This is actually a big deal (re: Third Swift Liars ad)

[troublemaker]

Well-informed people will have trouble "getting" this ad the way it's intended because it's not aimed at well-informed people. It presumes the audience isn't paying a lot of attention to political ads and doesn't know much about Kerry; typical undecided voters. Most political TV ads are designed to be heard more than seen. (It’s hard to ignore the audio and news is often on in the background.) So to hear what this ad is really about, try listening to it while forgetting everything you know about Kerry's actual biography.

The narrative of the third SBVFT ad is this:

John Kerry was a POW in Vietnam, and he avoided torture by doing propaganda tapes for the enemy, in which he accused American soldiers of war crimes. The North Vietnamese tortured all the POWS to get them to make propaganda tapes, but they refused. Only John Kerry cracked. He betrayed America.

Really. That's what the ad says, insofar as that is the most straightforward narrative to explain the words uttered. That is what is communicated. (In case anyone's not getting the narrative, the audio of the Senate testimony is supposed to be heard as a North Vietnamese propaganda broadcast. You have to hear it as an undecided voter who doesn't know anything about Kerry's Senate Testimony or the specifics of his naval career.)

It's a clever ad because it's unrebutable. What can you say? The offensive message doesn't exist on the videotape, it is created in the listener's head. How does one counter something so perfectly insidious? I do get frustrated with the campaign, but I try to cut Kerry a lot of slack because there's no obvious right answer to something this subtle.

KERRY: "They personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads ..."
VOICE: The accusations that John Kerry made against the veterans who served in Vietnam were just devastating ... more than any physical wounds I had.
KERRY: "... randomly shot at civilians, cut off limbs, blown up bodies ..."
VOICE: That was part of the torture, that you had to sign a statement that you committed war crimes."
KERRY: "... razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan ..."
VOICE: John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and my comrades in the prison camps in North Vietnam took torture to avoid saying.
KERRY: "... crimes committed on a day-to-day basis ..."
VOICE: He betrayed us in the past. How could we be loyal to him now?
KERRY: "... ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam ..."
VOICE: He dishonored his country and, more importantly, the veterans he served with. He sold them out.

[wtmusic]

1. Kerry never actually made a tape for North Vietnam, did he?

:shrug:

[Trajan]

4. I believe they are IMPLYING he made propaganda tapes ...

by giving testimony before the Senate Committee ....

The same vile insinuations made without basis in fact ....

[wtmusic]

13. NASTY

these are some truly vile motherfuckers

[zoeb]

2. Doesn't matter...

Its old and trite. The Swift Boat Liars have been debunked and will no longer make the evening rounds on cable news...except for that one little channel...something about unfair and unbalanced. The rest of the time their ads get aired in a couple of states once or twice and that's it. Their little tug boat is out of steam and it's going down with O'Neil!

[demwing]

9. Why are you saying this?

Have you seen ANY drop off of SBV coverage?

I can't stand this kind of arrogance. I witnessed the exact same type of "who cares" attitude when the California recall went through. So many didn't believe it would happen, and when it did they thought that Arnold had zero chances. All this "oh please, who cares anymore?" attitude is disinformation in my book, dangerous disinformation.

[brentspeak]

10. I'm with you

Take nothing for granted in this election. I want Kerry to decisively stomp these lying malcontents into the ground. The sooner the better.
And that goes for any other smear or misrepresentation that the Bush people throw our way.

I don't understand the people who think we should just close our eyes and make a wish and hope it works out our way.

[A_Possum]

3. Huh? They're saying Kerry was a POW????

That seems pretty rebuttable to me.

Like, he WASN'T a POW. He wasn't captured. Even the smearvets are saying he was only there 4 mohths and got an early out.

Are you sure this isn't some kind of joke?

[troublemaker]

7. They are not SAYING anything. It's implied.

[A_Possum]

5. And by the way, here's the rebuttal...

The POW's didn't stay forever in Vietnam because Kerry had the guts to speak out and give the anti-war movement the support of a decorated and articulate veteran.

If not for guys like Kerry, the POW's would still be there.

[Vincardog]

8. I am glad he spoke up

Kerry volunteered and went to Nam TWICE. HE served and when he came back he told the truth about the immoral acts happening in our name in that illegal war. I am glad the truth came out and the War Machine was forced to listen to the majority of the American People and Stop the Madness that was US policy in Vietnam. Bush didn't want to go war in Viet Nam. He wants your children to go fight in the same senseless cause in Iraq now. We hav to stop this madness and throw out the GOP NOW.

[Old and In the Way]

12. Egg-zactly.

What is it that the Shit Boat Liars are saying? John Kerry helped end a war prematurely? We could have lost 3x, 4x, 10x more people if John Kerry had only kept quiet? We could have killed millions more Vietnamese if only those damn vets and war protestors hadn't turned public opinion against the war. Our POWs could still be getting bambooshoots up their fingernails if more people like us were in charge.

SBL is not just about John Kerry...it's a pre-emptive strike against people who know the Iraqi war is an immoral and unjust war being fought to protect the profits of Big Oil. These same people want to build another VietNam type memorial in 30 years celebrating the needless deaths of 50,000 more Americans.

[brentspeak]

6. Former POW Phil Butler disputes the SmearVets accusations

Found this off Google:

"Phil Butler, who spent eight years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam,
took issue with suggestions by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that
Kerry's antiwar protests caused the POWs to be treated badly. "I lived
with two of the POWs who are now in that group -- Mr. Courdier
and Mr. Gallanti -- and I am telling you, they are full of it.
We never heard a blooming thing about John Kerry while we were there,"
said Butler, who contacted the campaign months ago to support Kerry
and only recently heard back from Kerry's veterans coordinator, John
Hurley.

Butler said that while he was tortured and mistreated until 1969, by
the time Kerry was protesting the war and speaking before the Senate
Armed Services Committee in 1971, the POWs were better treated."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26519-2004Aug23.html

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. Oh my. I guess you killed this thread!

:thumbsup: