My father is the problem we have to solve.

[Pale Blue Dot]

I'm moving back in with my parents, and I was at their house moving some stuff. My father is a registered Republican who never voted for Reagan, and who was a big Perot supporter. He is so far going for Bush in this election.

I talked to him for a little bit while drinking a soda. When I was done, I absent-mindedly threw the can in the trash.

The Republican then proceeded to lecture his liberal son on recycling (deservedly so); but one of the reasons he gave for recycling was so that "we could stick it to the Arabs."

My father is liberal in a lot of ways (although he would probably hate that term), but he is so angry over 9/11 that he is willing to put back into office the man he sees as the one who took action against the terrorists. He refuses to see how complicated the situation is, or how complacent or negligent Bush was in his actions. It is a black and white issue for him: they attacked us, we attack back.

Now that I'm going to be living with him again, I have two months to get through to him.

John Kerry has the same amount of time to get through to the American people. How will he do it?

[soothsayer]

1. show him F911 and let him see how buddyboy is owned by the saudis

That oughta put a hitch in his getalong

[iconoclastic cat]

14. Yeah, all that flesh-pressing between Poppy and SaudCo will

send anyone who is sceptical of the motives of Middle Eastern countries' motives right over the edge into anti-Bushism.

[A_Possum]

2. Ask him to explain to you in detail why we are now safer

having invaded Iraq. And if that new level of safety is worth the billions we are spending? Can he be sure there will be no terrorist attacks now?

I just don't see how the Iraq situation makes any common sense in terms of the terror threat. It has shown the terrorists clearly that our army is absolutely impotent against them, and that is the worse possible message to send.

[frank frankly]

3. i have the same dilemia

i've been really talking with my dad for months and months now. he voted for bush and is leaning again towards him, but nothing in him is a freeper.

i got him to read the O'Neill book, but that didn't clinch it.

everytime i see him, i have to mention it. i know that i may be in danger of pushing him away from my persistence, but i feel these BushCo criminals are the most important thing facing us as a species, certainly as a country.

i think he'll vote for Kerry. i hope he is truly waiting for the debates...

GOOD LUCK!

[progressivebydesign]

19. Buy F9/11 when it comes out, watch it with your fathers. n/t

[shraby]

29. Go to the library and get the book

Worse than Watergate by Ellsberg. That might convince him because he remembers Watergate.

[dmr]

34. O'Neill's book didn't convince him?

This is the Price of Loyalty by Ron Suskind, right?

In the book, he establishes immediately (the first week in office) that their target was Iraq. If that doesn't convince anyone, I don't know what would. The book is also quite clear that Bush* was uninvolved and that Cheney was the boss.

This is one book that kept me awake at night thinking about everything about this mal-administration.

I've been doing a battle with my neighbor and his brother, who just enlisted in the army (to help Bush* catch terrorists). I had them convinced a few months ago, but their minds are like a rubber band, their thinking snapped right back to Bush*. A couple of weeks ago I tried to explain PNAC and the goal they have for the Black Gold in the Caspian Sea, and our need to control the surrounding land to achieve that goal. But these young men are so far gone, they think the oil is just a liberal's excuse to be lax on terror. Bush* is the guy with guts. It makes me very sick. They don't want to hear that as long as we keep ourselves there, we will always live with the threat of terrorist attacks.

They jumped all over me about Bush* wanting to reign in on the trial lawyers. How all this is necessary. One of the boys has a girlfriend who is pregnant. I asked him, if his baby dies because of a mistake by the doctor or hospital, would he want to take legal recourse? Yes, he told me. Well, my friend, under Bush* you will no longer have that right. What if your child lives and needs long-term medical care? You will be shit out of luck. Your right for legal remedy has been taken from you. Is it not better to have a few frivolous lawsuits to secure your right to sue? Is it not better to control the massive profits of insurance and pharmaceutical companies than to remove a potential personal right? That point got across to him. But he said chances are very slim to none that he'd ever need that right, besides, his girlfriend is having a good pregnancy. Then I told him about my daughter dying because of bad medical decisions. He just remained silent.

So Frank and Fin, it's an uphill battle. They hear bits and pieces of soundbites that advances Bush* and negates Senator Kerry; the media plays a roll in it, and we try to counteract it. It is very tiring, but someone's gotta do it, so it's in our lap.

[gardenista]

4. Remind your dad that Cheney says fuck recycling!

Remember when he said that energy conservation might make people feel better about things, but really made no difference?

[BillZBubb]

5. Your father is a registered Republican

He's not really the type we can expect to reach. We need all the Democrats and as many Independents as we can get. You know: reasonable people.

He seems to be a hopeless case. If he equates invading Iraq with 9/11 it isn't worth the effort--the body snatchers have him.

[The Doctor.]

23. Funny you should say that...

I'm a registered Republican (A REAL Republican - not Bushite), and I can't concieve of voting for this moron past or future.

My whole family is Republican but I've been working on them.
Ma might come over, brother and sister aren't voting Bush, but dad's gonna be impossible...

I'll keep trying though.

Wish me luck.

[GaryL]

27. My brother too.

And both his sons. They're all voting Kerry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Bush had the Hart Ruddman report for 9 months

No one read it and most of the recommendations in it are similar to the recs in the 911 commission report but for the intelligence bureaucracy stuff.

How can your father believe Bush is good for terror when he didn't even bother to pay attention to it until we were attacked?

(BTW..Kudos to your dad for NAILING you on the can. Recycling is good. M'kay?)

[farmbo]

7. Get a copy of this month's " Sierra" magazine...

...it totally exposes (and eviscerates) the Bush Admin's war against the environment. He needs to vote against Bush to "...stick it to the Arabs".

As far as Bush's "War on Terrorism"...please remind him that we were clobbered on 9/11 with boxcutters...not B-2 bombers...By Saudis...not Iraqis.

We need a new global approach to fighting the terrorists.

We need Grownups in the Whitehouse!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. the Bushes are the bestest friends Arabs have ever had

tell your dad Kerry will stick it to the Arabs even better when he gets this nation energy independent.

[seabeyond]

9. do you feel passion for kerry what you have learned

i am now going another approach. it isnt going to be why you dont want to vote bush. it is going to be how awesome kerry is. soemthing kick ass he said, just say to dad, man i so think the dude awesome he said this, i respect that. and man thisguy has integrity. and you know this guy works ahrd at this.

just living with him and your excitement of kerry your father will start actually get to know kerry. bet he has never listened to kerry, heard his speeches. those that oppose his 71 speech, bit none of them have heard it.

[AuntPatsy]

10. The trick is don't stop pushing Kerry and Edwards.....

the media has been doing the song and dance for the pretneder for four years now, the heck with them, we will take up the slack, no doubters in this group!

[crispini]

11. Try being rational

Not all Arabs are bad Arabs. Not all Arabs are good Arabs. But the foreign policy we've been following is simply going to turn good Arabs into bad Arabs. (Simplistic but maybe that's the way to go?)

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

12. Clinton watched Bin Laden with Predators

and Bush discontinued that until 9/11 prompted a resumption. The Clinton administration considered arming Predators and taking OBL out, but did not want to hand a "Blackhawk Down" style situation to the incoming Prez Bush. This has been reported on widely in the press.

I am surprised when it does not sway those who claim Democrats are weak on national defense. Maybe it can be a start with your dad. For what it's worth, I have a similar task with mine.

[PurityOfEssence]

13. Ask him why we got rid of one of Osama's greatest enemies

Fundamentalist Muslims and xenophobic Islamists didn't have a toehold in Iraq; now they're a major presence. The act of helping Osama by getting rid of the great infidel also helped him endlessly in recruitment.

Ask him if he sees any difference between "Arabs" and "Moslems" or "Persians" or "Indonesians" or if his real issue is with Muslims.

Tell him he's helping Osama by his ignorance, and whether he likes it or not, we can't kill or subjugate them all.

Tell him that Kerry and Edwards (hell, even Dean) wanted to go after Osama and the Taliban, and they wouldn't have used it as an excuse to settle their daddy's old score before the job was done. Resources were diverted from capturing Bin Laden well before they should have, and Kerry wouldn't have done that; Bush is hell-bent on personal vengeance that he is of no use to anyone. We need a President who's working for us, not for his family and cronies.

[DrFunkenstein]

15. Tora Bora, The Powell Doctrine, and The Rush To War

1. Acting politically safe, but strategically unsound, Bush used warlords instead of the greatest military in the world, and Osama operates today because of it.

2. Acting politically safe, but strategically unsound, Bush ignored the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force and used the Rumsfeld Doctrine of small, light forces that failed to effectively secure Baghdad.

3. Bush rushed to war in March 2003 because of a "grave and growing threat" of WMDS that did not exist. We are a thousand brave souls less for it, and it has overstretched our military and diverted it from the real war against al-Qaeda.

------------

You can take that to the bank. There is not a Republican I know that can respond to any of those charges.

[Gregorian]

16. How to get someone to understand.

I'm very poor at it. But I know how it works, in theory.
In fact, you even hinted at it in your post. And so did someone else in this thread.
I think the mind works in a way that requires comparing thoughts. When one thought parallels up to another one, then the brain can do it's work.
Antagonism, or haste is a killer. It takes thought and preparation, which I am sure you've done, if you've lived with him all your life.
Not only do you need to scope out what it is that he feels strongly about, but you have to find what Kerry and/or Edwards has that supports it. I'd almost say to forget about Bush. I know republicans who hate bush, but they just can't vote for Kerry. The issue is getting him to vote for Kerry.
Perhaps it's something that he won't have in his life since the disaster bush made with the treasury funds. Retirement. Prescription drugs.
I don't think it's as easy as I once thought. After being in these forums, I now know that it's not binary. I mean, Clinton was great, but he didn't accomplish the health care reform we wanted. It wasn't because he didn't try. Now bush didn't even try.
It might even take some background effort. He probably believes what he sees on tv. Since Reagan dumped the Fairness Doctrine, what we see on the news isn't neccisarily the truth, let alone fair or balanced.
I don't know. I can only wish you luck. And if you don't succeed, remember he's still your dad.

One of the worst mistakes I made in my life was returning home to my parents in my twenties. I didn't have money. But at fifty, I wish I'd never done it. I lost a lot of experiences, and life energy, by going back. Just a thought.

Good luck with whatever you do.


Edit- Just looking at the other posts, I realize that you have an incredible wealth of things to show your dad. Too many, in fact. How incredibly similar the situation in America appears to that in Nazi Germany (although I doubt he's anywhere near ready for that one.). Why did bush go into that classroom after he knew the plane were already hitting the WTC. The PNAC is a firestorm. They needed a new Pearl Harbor. Plame. Just the yellow cake scam, itself. Saddam and Osama were on the CIA payroll. Bush Sr. was meeting with Osama's brother during the WTC disaster. I mean, it's a list ten miles long. The trick is getting his mind ready and willing to hear it without any judgement. It's a trick you'll have to perform. And I'm certain that friendship and love play a huge role. Even if you're angry, step back and be loving. It won't work any other way.

[progressivebydesign]

17. But, other than a wimpy attempt in Afghanistan..

Bush has done NOTHING against terrorism. Is your father aware that terrorism has actually INCREASED since Bush took office? The report that said it went down, was incorrect, and Powell had to backtrack and apologize for it. Does your father know that?? What exactly has Bush done, really? Iraq was NOT a terrorism threat.. never was. Now it's rampant with terrorists. Russia is being torn apart by terrorists right now.. 2 passenger jets were blown up last week in Russia, by terrorists. I just don't see how Bush has done anything but TALK about his war on terror. I wish you luck.. your father appears to believe he has the answers, but doesn't bother to look deeply enough for the real answers.

[many a good man]

18. Glass belly button

Afghanistan was retribution for 911. NOT Iraq. Bush* didn't finish the job in Afghanistan and let the bastard Bin Laden get away.

Saddam was in a box and didn't pose a threat to anybody. Bush* didn't want to wait for inspections so he could funnel billions to Halliburton and other cronies. Meanwhile the national debt soars and the military is weakened, overstretched, demoralized and still dying. The enemy is multiplying faster than we can kill them.

Europe won't help him out because they're on to his scam. The only way out of this mess is a new leader. Someone who can lead the world, not just England and few no-name, brown-nosed countries. We need a president who is smart.

90% of the Republicans I know are NOT voting for Bush* in November. The other ten percent have their heads stuck up their ass! They need a glass belly button just to see where they're going. If you can't change your old man's mind in the next two months you better buy him a glass belly button.

[Zen Democrat]

20. Whoever would have been president would have struck back --

but with more effectiveness. Another president would have had Bin Laden by now. Another president wouldn't have squandered our moral capital on the failed Iraq invasion. Another president may have been awake enough to have foiled the 9/ll attacks.

The fact that the terrorists successfully struck during his administration is NOT a reason to return him to office. It's the reason to turn him out. He has failed this country on the war, on jobs, on health care, on the environment, on education, and on tax relief for the middle class.

Name one thing he's done except talk big and sacrifice nearly 1,000 service men and women for a failed Iraq regime change. Sure Saddam is gone, but what is ultimately going to replace him will be worse. It'll be a brutal dictator who is an Islamic fundamentalist.

Tell that to your dad.

[amjsjc]

21. Talk him through the war in Iraq...

Remind him:
1) Above all there was no link between Iraq and Osama. Above all we've distracted ourselves from the real war on terror.
2) By invading we've angered millions of Arabs who watch pictures of dead/injured/tortured Iraqis on TV. In a battle that ultimately comes down to winning hearts and minds were alienating the people we need to convince most.
3) Bush's leadership in the war itself shows that he's dangeriously incompetent. The administration ignored the advice of a top general who said it would require several hundred thousand troops to pacify Iraq. They threw out a carefully drafted State department plan to rebuild the country for no reason at all. And finally they went in on fantastically unrealistic expectations about us being greeted as liberators, who would immediately help the Iraqi's set up a government and then leave.
4) Reiterate that if Bush is handling the war in Iraq this badly do you really trust him with the war on terror?
5) If you live in a populious area you might also mention that the government is spending far more per head in Wyoming to combat terror than they are in NYC/DC etc.
Good luck.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Well, if you can't get him to vote for Kerry, talk him into Badnarik or

Nader.

---------------------------------------------------------------
And God told His children: "I love you. Play nice."

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[umtalal]

24. tell him not to worry, everyone is sticking it to the Arabs.

[Joanne98]

25. What do the Arabs have to do with recycling?

I never heard of that 9/11 side effect yet. what you can do is tell him about "the Apollo Project". It's on Kerry's web site. He didn't think of it but he supports it. A WAR ON OIL. Tell your dad, "Don't get mad get even". Tell him about the House of Bush/House of Saud.

[Only Me]

26. Something like...But Dad Osama Bin Ladin attacked us, Bush has had three

years to make this man pay for the thousands of people he killed and sheer caios that he thru this nation in. If shrub, I mean Bush, really cared about the people the victims, their families, our pride and our integrity as a fair and strong nation...shouldn't we have made the real criminal pay, not a phony stand in? And it has been proven time again that Saddam had nothing to do with the WTC bombings. How much wronger could he have been? It is a route to try at least. I use.. but why?.. alot when talking the Repubs to. Ask them to explain and ask how shrubs actions help anything. It is really easy because the real answers are right there anyway,
sometimes I think they just can't see them for all the webs
bush has created around his menagerie of lies. Good luck!!

[GaryL]

28. He must be well situated for retirement.

The pretender is going to kill social security dead given another 4 years. An mention Medicare to daddy. They plan to end that too and unless he's got about $2K/mth to make up for it he can look forward to long lines at the free clinic. I'm always amazed at how this fool is supported by those at or near their golden years. Senility I guess.

[BigTad]

30. Start wearing a bhurka around the house maybe?

[sandnsea]

31. Get "The New War"

Kerry's book from 1997 where he wrote about international crime, money laundering, guns, drugs and terrorism. He's been fighting this stuff since Iran/Contra and Noriega. He also knows who the real enemies are and all the ways to go after them, more than just militarily.

And ask him, if your neighbor to the right is a crack dealer, would you attack the neighbor to your left, even if the entire rest of the neighborhood told you you were making a mistake? Do you need the neighborhood to work together to get that crack dealer out of there, or do you really think you can do it all by yourself?

Bush has no idea what he's doing. Fallujah, why'd we go blustering in there and sacrifice our soldiers just to turn it back over to the Sunni's? How many soldiers did we lose fighting Sadr for the last year, only to allow him amnesty now? Name one military action Bush has taken that has had a successful result.

Don't debate him from the left, debate him on his own turf. He wants to fight, fine. Bush has proven he isn't up to the job.

[quaoar]

32. Ask your father about Fallujah

Ask him why he would support a man who humiliated the First Marine Expeditionary Force by sending it into Fallujah to avenge the mutilations of those four contractors and then -- after taking substantial casualties -- he pulled them back. Now, Fallujah is run by radical clerics who behead American collaborators.

Ask you father what he believes those Marines died for.

[gee double you bee]

33. hmm

No one else asked this so I'm betting it's rather obvious and just going over my head. But how does recycling stick it to the Arabs?