Could Kerry have gotten into the national guard? What were his options for

[Bombtrack]

avoiding service. I'm debating with some dittohead's. I made them aware of the truth behind the lie that "It was only after he was denied what he really wanted which was a deferment, that he volunteered" which was that no request was given nor denial recieved.

Just wondering what his different options for not serving in Vietnam were.

[mark414]

1. kerry easily could've

gotten into the guard, he's known the kennedy's forever.

i don't know if you've ever seen the picture of him on the boat with JFK and RFK?

EDIT: this is a stupid website but it's got some of the pictures:

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/page2.html

[LoZoccolo]

2. Well, he could have just NOT VOLUNTEERED.

Their argument makes no sense.

[Bombtrack]

7. Well, he did go to the draft board and they said that he would probably

get drafted.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. So he didn't want to wait around and be drafted, he

preferred having some say in what he did. He enlisted in the Navy and subsequently volunteered to go to Viet Nam, requesting duty on a swift boat. I'd imagine that, aside from being a SEAL, the swift boat duty was the best chance for a Navy lieutenant, j.g., to see action. Sailors just don't get sent to the front lines, you know?!

Asking your draft board what would happen didn't mean you were not cooperating with the system.

Also, a lot of eligible guys were never drafted, especially after the lottery was begun. Bill Clinton had doubts about going and communicated them to his draft board. As I recall, he considered applying for conscientious objector status, but ultimately he just lucked out and drew a low number in the lottery.

RWers have tried to make a big deal out of Clinton's history but any young man who went to college and kept his grades up so that he was making progress toward a degree was eligible for a deferment. The whole idea was to defer your military service until you finished your education. Of course, Cheney made an art of getting deferments.

George W. Bush would have been drafted because of his lottery number so Poppy and Ben Barnes got him into TANG. That's an example of the unfairness of the system, of the privileged using National Guard duty to avoid combat. Bush* going AWOL and getting away with it is a further example of the abuses of the system.

So many lies! Tom DeLay claims he couldn't serve because all the slots in the military had been taken by minorities!

:crazy: :eyes:

[kskiska]

3. What I'd like to know

is if * joined the National Guard because he had a tremendous desire to fly planes, why didn't he just join the Air Force?

[A_Possum]

4. All of Kerry's friends at Yale volunteered

And 5 of them didn't come back. It was a group of men who made a conscious decision to serve their country. The first to be killed was Kerry's best friend, Richard Pershing, grandson of "Black Jack" Pershing. Kerry signed up in late 1965 for the U.S. Navy, with actual enlistment to come after graduation the following spring.

Besides, this is all nonsense. Ask them what point do they suppose they're trying to make, that Bush had better family connections for avoiding the draft? Suggest to them that they are making desperate fools of themselves to float "arguments" like this.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Canada isn't very far from Massachussetts.

A lot of courageous young men went to Canada. Many, even more courageous young men went to prison rather than kill people so LBJ could show he was "strong on defense" and a good anti-Communist.

Kerry volunteered despite the obvious illegality and immorality of the war. It is in his favor that he came back and denounced the war and I wish he would recapture the idealism that he had in the '70s.

I'm voting for him but not with pleasure or a great deal of confidence that he will win.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bombtrack]

9. Can you back up this statement? I've never heard that before

I'm not sure you're acurate on that one. Sorry if your low post count makes me somewhat aprehensive

[drhilarius]

11. Actually, many of the documents that support that assertion...

are here <http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html>.

Although, the point is he DID volunteer, Bush did not (and stated that specifically).

[Julien Sorel]

8. Grad school baby, grad school.

I know several people who owe their PhDs to an aversion to flying, hot lead.

[DemBones DemBones]

10. Yes, grad school deferments were still available when

Kerry graduated from Yale. They didn't end until 1968.