please stop spreading this - Arnold did not "lie" about the debate

[Kire]

I love Randi Rhodes, and Kos and the Majority Report, but this "gotcha" stuff about how there really was no Humphrey/Nixon debate has got to stop.

Here is the exact quote from Arnold's speech.

"The presidential campaign was in full swing. I remember watching the Nixon-Humphrey presidential race on TV. A friend of mine who spoke German and English translated for me. I heard Humphrey saying things that sounded like socialism, which I had just left."

Check it - the word "debate" does not exist in the speech.

Why can't we figure out that Arnold's friend was translating from the extensive TV coverage of "the race", which was probably quite extensive.

Calling him out as a "bald faced liar" and the "liernator" is quite extreme, I think.

I dunno, but bringing this subject up in the wrong company could bit you in the ass, don't you think?

What's the point anyway? Do we really have nothing else to be critical about?

[cthrumatrix]

1. who cares....screw arnie

[ibegurpard]

6. Jesus Christ...no fucking kidding!

Let Arnold and the Republicans explain themselves. We don't need to do it for them. It's not like someone LIED about something he said.

[cboy4]

Don't say the word "screw" around Arnie.....

he might get all horny and try to grope you!!

[Kira]

2. Thank you for posting that

I did believe her when she said it and I just couldn't believe that they allowed him to say it. I am very suprised that she said that. I hope she talks about it tomorrow.

[Craig Roberts]

3. I agree

As a Californian, I have a special dislike of Schwarzenegger, but I think it is childish and counter-productive to try to create issues out of something like this. It makes us sound as dumb as dittoheads.

[devilgrrl]

5. "Us"?????

Who is us?

[Kire]

7. Kos, Randi Rhodes, Majority Report, DU

[Craig Roberts]

23. Uh...

You know...US. Us on the left who are hopefully more intelligent than the dittoheads?

[ibegurpard]

24. Yeah, the "us" who will bend over backwards to defend the honor

of a repuke who might be, at worst, misrepresented.

:eyes:

[Kire]

25. misrepresentations

that's all I'm trying to clear up, if that defends someone's honor, well....how awful.

[Craig Roberts]

28. Uh..

Okay. Or maybe the "us" who value the truth and don't want to contribute to political discourse sinking to childish levels because we know that is the level the right-wing would like the debate to take place. They will always win at that level, even when we have people like you on our side. You can use "repuke" as often as you like, but you'll never be as good at adolescent snottiness as El Rushbo. I wish Randi Rhoads would figure that out too. She's an embarassment.

[ibegurpard]

29. Stick to tea parties.

eom

[Kire]

31. Mad Tea Party

Mad Tea Party

`Have some wine,' the March Hare said in an encouraging tone.

Alice looked all round the table, but there was nothing on it but tea. `I don't see any wine,' she remarked.

`There isn't any,' said the March Hare.

`Then it wasn't very civil of you to offer it,' said Alice angrily.

`It wasn't very civil of you to sit down without being invited,' said the March Hare.

`I didn't know it was your table,' said Alice; `it's laid for a great many more than three.'

[Craig Roberts]

34. It's always nice

when you person you're debating illustrates your point.

I'm sure your take-no-prisoners approach of using "repukes" a lot in the DU forums and encouraging petty challenges regarding Schwarzenegger's speech will carry the day. If only us nervous nellies will get out of your manly way.

[ibegurpard]

41. Ah

Are you the mastermind behind the "prescription drug benefit will win us the 2002 midterms" theory?
Your civility has gotten us soooo far.

[Craig Roberts]

43. You got me

That was my idea. And you're right, it didn't work out very well. I see your point. I guess we have no choice but to move to plan B: Say "repukes" a lot and insist Arnold said "debate" instead of "race." When do the next round of polls come out? I can't wait to see if this works.

If Schwarzenegger did say "debate," I predict a 4-point bounce for our side. If we can build some momentum behind it, it might take us all the way to the White House. Just keep saying "repukes." And be as uncivil as possible. We can do this.

[ibegurpard]

46. Do you actually think I want to make a campaign ISSUE out of this?

Not at all. I just have no interest in entertaining those who will go to the mat defending people who carry the right-wing's water when they MAY have been misquoted. Key words: MAY and MISQUOTED...not LIED. Capisce?

[Trajan]

4. It may be making a mountain out of a molehill ..

But FUCK Arnie and the GOP anyways ....

[rocktivity]

8. Arnold has a heavy accent, keep in mind

It sure sounded like he said "debate" to me. And how do you explain the rest of a sentence--"a friend translated IT for me"? How do you translate a "race?"

:headbang:
rocknation

[Kire]

10. I heard it three times and copied the text of the debate

from Kos, he clearly said "race"

[bushwakker]

9. Agree. No need to invent outrages. The truth is bad enuf.

[Old and In the Way]

11. This is terrible!

Much worse than the Swift Boat liars..... :eyes:

[Ducks In A Row]

12. Poor arnie, mis-quoted

Bite us Arnie.

[Kire]

13. "Us"?????

[devilgrrl]

65. To ho ho...

you're so clever.... :eyes:

[fob]

14. Wrong! ahnold has told that story BEFORE and said DEBATE, it's

relevant now because he's changed his story for this speech. Someone obviously vetted this speech and caught the error. I've seen the quote on other threads here and I'm almost positive that he told that story during the Totally Farcical Recall of Governor Davis.

I'll see if I can find the other quotes, but go ahead and look for yourself too.

This isn't a direct quote but is from a story in the Sacramento Bee;

Even before he could speak English fluently, Schwarzenegger realized he was a Republican. As a friend translated the 1968 presidential debates, he found he admired Republican Richard Nixon's free-market approaches and rejected Democrat Hubert Humphrey as too much like the Austrian socialists he had left behind.

There are other quotes where he refers to "press conferences" where debate or race is used. I'll keep looking.

[sonicx]

48. yup, see here...

http://www.thismodernworld.com/weblog/mtarchives/week_2003_08_17.html#000972

[Kire]

15. mercury news

Mercury News reporter Jim Puzzanghera, who was in Madison Square Garden during Schwarzenegger's address and who taped the speech, said after reviewing the audiotape that the governor said ``race'' not ``debate.''

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/9551477.htm

[ibegurpard]

16. How fortunate the GOP is to have people like you debunking "rumors"

I hope you put as much energy into deriding the Swift Boat Liars.

[Kire]

18. what rumor?

what are you turning on me for?

this is more than a rumor, it is a social movement, this truth stuff, you know

you're hurting yourself (and the Dems) by spreading lies about lies

as far as the swift boat comment, am I supposed to justify that with an answer?

[SheepyMcSheepster]

17. funny thing is i didn't know what to spread until you posted it

j/k :silly:

[greblc]

19. Here in MN any Slandering of H.H.Humphrey Stings

It's a little tactless. It's easier for the GOP to be critical of someone who has been dead for 27 years than to accuse Todays Dems. of Socialism.

Picking a fight with a dead guy.

Who's the Gh'irlie Mah'n ? ( Lord ,I hate that phrase!)

[Snellius]

20. I heard the audio of the speech. He says "debate" not "race"

Are you reading from the transcript or the actual video tape?

[Kire]

21. both

I heard the speech all the way through twice, and I heard clips of it all day today. Every time, it says 'race'.

I guess it's your word against mine and the Mercury News.

[Kire]

22. I heard it on Randi Rhodes' show and...

I copied the text from Kos, both of whom claim he said "debate", not "race"

[Snellius]

26. Why would he have a friend translate a "race"?

Arnold's speech was pure melodramatic fiction: he never lived under Socialism, or escaped communist repression. Hubert Humphery was not a "socialist". He never had a friend translate for him. He just had to add it because he's trying to cover his bull. The guy's a ego-manical ubermensch.

[Kire]

27. uhhhh....he couldn't speak english?

he was interested in the Presidential race of his new country?

I bet somebody is translating the Bush Kerry race into German right now.

[K-W]

30. If you believe arnold's story is true and not a product of a speech writer

being very liberal with the facts, I have a bridge to sell you.

His speech was well crafted lefty bashing. We are now supposed to believe Mr. Pumping Iron was a life long politics junkie?

[Kire]

33. believe what you want

just don't perpetrate a lie

[K-W]

40. Its not about belief, its about reason.

His story is crafted to do two things. Associate democrats with communists and rewrite Arnolds history to one of political ligitmacy.

Now if someone got the word wrong, fine. They should stop and correct themselves, I'm just pointing out that it would be very niave to think we are hearing an accurate accounting of Arnolds history.

[Snellius]

32. So someone translated the entire presidential race for Arnold?

Right? I've heard this self-glorifying heroic tale from Arnold before and he definitely left the impression that he listened to a specific exchange or whatever you want to call it and that a friend translated it for him. I would like to know the name of this "friend".

[Kire]

35. yeah, every signature on every petition, translated

[Cha]

38. REally?! Very Interesting!

hmmmmmmm!

[NightOwwl]

36. This really is

a total non-issue :eyes:

[Kire]

37. maybe

[John_H]

39. LOL! Stop lying say the freepers!! Rich.

[blue neen]

42. Was he groping the friend who did the translating?

That's the important question here.

[EST]

44. And to quote Lazarus Long-

Occams razor is, sometimes, a dull hunk of pot metal.
We have a weapon here at DU and, one hopes, fairly generally across the democratic party. Slur, make fun of, make speeches about, cuss out, but don't ever, ever tell or perpetuate a lie about anyone. This is not only the oppurtunity to save our democracy and, by extension, the world, but the only way we can have the world we want is by demonstrating integrity, for all to see. Not by resorting to cheap shots. Don't give up the only big, sharp, glittering weapon we have against the enemy we must fight!!

[sonicx]

45. There's mixup - please read

in last night's speech he did say 'race' BUT in the past he has said 'debate.' someone must have mixed them up. Arnold is still lying

read this:

http://www.thismodernworld.com/weblog/mtarchives/week_2003_08_17.html#000972

Howdy all, sorry I'm not around as much. I'll start my own blog one of these days. Go buy Tom's book. OK, that out of the way:

Today's L.A. Times notes that Arnold has been telling an untrue story about why he became a Republican for years:

... Arnold Schwarzenegger decided to become a Republican after listening to "the debates of Hubert Humphrey and Richard Nixon when they were debating for the presidential race," or so he told television talk show host Bill O'Reilly in May 2001. "Hubert Humphrey spoke about things I heard in Austria under socialism."
The only problem: there was no such presidential debate in 1968.

snip

[Junkdrawer]

47. Great first post. Welcome to DU...

:toast:

[Kire]

49. my second point

so what if he did say debate instead of race? it might not have actually been a forum with a moderator, but I am sure they debated publicly, much like Bush and Kerry are debating the issues every day today.

If he said it then, and he corrected himself last night, then he should be commended for this kind of flip flop.

Do I sound like a Freeper because I commend a GOP'er? This was not my intention, but I suppose you are going to make a childish, personal attack anyway, aren't you?

[Junkdrawer]

52. Wow. A preemptive accusation of a personal attack...A DU first...

Don't see that every day. :silly:

[sonicx]

53. why would i attack you? you know nothing about me

i was just pointing out arnold's lie. calm down!

:shrug:

[Kire]

62. sorry

I didn't mean to address you sonics, I was actually thinking about ibegurpard and some others

I know I replied to your post, I should have been more general

my sincerest apologies

Erik

[blue neen]

55. Kire, this is not a personal attack.

Listen, Arnold just is not worth getting upset about. I doubt very much if he gave much thought to whether he would say "race" or "debate." I know you are a hard-working individual (I've seen your posts before). Don't get bogged down in this.

[K-W]

57. Now you are just looking for excuses for Arnold.

If he said he watched a debate, and no debate existed, he was lying. Dont try to spin it. If he meant the campaign, he never would have said debate. It isnt as if presidential debates arent a well understood formalized tradition. He knows the difference between a campaign and a debate.

[Kire]

63. touche

[Snellius]

51. And since when is Austrian "socialism" like Soviet repression

I had some admiration for Arnold until last night's completely ludicrous speech. Arnold is like Reagan. A purely self-made myth of himself. Calling Humphrey a "socialist" is more than ignorant. It's dangerous.

[K-W]

59. A leftist basher, just like Ronnie. Good to see you lost your admiration.

I certainly never harbored any.

[Zen Democrat]

50. Well, Larry King reported it as "debate" and CNN said "debate" on the web

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/31/gop.main/

[realcountrymusic]

56. As I understand it

He HAD been saying "debate" in a series of earlier speeches to republican groups, and had already been called on his "error." So he changed it to "race" in the convention speech, but as some have pointed out, it almost makes no sense.

RCM

[Kire]

61. CNN misquotes Schwarzenegger on '68 remarks

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/9551477.htm

[Zen Democrat]

54. Apparently Ahnold wrote about watching the "debate" in his book ---

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/recall/story/7457298p-8400137c.html

In his book, Schwarzenegger also said he spent most of his time training and made money with seminars, a mail-order training business and investing in real estate with Weider's help.

Even before he could speak English fluently, Schwarzenegger realized he was a Republican. As a friend translated the 1968 presidential debates, he found he admired Republican Richard Nixon's free-market approaches and rejected Democrat Hubert Humphrey as too much like the Austrian socialists he had left behind.

(This was part of his stump speech in California. He said debate many times. When they vetted his speech at the RNC they cleaned it up to obscure the lie.)

[johnnie]

58. I thought I heard debate last night also

I could be wrong.
But I will say that it's quite obvious that he has said "debate" in the past. I think it is worth mentioning and getting people talking about it. If anything but to show that he is just yapping a fairytale about how he became a Republican. Just more bullshit from these people. He is Governor of one of the most populated states and he wants to be a big time politician....he doesn't know basic American presidential history?

[unfrigginreal]

60. Wow! What a waste of bandwidth

Fuck Gropey

[NV1962]

64. the idiot can distinguish shit from shineola

So he wants to sell the pitch that some poor non-English speaking shmuck finds another one who happens to be bilingual and kindly translates the whole race. Which arguably started on August 10 in 1968 -- when McGovern announced his run - Nixon announced his run on Februari 1 that year -- and ended on November 5 that year (when Nixon narrowly defeated McGovern.)

What a wonderful special friend this freshly arrived but apparently non-English speaking immigrant had: someone friendly enough to translate a "race" that lasted just shy of 3 months? Where would one find such charitable treasures these days, relaying "the race" for a hapless and recently landed Austrian?

Not only that, but the import-on-steroids apparently had a friend who combined fraternal devotion with close to extraterrestrial intelligence, as he was seemingly able to translate not only words but also the relevant political concepts and context to a clueless foreigner! Not surprisingly, our Austrian pet mountain goat immediately understood the whole political discourse down to the last detail.

Fortunately, neither the surrounding turbulence of the DNC in Chicago, nor the anti-war protests, nor the Soviet invasion of (then still) Czechoslovakia managed to distract our beloved bloated body. No, he stayed relentlessly focused -- probably helped by the ruthlessly efficient and no-nonsense German language, jawohl danke schön! -- and immediately picked out the bad guy: the commie liberal socialist bastard McGovern.

According to the trained non-native English ears of that pumping ironhead, McGoverned sounded like one, probably because McGovern was the guy running for the "pro-Vietnam" war party... and who could, nay: could ever doubt the honest to German Shepherd word of an anti-immigrant, English-Only heirloom nazi, who not only heroicly refused to step down from US English, an English-Only group with such a racist bent (branded by the SPLC as a hate group) that not only Walter Cronkite but even fellow conserf Linda Chavez left in disgust?

Yeah, really: who would ever (ever!) want to accuse a patriotic, flag-jerking, barely intelligible, patriotic, testosteron-overloaded, pro-force and order, did I say patriotic, intellect-repellant and above all charming closet nazi of something so totally out of character as being a liar?

Oh, he merely misunderspoke a bit, perhaps he discombobucated a date here and a location there, but don't we all have a widdy brain malfunction from time to time? Heck, even our folksy and plainspoken PRETZIDENT OF ZE YOONITED STATES OF AMURKA has had an occasional and absolutely newsunworthy lapse of youthful undiscretion...

After all, in our Göbbelsian-minded society we all know that a little sprayed truthbone is the acceptable collateral damage sustained by the We the People (what a lily-livered LIEberal socialist commie pinko concept that is anyway!) among a mainstream press that is either too yellow or too much related to the Junta, said Junta itself, and heaps of bimbos and Billy-Bobs who think Nascar should run for President...

Lie, lapse, lobotomy - what's the fucking difference anyway huh.

But I'll tell you what. I'll keep saying that the Shlonkinator is a fitting posterboy for his genius twin W, neither of them being able tell a lie from a randomly performed female assgrab. And you can continue to defend the honor of the imbeciles.

Howzat - deal?

[MrBenchley]

66. In fact, he's told the story with "debate" before

and he's certainly trying to pretend he was listening to one....or are we supposed to think his friend hung by the TV for three months, continuously translating.

And there's plenty to be critical about, including him trying to give the impression that Austria was a communist dictatorship when he was growing up (it wasn't) and "Dun't be an economic girlyman."