Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The "McClellan" gaffe might have been a trap that didn't work.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:45 PM
Original message
The "McClellan" gaffe might have been a trap that didn't work.
Edited on Sun Oct-05-08 03:59 PM by ginnyinWI
Talking this over at home this occurred to me:
It would have been a perfect set-up to have Palin say "Gen. MeClellan" when the person in question's name was "Gen. McKiernan" and then expect Joe Biden to jump at it and correct her and look pompous and condescending doing it. The reason I think so is that Biden referred to the General a few times after that and each time it was, "our commanding general in Afghanistan" and not by name. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I heard. Joe saw the trap and stuck to his plan to only attack McLame and promote Obama.

They would have loved to paint Joe as having deliberately tried to make Sarah look dumb, and she'd have gotten to play the victim card and go on the stump and make joke after joke about it. Ha--didn't work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. You may be on to something there!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. I thought this EXACT same thing a couple of days ago
I also think it was a set up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. I "think" Joe may have said he didn't know who this MeClellan is....would have to review the debate
video to confirm.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I found the transcript, NYT
Edited on Sun Oct-05-08 03:57 PM by ginnyinWI
Here is the part in question:

PALIN: OK, I'd like to just really quickly mention there, too, that when you look back and you say that the Bush administration's policy on Afghanistan perhaps would be the same as McCain, and that's not accurate.

The surge principles, not the exact strategy, but the surge principles that have worked in Iraq need to be implemented in Afghanistan, also. And that, perhaps, would be a difference with the Bush administration.

Now, Barack Obama had said that all we're doing in Afghanistan is air-raiding villages and killing civilians. And such a reckless, reckless comment and untrue comment, again, hurts our cause.

That's not what we're doing there. We're fighting terrorists, and we're securing democracy, and we're building schools for children there so that there is opportunity in that country, also. There will be a big difference there, and we will win in -- in Afghanistan, also.

IFILL: Senator, you may talk about nuclear use, if you'd like, and also about Afghanistan.

BIDEN: I'll talk about both. With Afghanistan, facts matter, Gwen.

The fact is that our commanding general in Afghanistan said today that a surge -- the surge principles used in Iraq will not -- well, let me say this again now -- our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan, not Joe Biden, our commanding general in Afghanistan.

He said we need more troops. We need government-building. We need to spend more money on the infrastructure in Afghanistan.

Look, we have spent more money -- we spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country.

Let me say that again. Three weeks in Iraq; seven years, seven years or six-and-a-half years in Afghanistan. Now, that's number one.

Number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported.

John McCain has opposed amending the Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty with an amendment to allow for inspections.

John McCain has not been -- has not been the kind of supporter for dealing with -- and let me put it another way. My time is almost up.

Barack Obama, first thing he did when he came to the United States Senate, new senator, reached across the aisle to my colleague, Dick Lugar, a Republican, and said, "We've got to do something about keeping nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists."

They put together a piece of legislation that, in fact, was serious and real. Every major -- I shouldn't say every -- on the two at least that I named, I know that John McCain has been opposed to extending the arms control regime in the world.

IFILL: Governor?

PALIN: Well, first, McClellan did not say definitively the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. Certainly, accounting for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different. We have NATO allies helping us for one and even the geographic differences are huge but the counterinsurgency principles could work in Afghanistan. McClellan didn't say anything opposite of that. The counterinsurgency strategy going into Afghanistan, clearing, holding, rebuilding, the civil society and the infrastructure can work in Afghanistan. And those leaders who are over there, who have also been advising George Bush on this have not said anything different but that.

IFILL: Senator.

BIDEN: Well, our commanding general did say that. The fact of the matter is that again, I'll just put in perspective, while Barack and I and Chuck Hagel and Dick Lugar have been calling for more money to help in Afghanistan, more troops in Afghanistan, John McCain was saying two years ago quote, "The reason we don't read about Afghanistan anymore in the paper, it's succeeded.

Barack Obama was saying we need more troops there. Again, we spend in three weeks on combat missions in Iraq, more than we spent in the entire time we have been in Afghanistan. That will change in a Barack Obama administration.


Just before this she actually asks for the subject of Afghanistan to be brought up.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html

The only other reason for not naming the general would be to keep it simple. He spoke at the 8th grade level and she at the 10th grade level, which was worse in this context. You want to keep it as simple as possible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. ok thanks! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. She admitted in a news conference she made a mistake
said she knew it was McKiernan but said McClellan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Joe was exceptional during the debate. He didn't do a THING that Palin could use against him
and distract from the real race.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. You are correct. I was paying close attention to that part of the exchange,
... and that is exactly what happened.

BIDEN: I'll talk about both. With Afghanistan, facts matter, Gwen.

The fact is that our commanding general in Afghanistan said today that a surge -- the surge principles used in Iraq will not -- well, let me say this again now -- our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan, not Joe Biden, our commanding general in Afghanistan.

He said we need more troops. We need government-building. We need to spend more money on the infrastructure in Afghanistan.

Look, we have spent more money -- we spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country.

Let me say that again. Three weeks in Iraq; seven years, seven years or six-and-a-half years in Afghanistan. Now, that's number one.

Number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported.

John McCain has opposed amending the Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty with an amendment to allow for inspections.

John McCain has not been -- has not been the kind of supporter for dealing with -- and let me put it another way. My time is almost up.

Barack Obama, first thing he did when he came to the United States Senate, new senator, reached across the aisle to my colleague, Dick Lugar, a Republican, and said, "We've got to do something about keeping nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists."

They put together a piece of legislation that, in fact, was serious and real. Every major -- I shouldn't say every -- on the two at least that I named, I know that John McCain has been opposed to extending the arms control regime in the world.

IFILL: Governor?

PALIN: Well, first, McClellan did not say definitively the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. Certainly, accounting for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different. We have NATO allies helping us for one and even the geographic differences are huge but the counterinsurgency principles could work in Afghanistan. McClellan didn't say anything opposite of that. The counterinsurgency strategy going into Afghanistan, clearing, holding, rebuilding, the civil society and the infrastructure can work in Afghanistan. And those leaders who are over there, who have also been advising George Bush on this have not said anything different but that.

IFILL: Senator

BIDEN: Well, our commanding general did say that. The fact of the matter is that again, I'll just put in perspective, while Barack and I and Chuck Hagel and Dick Lugar have been calling for more money to help in Afghanistan, more troops in Afghanistan, John McCain was saying two years ago quote, "The reason we don't read about Afghanistan anymore in the paper, it's succeeded.

Barack Obama was saying we need more troops there. Again, we spend in three weeks on combat missions in Iraq, more than we spent in the entire time we have been in Afghanistan. That will change in a Barack Obama administration.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html


I have no idea if she was luring Biden into looking harsh, but Biden going nuts over the general's name would have distracted from the undeniable fact that Palin was dead wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. I noticed it at the time and fully credited Joe Biden
for not making her look as stupid as she sounds. He's the master. She's an unfit, unqualified liar.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Joe's an old pro--
whether she did it on purpose or not, mentioning it would have been a distraction at least, and at most would have given her a talking point to use against him.

He gets an A+ rating from me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yeah, better to force them to keep making up lies.
Joe gave nothing away. I can't really comment on Palin because she registers below invisible with me. I don't see people going out and standing in long lines on election day (and I believe that there will be long lines of newly registered Democrats EVERYWHERE!) to vote for McLame and Ditzy. Joe Biden is a great human being and will make a trusted and trustworthy VP. Barack Obama is the most exciting candidate since JFK! We need to keep working, but Dems will win in November! GObama! :dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. ah HA! K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Not. She's not smart enough to make a trap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. I had the same thought... At first I wondered at his NOT correcting her..
It was such an OBVIOUS gaffe. Even I, with only a cursory recollection of my studies of the Civil War would have recognized the name and mused on the coincidence, had there been a McClelland in Iraq....

I thought perhaps he was being courteous in not bringing attention to what might have been a "misspeak". . until she did it AGAIN..

Then I thought..... trap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yeah, right, just like she was pretending to be an imbecile with Katie to lower debate expectations.
Rove's got you folks in knots looking for mollecular-level conspiracies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ramius Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. That's very possible... Never thought of that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC