kerry is NOT a christian........(did you all know)

[seabeyond]

i picked up son from baptist school today. solemnly he told me that finally he had let some kids know he preferred kerry to bush and why. he was taking a survey, for math. and his question was who would you prefer, kerry or bush. this was a big step for him to say out loud to kids in class. i totally tell him walk it how he wants, i respect.

anyway so in learning more he said three of the five said kerry was not a christian...........and i explode, lol lol what no way, he is more christian than bush, he has been going to church for a life time, he walks the talk.

we were on our way to pick up boyscout uniforms in the boyscout store. i am breathing heaving walk in and immediately to the two women standing there, can you believe, can you BeliEve three kids would tell son kerry isnt a christian. what is that. what are these parents teaching there kids

was a trip.

just not feeling like my kids are going to make it thru a full semester of this school, lol lol

asked my son when we got home, when these kids told you that what was in your head. he said, i thought he may not be a christian, i wanted to tell them to quit judging and he could still be a good person, and he didnt have to be christian.

i like this boy

[noahmijo]

1. If elected Kerry will be the most Christian president we've had in 4 years

He won't deliberately seek to fuck over the down-trodden and he won't starts unecessary wars.

[fdr_hst_fan]

4. Not much of a "Christian" myself,

I nevertheless give you a hearty AMEN, brother!

[noahmijo]

16. That's okay I am Christian (Catholic) and I love you anyway

;)

[seabeyond]

17. ahhhh that is why a married catholic

and only two friends in town are catholic. you all are so sweet, may know we are going to hell cause we dont confess our sin thru priest, but ya love us, not hate us like the baptist

i am considered pagan at the school/church, and i think before this year they really were on a mission to convert me.

[noahmijo]

20. Pagans invented one of the best holidays: Halloween!

At least I think they did. I'm not sure oh well.

Yea that's how I am and I think most mainstream of most (if not all I don't know the culture of every religion out there) religions are like that at least out here, honestly I don't care if you worship goats or prefer the same sex, if you're a good guy or girl to be around hey that's all I care about! :)

[seabeyond]

26. our school doesnt do halloween either, tis satan holiday.

so i take in my halloweeen mug often thru out year and we have the best haloween house on the block, then embrace how much god must be in giggle at their fear of halloween. all the families getting together in love and laughter and dressing up to scare all those ghost and gobblins away, and treats of candy and play

yup. a really fearful time of the year

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Who gives a flying f*&k???

I am soooo sick of religion in US politics!

[seabeyond]

6. my point

but it is here. this is what reagan on brought us from the right. this is the battle. and this is the battle between isreal, middle east and us

we wouldnt be in htis mess if it was who gives a fuck religion shouldnt be in u.s. politics

that is a strong, yup.

but it is

[BlueEyedSon]

9. Retro vs. Metro.

Hope Metro wins!

[fdr_hst_fan]

13. I agree; this crap started back when

Ray-gun was president. And I never believed Billy Graham should have been conducting "Prayer Breakfasts" in the White House; I don't know WHICH knucklehead started that, but it should stop, or Graham should lose his tax-exempt status!
I've said for years: "TAX THE CHURCHES!"

[TaleWgnDg]

69. yup . . .

=================================
"As a Catholic, I have enormous respect for
the words and teachings of the Vatican, but
as a public servant I've never forgotten the
lasting legacy of President Kennedy, who
made clear that in accordance with the
separation of church and state no elected
official should be 'limited or conditioned
by any religious oath, ritual, or obligation.'
I represent all the people of Massachusetts,
and they expect me to speak with respect
for all of their views and values."
-- Senator John F. Kerry (2003)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_poli.htm

as opposed to:

"I, George W. Bush, Governor of Texas, do
hereby proclaim June 10, 2000, Jesus Day in
Texas and urge ... all Texans to answer the
call to serve those in need. By volunteering
their time, energy or resources to helping others,
adults and youngsters follow Christ's message
of love and service in thought and deed."
— GWBush, as Governor of TX, officially
proclaiming June 10, 2000, as
"JESUS DAY in TEXAS."
http://eskrae.tripod.com/bush_note.html
=================================

[enki23]

3. kerry's a catholic

to fundie brats, and their parents, catholics aren't christians.

[JohnKleeb]

7. that most certainly is true

and I am sick of it as a Catholic.

[seabeyond]

15. be mad you catholic you and tell your pope to leave me alone

too, lol lol. teasing. on your side

[JohnKleeb]

21. Hey now I disagree with him on some stuff too

heh its ok, I can understand why some of you guys have some issues with him because of choice and gay rights but the Catholic Church is a group you want on your side if you wanna fight poverty and hunger. I am mad at how the republican fundies treat us Catholics, they think we're not really Christian.

[seabeyond]

i agree. i was always around calif catholics

i do love the religion. i love all religions (the purity part, not man version). i am a part of none. and i do love my catholic people, they are truly fun and cool dudes.

[JohnKleeb]

25. Why I love em is that they wanna help end poverty and such

The problem with some Protestant faiths is they are like, do it yourself, Catholics think if you help people and do good works you go to heaven, many protestants think oh you just need to pray. I like the former better than the latter honestly. Another great thing about Catholics is that they are a diverse bunch, we got Irish Catholics like my nana and one time "Greek Catholics" like my Slovak other grandma.

[seabeyond]

29. mexicans bring a wonderful flavor to religion

yes

yes and it is this diversity that allows the progressiveness (generally just lately lacking just a tad, but you guys will get it back) catholics are already beyond this battle. more out of new testament than the old. that is basically the difference. baptist sit in the old testament, not really valueing the gift christ did give., purely only my opinion here

[noahmijo]

34. As a Latino Catholic I can say I agree

And so all the other races and cultures that share the religion.

:)

[JohnKleeb]

38. I thought you were Polish, or are you mixed?

yeah its great, its the most diverse one out there.

[noahmijo]

41. Yup I am mixed

And get AIM jerky, I gotta ream for your comments earlier today.

[JohnKleeb]

42. I gotta get something done on the computer so I cant be online now

Getting the sound fixed and my CD rom looked at in a bit, when I get that done I'll try to get back online, wait youre mad because I hate the NY Yankees, can ya blame me, :shrug: I am 50 miles south of Baltymore, and I am upset about 96.

[noahmijo]

45. hahahah okay you get a pass then

but you're still gonna be punished, just wait I'm gonna go refund the group "SPEEDO OWNERS AGAINST KLEEB FOR TRUTH"

[JohnKleeb]

50. I am online now btw

oh christ the speedos :scared:

[IronLionZion]

32. and Indian Catholics

like my family! :hi:

[seabeyond]

33. kul, see all you beautiful catholics

lol lol lol i knew you werent..........what do they call you all pawn of satan

[IronLionZion]

35. I don't understand how kind compassionate people are pawns of Satan

but mean hateful people are "good Christians". eh whatever... :P

[seabeyond]

39. outragous for me too, what i have learned to do

i look each and everyone in the eye and say, am i a christian. they have never challenged.

they talk rule law, i ask, mans or gods cause i have no problem with following gods law, have a tough time with mans, and not going to let man mess it up for me.

call them on george's christianity, and not one has yet to challenge me on that either

[JohnKleeb]

40. because they're jealous of us

look at us three, indy is Indian, noah is Latino, and I have Irish, German, Slovak, and Slovene blood, and we're all Catholic, thats the power of the Catholic faith, its so diverse and proud, now the southern baptists heh god bless their fine fine souls but I've yet to meet a fundy with simliar ethnic persuasion to us. They're also jealous of us too, like we like Mary, they only wish they could honor Mary the way we do, they want the communion wine and wafers :D, and no one oogles fundie schoolgirls do they but Catholic schoolgirls are beloved by all :). Some teasing in this but I am quite serious, we're a diverse faith, a faith who though some what socially conservative is also socially conscious. My political infleunces are devout Catholics.

[JohnKleeb]

37. wow we have those too

I was thinking of my immediate family sorry about that. Really, there has to be a reason why Catholics are the leading domation, we're so damn diverse, its awesome.

[seabeyond]

8. tell boys your father is a catholic

though non practicing, wink, and our friend martha, and our friend annette......and andy and collin, ahhhhhhmmmm i am gonna tell them they arent christian. and both those families, voting bush.......have had many conversations with both women the last 6 months

[iwantmycountryback]

43. Isn't he part Jewish too? n/t

[JohnKleeb]

44. yes

50% I believe because I believe his paternal grandmother was too, so Jon Stewart was wrong, hes not 25%, hes 50%.

[seabeyond]

48. this is true this is true, lol i forgot

bah ha ha. what a mix catholic and jew, lol bet the fundies are having issue. oh lord, i forgot, as i work in battle with this group

good thing i am all inclusive opposed to their proudly exclusive.

hm

[JohnKleeb]

51. yeah Jerry Corsi is being a prick about this

co-author of unfit for campaign.

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. According to some right wing Baptists, NO Catholics are Christians

Believe it or not, some right wing Protestants actually consider Catholics to be polytheist apostate heathens because they pray to Mary and the saints and use the Priesthood as a middleman between sinners and God.

[seabeyond]

11. instead of using pat falwell, or jerry robertson

oh so confused, wink. teasing

[bobbieinok]

56. look at a fundamentalist map of the world....areas that are christian +

those not

all predominantly catholic countries (eg, france) are shown as 'non-christian

[oasis]

10. "Eric Rudolph and Randy Weaver are good Christians." That's what

some of these same Baptist people would say.

[seabeyond]

12. or george bush

go figure

anyway, off chest i feel better

[A_Possum]

14. The Southern Baptist Conference

is making a serious effort to do some things that I find unconscionable and unpatriotic, in terms of forcing their religion into and onto government and law. It is a defined, highly organized effort at the highest levels of the organization, not just bible-thumping talk.

You may not want your son in that school.

My 14-yr-old nef is stuck in a situation like this by his brainless fundie mother. He is actually a thoughtful and alert kid who figured out all on his own that he supported Kerry, but he tells me that if he speaks up in his school, he'll get beaten up.

So we talk a lot about how this is NOT what American is about, intimidation over your political beliefs. He's living what the beginning of the Nazi era felt like.

[seabeyond]

22. i agree a possum

and thank you for the post. i saw especially last year, around spring things take a huge shift. i was listening to the top dudes of southern baptist, tell your sheep jesus will know how you vote. and he will call up this election when you face him. then passion comes out. then bush goes to change constitution. i went to the school in such a tizzy,........told teacher, i dont condition my boys and there is no way i am going to allow you or priciple or anyone else do to my boys

i tried so hard from spring on to get them out. but public school rejected us, too full. next year they will have built another school. just have to make it thru one more year

wasnt like this when i first started the kids 6 years ago. watched them develop into this........monster

i do drive in with my kerry sticker on my bumper twice a day though

[A_Possum]

23. Public school was TOO FULL to take your sons???

What the heck are you paying taxes for, if your PUBLIC schools are too crowded to even let your kids in?

OMG, this has gone beyond belief.

[seabeyond]

30. hey, i am in TEXAS, bushie boy f* up the school system

havent you heard, lol lol.

[Bucky]

46. I'm a teacher and thanks to Bush we have many great teachers in Texas

Because he's so screwed up the economy, lots of people have taken crappy paying teaching positions for the job security. A down economy always helps a few curious souls find a career in education. God bless Adam Smith.

[Riptide]

59. Public schools can not reject you. If you live in the district, they have

to allow your children to attend school there. I think you need to make some calls. Are you trying to go to a different school district than where you live? Public schools can NOT tell someone, "Oh, sorry, we're too full. Good luck with all that"

[seabeyond]

68. yes you are right, the school was in my district a couple years ago

it is a new school well funded. the school that is now in my district is a really poor school, gets low grades on tasc? test and i can go where ever i want. this new school is full, building a middle school and upper grades are sittin in it til other school done. should be able to get in next year

i am not too worried if i get kicked out of private. will send kids to the other school. i am almost seeing even though not touted as a very high academic school it still is worth it. i can also do the filler education at home

[cvoogt]

27. Ten commandments

So let's see how many of the commandments our fundie prez violated:

1. "Thou shalt not kill." OK, so in war people die, especially the enemy. As Commander-in-Chief he is directly responsible for the completely unnecessary deaths of 10000 Iraqi civilians and 1000 Americans serving in Iraq. And they are dying for a lie. Which brings me to the next commandment:

2. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

And:

3. "Thou shalt not steal." Bush "stole" the election and then stole Iraq's sovereignty and access to its oil, if not the oil itself.

And:

4. "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." So * is not too interested in Iraq's ox revenues, but I know another resource starting with "o."

I'm sure we could add a few others, like not taking the Lord's name in vain, but then the list would get too long. Maybe we should suggest posting the 10 commandments in the WH until November. I'm sure Kerry doesn't need to be reminded not to kill, but * could use constant reminders that the casualty statistics are REAL lives, of my American and Dutch cousins (both of which are fighting in Iraq now), not statistics. This could have a potent effect since * can't think for himself. Kerry is pensive and wouldn't need the reminders. His moral compass comes standard but *'s is an add-on.

[MsUnderstood]

18. There is a difference

Kerry is Christian
Bush thinks he is Christ, the son of god who can do no wrong and must lead the people into the apocolypse

Which do you want to lead the country?

[skygazer]

19. I long for the day

We elect a black atheist lesbian president and can stop fixating on senseless minutiae.

[drdigi420]

24. I WISH he wasn't a christian

christians have been fucking up this country for too long

[JohnKleeb]

28. why?

Christians also have done a lot of good too, FDR was one, JFK, Jimmy Carter especially. Someone isnt good because they are Christian or vice versa, remember Ayn Rand was an athiest and had terrible views. BTW his religious philosophy is totally different from Bush's, he may be Christian like Bush but thats where the simliarity ends.

[Sugarbleus]

31. Hmm, I've noticed that Kerry and Theresa use a LOT of

yoga/Buddhist gestures: slight bowing of the head while using the "folded" hands at head then body. Someone in here was explaing yoga/Buddhist movements to me the other day...a very beautiful and gentle practice

Fundies might find that disturbing as they believe their way is the only way to spiritual enlightenment.

My $.02

[seabeyond]

36. cool for you for noticing

this is when i really started embracing teresa, fell in love with her. her hand language, it is a language all and of itself, the energies in hand are powerful. a couple years ago i went beyond religion, into the spiritual and the movement of hand with my body, oh wonderful stuff. loved seeing this with teresa. notice with kerry to. the moving in, the head third eye to third eye, (i know this one is odd, but the littlest of children naturally do this, a way of communicating in purist of form)

cool

thanks for sharing

[stray cat]

47. I prefer Kerry's Christianity to Bush's

Its strange our president makes such a big deal out of his christian faith but doesn't practice any practical aspect of it. The book of James says it best: "Show me you faith apart from your works and I by my works will show you my faith. Faith without works is dead". What has president Bush ever done for the less fortunate or anyone besides himself? Case closed.

[Rictexas]

49. Where did this get started?

I've been a Southern Baptist my entire life (43 years), and not once have I ever heard anyone say that that Catholics were not Christian. Not in any Sunday school lesson, sermon or prayer group have I ever heard this, not even so much as an off handed remark.

I've belonged to SBC churches in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, California, and Illinois, and I've never heard that before. I was was always taught in the Baptist church, that all Christian faiths were our brothers/sisters in Christ. There are plenty of Baptists married to Catholics, my first wife was Catholic. The idea that Catholics are not Christian is absurd, and certainly didn't come out of any Southern Baptist church that I ever belonged to.

I really wish Southern Baptists would not get bashed so much on DU, without Southern Baptists, the Democratic party hasn't won a Presidential election in the last 28 years without one at the top of the ticket.

[JPJones]

52. Is the SB Theological Seminary good enough?

Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., said recently on CNN's Larry King Show: I believe the Roman Church is a false church and teaches a false gospel. ... Indeed, I believe the pope himself holds a false and unbiblical office."

http://www.worthynews.com/news-features/southern-baptists-catholic-2.html

[seabeyond]

53. my suggestion rictexas grab hold of your religion you love

and dont let a small group take it over, just as we dont want a small group in this nation take over the whole world

i am saying, when i first started this school, it was much more gentle. bush has pumped them up. robertson and jones and others have shifted the religion. i concur that the baptist have not in the past been so very exclusive but they are becoming now. and it is the brainwashing of bushco, imo. this war, 9/11, battle with muslim has brought the aggressive and battle with gays, and geez just liberals.

think of the black southern baptist churches. they are very welcoming and so full of grace and love. i love their church and their spirit and i dont believe they are allowing this to happen to them, most of them anyway

[seabeyond]

54. and i am not trying to bash your religion

i respect people and their faiths, whatever it is. if it allows them to feel/be of god, good stuff. i am just having a challenging time in boys school right now and that was a hard one this afternoon.

have also been told only republicans can be christians. and a child last year told me the children in public school are ungodly kids.

go figure, i am not making it up

[DemBones DemBones]

55. Don't know how you've missed it. Several years ago,

Alabama's Southern Baptists decided to convert all the non-Christians in the state, and they gave a specific number of non-Christians whose souls they intended to save, which someone quickly figured out was the population of Alabama minus the number of Baptists in Alabama! We heard all about it in Georgia, though we Catholics probably noticed it more than some, knowing that many Protestants think we're not "saved."

I read something by Marvin Olafsky (inventor of "compassionate conservatism") in which he opined that he and George W. Bush, both having been big-time sinners before being "born again" are somehow better than "once-born" John Kerry, who, as far as I know, was never a big-time sinner. So it's better to be a sinner and reform when you're 40 than just to do the right things all through life? Does not compute.

:crazy:

[polmaven]

57. Now, see?

I have had the exact opposite experience!

It was a very long time ago, for sure...1958 to be exact, and Vatican II has changed much of the bias that was directed toward me.

I am a Methodist...(It was before we became United Methodists). I was 8 years old, and was walking home from school with a school chum who lived down the street, and she told me that her parents would not let her be my friend anymore, because I am not Catholic and was, therefore, not going to be able to get into Heaven.

I was totally devastated, and cried for the entire weekend.

Of course, things are different now, in large part. I still am fully aware, though, that I am not welcome to receive the Sacrament in most of the Catholic churches in this area.

I'm quite sure most of the Catholic parishioners around here do NOT consider we Protestants to unworthy of God (anymore), but I think a lot of the clergy do.

I'm glad we all here at DU are way past that kind of thinking. Good is good, bad is bad, and we know the difference.:loveya:

[seabeyond]

58. we are still going to hell though

cause we dont confess our sin thru a priest

all the religions do an exclusive in some way that is the holding on to the soul in order to grow their religion. ergo, no birth control, was for the purpose of growing church revenue.

one can still love and embrace their religion. this gets to be the tricky though and why i dont do religion. gonna have to see when a rule is made of man and not god,

i use to sit at home on the weekends playing games with mom. catholic friend would go play around, do everything but intercourse still a virgin, drink ect adn tell me i was going ot hell. ya right grinnin

still love em

never had a parent be as bad as the one that would deny you your friend though.

[JohnKleeb]

60. nah y'all arent going to hell

I admit Catholics can be just as bad as Protestants in excluding people but in my experience Protestants are far worse, btw I dont hate Protestants but as a more eastern catholic, I identify with the Orthodox Christians more so than I do with protestants, after all my Ukrainian uncle was Orthodox. Sorry that experience happened but I would let my kids play with any kid regardless of faith.

[polmaven]

65. I know there are some

Protestants that engage in exclusionary behavior. I think this whole question is why I am so happy to be a United Methodist.

I know, I know...But UMs, most of us anyway, are not like him. We don't believe we are God, Jesus, or even Judas, for that matter.

Each UM church has a core set of "rules", if you will, but we also have a great amount of free choice within that Book of Discipline.

As far as Communion, one need not be a member of our church, or any church...you just need to want to share in the Sacrament.

My own individual church voted years ago to be a "reconciling congregation", which made a statement that ALL are welcome, for who they are, regardless of sexual orientation, and they will be embraced for who they are.

My pastor is female, married to a man who is also a UM pastor, serving a different, nearby, congregation.

Mine is a very, very inclusive congregational family.

[AspenRose]

61. Reading too many Chick Tracts

Really rabid fundamentalists and Baptists don't believe Catholics are Christian.

Get your hands on a Chick Tract and you'll see how 'anti papist' they are. It's frightening to this Christian.

[eridani]

62. Actually, lots of fundies don't think Catholics are Christian.

You might want to spread that meme among your Catholic friends.

[RevCheesehead]

63. If any of you are serious about this....

please check out this link from "Sojourners", and sign the petition to speak out against Falwell and his minions.

God is Not a Republican. Or a Democrat.

Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and others on the Religious Right
claim that God has taken a side in this election, and that
Christians should only vote for George W. Bush. The Bush-Cheney
campaign even told volunteers it was their "duty" to make church
directories available to their campaign.

"It is the responsibility of...every evangelical Christian
...to get serious about re-electing President Bush."

- Jerry Falwell, The New York Times, July 16, 2004

How has the love of Jesus, the Prince of Peace - and his good
news to the poor - been distorted by the pro-war, pro-rich
political agenda of the Religious Right? Our faith has been
hijacked, and it's time to take it back!

Click below to sign our petition and send a message to America
that God is not a Republican or a Democrat, and that the
Religious Right does not speak for you. Remind America that
Jesus taught us to be peacemakers, advocates for the poor, and
defenders of justice.

With your help, Sojourners will also place a full-page
advertisement in The New York Times, followed by local newspaper
and online ads across the United States.

Please forward this e-mail to your family and friends. Tell
faithful citizens to make their voices heard.

Sign the petition, support the campaign, and spread the word.
Together we can take back our faith!

http://go.sojo.net/campaign/takebackourfaith?rk=mdqHZD11ga0OW

[seabeyond]

70. i signed.

thanks for this

[Zell in Hell]

64. That's fucking sad...

I'm Canadian, but I have a friend in KY who told me that all but two students in her AP biology class failed a test because they refused to answer the evolution questions for religious reasons.

Such people should be sterilised...lol

[progressivebydesign]

66. All that is required to be a "christian" is a belief in Jesus Christ.

Catholics believe in him as God's son. ANYONE who believes in Christ, as the son of God, etc. etc. is a christian! I HATE when these self appointed zealots decide WHO is Christian, and who is not! Are these people not at all trembled by the flash of lightning? They should be...

[seabeyond]

67. i have been known to say to a few, let me step back a tad

as you finish what you are saying, dont want to be too close to the lightning rod. always with a smile