democrats still do not understand that they are dealing with fanatics.

[Veggie Meathead]

The belief in offering reasons for what you say, being courteous in conversations, thinking that even in opposition one should willingly listen to the other person these are basic Democratic values.After looking at the speeches by Zell Miller and Dick Cheney and the fanatical crowd reaction,I can only believe that we have entered the Jim Jones Era of American Politics.No reasons needed,no quarters given, none asked.Hatred,venom,vengeance for deeds and misdeeds known and unknown.This is the state of the Republican Party today.

I hope the American people as a whole were as repelled by this spectacle of hate as I was.

[Jo March]

1. Did you notice the crowd? Many had their hands clasped

as if in prayer during Dick Cheney's speech. That is what scared me the most. They appeared to be praying while this man spoke!

[Veggie Meathead]

3. I noticed that too. It is scary to say the least.

[GR]

2. You're Right But...

I thought the crowed looked worried during Zell's speech. I think even they thought he was too "hot" for television and the occaison.

[Cats Against Frist]

4. It's been like that for at least ten years

Since 1994, the GOP has gotten mean, and nasty -- you're right. But it's not a "new" thing. It is the right-wing hate radio barons that started this, and they are the reason why our discourse is in the mud.

I've listened to various Republicans rip on Al Franken and Michael Moore, like they're some kind of abomination, but they NEVER NEVER NEVER say anything about Rush "Feminazi/Clinton Killed Vince Foster" Limbaugh, Michael "deny women the vote" Savage, Ann "Terrorists should blow up the NY Times building" Coulter, or any of the sentimental/venomous bullshit that North and Hannity spew.

They ARE the reason that our debate is in the toilet, and it works well for Republicans. Keep the people stupid, fearful and make it ***SENSATIONAL***.


***edited to add: Almost half the GOP are loony extremist Evangelicals who think the world is going to end in their lifetime, and they're treating this not like an election, but like a holy crusade. Between them, and the talk-radio freepers, you definitely have a fascist movement. And fascism feeds on zealousy.

[tigereye]

5. "Jim Jones era of American politics"

that is pretty scary and unfortunately seems accurate.

[ladjf]

13. Folks, there are root causes to this lunacy that aren't being

examined. It has to do with wisdom, that knowledge that a healthy animal acquires as they go through life, adding this idea, dropping another, all based on real experiences. That wisdom in the product of philosophical observation and contemplation. As far as I can tell, the science of philosophy is all but non-existent in society.

A workable, valid hierarchy of values can't be constructed when the source of observation is totally subjective and narrow.

[tigereye]

18. nicely said

it sometimes seems that many have lost the ability to ask questions and use reason.

[Veggie Meathead]

8. One thing that clearly comes across is how they avoid any

discussion of substantive issues like the economy, our relations with allies, even the conduct of the war in Iraq.It is almost as though the Republicans are not accountable to anyone while they seek accountability from Democrats for even trivial matters.What is laughable to me is that John Kerry is required to prove that he was worthy of his honors while Bush disdains offering proof of his attendance at the national guard post which was secured for him to avoid going to Vietnam!

[ladjf]

14. It's worse than laughable. It's sick.

[Veggie Meathead]

17. There was a statement attributed to Bush in Bob Woodward's

book BUSH AT WAR, that goes: I do not feel I owe anybody any explanation of why I do things;maybe they have to explain to me why they do or say things.I certainly don't feel I owe them any explanation.The arrogance, the sense of entitlement and totalitarian mindset in this statement are breathtaking.It is this mindset that leads to asking whether Kerry earned his medals while ignoring one's own greater offense of avoiding the draft altogether and then not even showing up for the national guard service that was secured for him as a way to avoid being drafted.

[ladjf]

22. You have made an important observation.

I see that same arrogance all too frequently. I fear that we are having an epidemic of narcissism. Interestingly, the Existentialists, with all of their criticisms of the Establishment, commit the same
error in logic,that all answers reside within their own minds. It's as though science is non-existent.

But, while humans are playing mind games with survival, the natural laws remain, neither cruel or kind, just constant. One human requires certain conditions in order to live. If these are met, it's "bye, bye". We seem to be getting away with inefficiency. But, conditions are ever changing.

[independentpiney]

23. Isn't that the truth

I see it regularly on message boards
1)They come on spouting talking points
2)You refute their points with valid links
3)They ignore your links and charge ahead with the same points like a deranged bull.
4) They ignore requests to provide valid links supporting their view, because there are none.

[ugarte]

6. Bullseye, on the money!

You got it. We're up against 'Christian' jihadists who believe both Reagan and Bush were sent by God to save America.

How do you communicate with people like that?

[ladjf]

16. We can't. But, nature will.

Unfortunately, they are taking us down with them. Their life strategies are based on superstition. Nature doesn't allow that level of inefficiency. Extinction is the punishment.

[Dhalgren]

7. Which American people?

The one who loves and honors the constitution? Or the one who wants the constitution replaced by the Bible?

The one who thinks you have the right to hold any opinion you like? Or the one who wants to institute concentration camps for Liberals?

The American People who work hard and honor fair play and equality? Or the one who thinks fair play is for suckers and "Go fuck yourself" should be the national motto?

There is two Americas, this election will (at least temporarily) show which one is the strongest.

I don't think that the Busheviks will leave power without violence. I hope that I am wrong, but I fear that I am right.

[Veggie Meathead]

12. I hope that we Democrats represent the majority of the American

people who have faith in our Constitution,being fair and kind to our fellow citizens,especially those in need for physical or financial reasons.I contrast the evident hatred on display at the RNC with the kindness and thoughtfulness of our Governor Jennifer Granholm who stated that our thoughts must be for 'the least among us" as the Bible says.

[BeFree]

9. For sometime now

That's why we call them Pukes!

The hate inherent in the pukes actions regarding all matters political has never been more evident. Due to the pukes self-realization of imminent failure, America is now being subjected to their naked ambitions.

For years now, our Dem Representatives in DC have had to live with these pukes, day in and day out. They have my gratitude for their forebearance and fortitude in the face of such despicable politicians.

Finally, Help is on the way.... Kerry On!

[hadrons]

10. I agree, someone in the media mentioned in 2002 that the Dems ...

didn't know how to fight back (and it was a 'moran' RWer, it was someone concerned about what's happening) ... its been 10-15 years of this hardcore crap from the right and the dems still don't get it

personally I think its the corporate $$$, corporation America wants one party (but the appearance of two) and they want a docile left

[ladjf]

11. You are correct.

We can only hope that in the long run, their evil ways will "catch up" with them. Meanwhile, they are stealing America from us. If we use their tactics, we are as bad as they are. If we don't, we lose the elections. That's the dilemma.

[Veggie Meathead]

15. during the nixon impeachment hearings, the high point for me came

when Barbara Jordan,a powerful orator in the same league as Sen.Byrd,proclaimed her faith in our Constitution. There was no doubt in her voice what our country was facing at that time. Just like Barbara Jordan, we are also called upon to place our faith in our Constitution and let these unAmerican fanatics sow the seeds of their own destruction as their mentor Joe McCarthy did fifty odd years ago.

[henslee]

19. I concur (from prev. recent post of mine) "These simpletons are the same

fuckers you hear about in WWII documentaries, whose humdrum little lives were suddenly spiced up and filled with importance when they assumed local Nazi party posts and soon became Hitler's greatest asset, the "foot soldier" In real life, they seem utterly harmless and impossible to hate. How perfectly brilliant. They are so... ordinary."

We must give THEM no quarter. And "THEM" is anyone who's an accomplice, willing or not. Whether its easing up on the "Bush twins" or not immediately pouncing when your patriotism is challenged for merely speaking your mind or failing to call the media out on a distortion. IT ALL MATTERS. These sickos get more and more brazen when left unchecked. They mistaken silence for a green-light to amp up attacks. They mistake kindness for stupidity. All of our actions and inactions makes a difference. This is the real war.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. I think that DUers and other rank&file Dems have known for years

and it's been obvious for years. If you can catch the documentary The Last Party, it's about the 1992 political conventions (with, of all people, Robert Downey Jr. as the on-screen guide). Even back then, the Republican "faithful" had that drugged out look and didn't make much sense when they spoke.

I think that state-level Dems have noticed for a long time, judging by conversations I've had with local elected officials in both Oregon and Minnesota.

The problem is that the Beltway Democrats, stuck in an environment where they call each other "the gentleman from...." and play squash together during lunch hour, have trouble understanding the true nature of the other side's aims.

[cthrumatrix]

21. this is a power grab for "the few self appointed people" and we are the

surfs in "bush world"... the gag is that all the other repugs are duped and taken to the cleaners.

Unemployment, helath care affect all people

[leftofthedial]

24. they are zealots

irrational, full of irrational fear, full of irrational hate, full of irrational contradictory beliefs.

they are zombie minions in the service of a few would-be aristocrats.

[Mrs. Overall]

25. Many Democrats are naive regarding fundamentalism

and plain ol' bigotry.

My experience in talking to other Democrats is that many of them have only lived either on the East or West Coasts in mostly liberal areas and they have never personally known truly bigoted people or people caught up in fundamentalist christian religions. These Democrats, therefore, can't believe that people actually still judge each other on race or sexuality and they can't believe that there are people who literally expect Jesus to return to Earth in the rapture.

I, however, have lived in rural areas and observed the way Mexicans, African Americans, Native Americans, Asians, gays, environmentalists, feminists, non-Christians, were talked about and treated. There is some deep hate that still exists just outside our urban areas.

Also, I have family members who are part of fundamentalist christian churches and their beliefs are frightening. Democrats must address George Bush's fundamentalist beliefs, must address that he is anti-evolution and believes in the Adam and Eve story, expects Jesus to return to Earth in his lifetime, believes all other religions (and I would put Catholics here, too) are going to hell, along with a myriad of other beliefs that are key to his domestic and foreign policies. This fanatism must be brought out by the Democrats.