going to be all uphill--and maybe very steep--from here on out. Not impossible--ever!--but not easy. But to those of you encouraging Kerry to get down and dirty, I think that wd be a huge mistake. You don't play in the slop with pigs, who, after all, prefer it there. War Hero and Mr. Thoughtful are also big losers. Kerry needs to be absolutely future-oriented from here on out--should put together 4 or 5 simple cogent specifics he would promise to do in his first 100 days--kind of like a Kerry Contract With America, if you'll pardon the expression.
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