WALT STARR (or anyone who is well-versed in his research:

[chiburb]

Eric Zorn got this email, probably from a Freeper, and would like to know how to reply. Any help here?

Eric,

Your "source", Walt Starr, on the Medalgate piece, has admitted that Bush's unit received the Outstanding Unit Award in 1966. Bush WAS authorized to wear that ribbon. Shame on you for running with that DemocraticUnderground tripe.

You call yourself a journalist? Ever hear of basic research?

[Walt Starr]

1. Yes, the unit got the award in 1966

No, we have no verification he was authorized to wear the ribbon. Temporary Wear is an issue that is out there, but to this day the Air Force maintains that it was never allowed.

I have a request in with the National Archives for the appropriate manuals.

[Hepburn]

2. That is not what I understand from the email Walt got from the AF.

No, the Air Force regs and the Army regs are different as to this issue. As I understand it, Walt received a email from the AF saying that this was NOT allowed. I cannot find a link to the email which he received from them, but maybe someone who has their bookmarks better organized than I do can help you with this.

[Walt Starr]

5. Yep, THREE SEPERATE TIMES

Here they all are:

Walter Starr, below is your initial request, and resolution. If the resolution is not sufficient please e-mail us at mailto:[e-mail] or the POC below. Include your ticket number. You can also submit an update to your original request by logging into https://webcolab.afpc.randolph.af.mil/Scripts/rightnowdb.cfg/php.exe/enduser/home.php

Problem : A couple of questions about the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award
Problem Details : Hi, I have a couple of questions about the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award.

1) Has the AFOUA ever been authorized for temporary wear? The Army has many Unit Awards that, when you transfer into a unit, the award is worn temporarily, and then removed upon leaving said unit. Is this a practice of the Air Force or has it ever been a practice of the Air Force?


2) I have no access to the Air Force Pamphlet 900-2. I have found that the 147th FIG (now the 147th FIW) received a first award of the AFOUA in 1966 and a third, I believe, in 1982. Could you give me the dates of all AFOUA awards the 147th Fighter Intercept Wing has been awarded in its illustrious history?


Thank you so much!
Resolution : Mr. Starr,
IAW AF Instruction 36-2803, THE AIR FORCE AWARDS AND DECORATIONS PROGRAM

All assigned or attached people who served with a unit during a period for which a unit award was awarded are authorized the appropriate ribbon if they directly contributed to the mission and accomplishments of the unit.


Additionally, there isn't a "temporary" wear of AF Outstanding Unit Awards for AF personel. Unfortunately, we do not have access to 900-2 however, if you request verification of entitlement of award of the AFOUA while assigned to a specific unit from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, they can research the data for you. Please send your request to the below address and include a copy of your DD Fm 214 showing proof of service. They'll be able to provide a one time issue of the award upon verification.



Resolution Details : The address:

NPRC
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Ave
ST. Louis MO 63132-5100

Number 2:

Walter Starr, below is your initial request, and resolution. If the resolution is not sufficient please e-mail us at mailto:[e-mail] or the POC below. Include your ticket number. You can also submit an update to your original request by logging into https://webcolab.afpc.randolph.af.mil/Scripts/rightnowdb.cfg/php.exe/enduser/home.php

Problem : Was the AFOUA Authorized for temporary wear?
Problem Details : Was the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award ever authorized for temporary wear under AR 35-10 during the late 1960's to mid 1970's?

Resolution : The AFOUA is not a temporary award.
Resolution Details :
Contact Center Agent: : Ms. Jacqueline Holland
Agents Email Address: : mailto:[e-mail]
Agents Phone Number: : Toll Free 1-800-616-3775; or DSN 665-5000

And number three:

Walter Starr, below is your initial request, and resolution. If the resolution is not sufficient please e-mail us at mailto:[e-mail] or the POC below. Include your ticket number. You can also submit an update to your original request by logging into https://webcolab.afpc.randolph.af.mil/Scripts/rightnowdb.cfg/php.exe/enduser/home.php

Problem : The AFOUA is not currently an award authorized for temporary wear
Problem Details : What I have is a photograph of a person who was wearing the AFOUA, however, there is no mention of this award on discharge papers nor was his unit awarded the AFOUA while he was in service from 1968 until 1973. I have not yet verified, but I have it anecdotally that his unit was awarded the AFOUA the year before he joined the unit. What I am looking for is verification that under AFR 35-10 (the regulations in effect at the time) he was eligible to wear the AFOUA while attached the the unit, then would have to remove the award from his uniform when no longer a part of that unit. This is a practice with unit awards to this day in the Army. Since the Air Force traces its lineage to the Army, I am just checking on the official status of the practice within the Air Force at the time.


Was the AFOUA authorized for Temproary wear under AFR 35-10 in the late 1960's to the mid 1970's?
Resolution : Mr Starr, The Air force does not have any procedures for temporary wear of the AFOUA. If you were not apart of the unit when the award was issued then the person is not authorized wear if it.

Resolution Details :
Contact Center Agent: : Ms Terri Vineyard
Agents Email Address: : mailto:[e-mail]
Agents Phone Number: : Toll Free 1-800-616-3775; or DSN 665-5000

My request for information from the Air Force History Support Organization regarding the manuals which cover the issue:

Dear Mr Starr:

The National Archives and Record Administration is the repository for all USAF administrative records, regulations, etc. You would need to send your inquiry in writing to:

NARA-Archives II
Textual Records Branch
8601 Adelphi Road
College Park, Maryland 20740-6001


Those are the only two AFOUAs that I have listed. You may wish to send your inquiry to the public affairs office of the National Guard Bureau in Texas.

[e-mail]

No word back yet from the National Archives and Records Administration, though a request has been submitted (twice) for a copy of AFM 900-3 and AFR 35-10 dated on or before November 7, 1970.

[XNASA]

3. Here's a link.

http://home.swbell.net/jekenn/bush_medals.html

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. Big threads

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=681285

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x684479

[H2O Man]

6. I'm curious:

Not simply about was Bush "authorized" to wear medals he didn't win, but are people on the republican side saying he actually earned those medals? I support Walt on the work he's doing, but I think it goes deeper than that. There's a manufactured controversy about Kerry and his medals. Were those medals Bush wore simply part of a manufactured soldier? Were they as manufactured as the "mission accomplished" scene? I'm sure that Bush was "authorized" to wear the uniform that day, but it struck me as ridiculous as if he were wearing a Power Rangers halloween costume.

[Rich Hunt]

7. excellent point

...probably the most important point in the whole thing.

[City Lights]

9. Not only that, what about the ribbon he didn't earn -

the one he should have won just for showing up?

[chiburb]

8. Thanks all, sent to Zorn...

Though I'm sure his emailer knows that from this thread...
Now I want to know where "they" found one that could spell.