We've lost our edge.

[Guaranteed]

You know, during the primaries I couldn't see any possible way that we could lose this election. We had Bush on his heels, slamming him at will and tarnishing his reputation- and I thought, at the time, for good.

But we've allowed him to get it back. We, ALL OF US, not just Kerry, let up on the guy because we had to reconcile Kerry's positions with his voting record. Even our own minds have been tainted by the approach the campaign has taken, because we have to attune our talking points to Kerry's voting record. Bush didn't lie to us over a war he was hell-bent on starting, anymore. Now, he simply rushed into war without getting all the facts- but, of course, his motives were pure.

I can't believe that I'm having to think in those terms.

We compromised our integrity, and we lost our edge and our power. Now we have to beg for votes.

1. Isn't that what you can expect when you play to the center?

...That you would lose your edge, literally by definition?

[Guaranteed]

4. Yeah, basically.

But then of course the center could always take the "playing to the center" as an admission of guilt and weakness. Which is what typically happens.

[fearnobush]

2. Blaaa, wait a few weeks and see what happens.

[Lex]

3. Who's begging for votes?

What the hell?

Settle down, for crying out loud.

Kerry's going to be just fine and we will win in November if we all work hard at our local Democratic HQ and stop whining.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. Whaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Whaaa! Whaaaa! Whaaaa!!!

Two months out, an habitual outlier poll, and people are losing it.

I am starting to question whether this place is worth my time.

[Guaranteed]

8. Who said anything about a poll?

Take the post on its own merits.

[depakid]

6. Speak for yourself

I've been warning people on this board (and plenty of other places) about the stupidity of the stay "positive" don't "bash Bush" strategy since well before the converntion.

And taken a lot of shit for it, I might add.

[Stew225]

10. First of all, love the screen name, kid! Second of all,

we're all human. To say "stay positive" is one thing; hearing it is another; doing it is a whole different ball game. I have fought my entire life to "stay positive" and, well, I will let my post speak for itself.

I believe an optimist is someone not paying fucking attention! Democrats don't have the depth the repukes do. They can go two or more deep and spew their hatred better than anyone. On this populous it works! If what you're doing isn't working, you do something different. Playing to the center, i don't think, will be enough!

Now, stay positive!!

[depakid]

24. It's insanity to give Bush a pass

He's compiled the worst record in every conceivable area of any administration in history. Exposing that phoney for what he is should be and would be for a creative, media savvy campaign. Unfortunately, what we have here is the same top-down Democratic consultants of the type that ran Dukakis and Gore's campaign. Like bad managment in a company who won't listen to their street level employees, they are out of touch with what and how their customers are thinking and how they're trending- so they'e unable to effectively anticipate and react to events. Focus groups and consultants by themslves will get it wrong as often as not.

I wish I were wrong about this- but I've seen it all too many times- and been on the losing end because of it.

There's still time to turn it around, but only if the Kerry camp changes its methods... like Gore did when he turned began to turn his campaign around.

[gulfcoastliberal]

51. Great points

There's a reason we haven't been able to win - and weak campaigning, appearing as a bunch of sissys, and indecisiveness aren't appealing qualitites. It's now or never and if we keep going the way of Dukakis or Gore, history will repeat.

[sangh0]

7. The sky is falling

again

[Guaranteed]

9. Oh, I know, it's only 11 points...

in the most heavily polarized election we've had in years and years.

[sangh0]

18. No, it's ZERO POINTS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=738912#739259

[Guaranteed]

23. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Where are the NUMBERS on OUR side?

And why has Bush gotten his fucking reputation back???

[sangh0]

35. Of course it's not good enough FOR YOU

You never doubt FOX NEWS

[Guaranteed]

44. Me? Oh, I LOVE Fox News!!

Don't YOU??


Yeah! Fox News is the greatest!


It doesn't matter what I BELIEVE! It only matters how we're PERCIEVED! And these motherfuckers are getting away with saying that Bush is leading by 11 points!

Look! That fucker Wolf Blitzer is getting ready to report on that fucking poll AGAIN! AND THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE THEY KNOW WE'VE LOST OUR EDGE.

We're not attacking Bush, and when we do we're not doing it in the right way with the right people and the right passion. We're talking in bullshit terms, they know it, and that's why we're losing it.

[Stew225]

12. Figuratively, f'ing, speaking,

the sky may indeed be freaking falling!

[Worst Username Ever]

11. I am tired of the people who say that we should "stop the doom and gloom."

Every time a poll comes out, and it sucks, there are people on this board who just explain it away; polls are flawed, only likely voters, I don't like their methodology, the poll is wrong because my neighbor likes Kerry, etc. We are going to end up explaining away our loss right into the gutter.

[Mick Knox]

13. The same ones

Do the opposite when the polls favor our side.

Its so lame. I think these numbers are terrible.. 11 % change in a 50 50 race is unreal.

But I do think it will be temporary.

[Worst Username Ever]

14. Exactly

The same ones, when a poll comes out that FAVORS us, talk about how accurate the poll is, how we can't lose this election, how boosh is on his last legs and desperate, etc.

[Guaranteed]

16. Seriously.

Maybe...just MAYBE....this needs to be addressed.

[sangh0]

17. I'm tired of posters who believe the Republicans

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=738912#739259

[Tomee450]

59. And we also

hear that Kerry has a plan. Well if he has one I hope it's implemented soon. We also hear we can't go negative. The Republicans have been going negative and have won certain races. How can the treatment of Gore, Cleeland,McKinney be forgotten. I just thought Kerry's campaign would have been ready for these attacks.

[AlCzervik]

15. No matter what the polls show right now

remember that * can't control events on the ground. 60 mins has the awol piece coming up, Kitty Kelly has a book coming out, Iraq is a mess, Afghanistan is a mess, not that you really hear about Afghanistan anymore, and the one thing that is usually proved out...The republicans almost always overplay their hand.

[Monte Carlo]

19. Have you seen the Big Lebowski? Nothing is fucked, Dude.

I think a lot of people here just need to relax. Nothing has been lost, we are not yet fucked. Our minds have not been tainted, our integrity has not been compromised, we have not lost our edge. Christ, Kerry's big offensive has just started.

[Guaranteed]

25. It's my favorite movie.

I've seen it hundreds of times.

"Nothing is fucked? NOTHING IS FUCKED? The goddamned PLANE has crashed into the MOUNTAIN!"

Now, that may or may not be an exaggeration at this point, but we need to do something NOW.

Bush has his armor back. What happened to our fire???

[Monte Carlo]

27. When you say "we've lost our edge", do you mean "I've lost my edge"?

No offense, really, I just find that a lot of people tend to use the word "we" when they really mean "I". It sounds like you have some problems with Kerry.

[Guaranteed]

28. .......No.

No, I mean we.

We HAD the edge. We were lacing into the guy. Everyone knew he was a liar.

Now he's the strong commander in chief again.

WTF are you talking about?

[Monte Carlo]

30. He's not the strong commander-in-chief again.

That feeling will last all of 3 days, tops.

I said that because I get the distinct impression that you don't like how Kerry's campaign has played things so far, and it's hard to be excited about a candidate when you're really not excited.

[Guaranteed]

31. I praise Kerry all the time.

He has flashes of brilliance.

But we've really hobbled ourselves, here. Like I said, even WE, even Kerry's surrogates, aren't allowed to really blast Bush because of contradiction issues.

We've had to change our approach in the deepest respect, and we lost our edge.

[sangh0]

36. You are NOT being honest

You do NOT praise Kerry "all the time", and most of your Kerry comments are negative.

[Guaranteed]

40. No, I DO praise him all the time.

You only notice people that don't toe the line, though.

[Malva Zebrina]

20. I cannot imagine how this race is even close

it obviously should not be.
There are so many terrible things done by Bush and the most egregious is his lies to take our kids to Iraq to die for his lies

Nothing from anyone. Nothing and it is a complete shame onour country and I fault the Democrats for allowing ti to happen

Allowing him to get away with taking the votes away from his own citizens was the first attack on us, and yes, I think it was an attack by the Democrats. We, in spite of so many travelling to DC to protest at the inauguration, many from here in Maine travelling in a wicked snowstorm, and what recognition did we get?----nothing--from the Democrats--nothing

In fact Kerry told us to get over it.

I am mad as hell that we now see ourselves tied, or slightly behind this absolute maniac--and it should not be for any human being who has a sense of honor. We should be ahead by thirty points.

This was the first abandonment . There were more to follow over the past three and half years. And we now see ourselves in this ridiculous position of being "tied" with a maniac?

Something is wrong with the whole system.

[sangh0]

22. Just keep believing the republican lies

Why change now?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=738912#739259

[Malva Zebrina]

32. that was uncalled for

why do you need to resort to that if you are so confidant yourself?

Everybody knows they have to vote for Kerry. There is no doubt about it--we MUST vote for Kerry in order to get this bastard out. It is unfortunate that we did not challenge him in the beginning and imo that was a huge slap in the face to people who were outraged--a majority of people to be exact.

It is a fact that Kerry said we need to get over it. (Bush's coup)

That to me,that is defeatist. The whole response to it was defeatist and I will never understand why. There are few who maintained their integrity, but without any support from any Democrat, they faded away.

You know it as much as I do, if you kept up with it.

You seem to have as much fear as the freepers and trolls who are here.

It is the process here that I am angry with. I will vote for Kerry, but that does not excuse him as if he were a saint come to rescue us. He is the better of the two--but the first guy should never have been allowed to screw us like he has. and he has, I am sure you will agree.

I wonder why relative silence, except for a handful of honorable men and women.

[sangh0]

37. It's the truth

why do you need to resort to that if you are so confidant yourself?

I realize that there are some so-called progressives who like nothing more than to see people STOP spreading the truth, so that those who spread their lies will have a monopoly, but that's too bad on them.

The poll was a REPUBLICAN LIE, and you believe it.

You know it as much as I do, if you kept up with it.

I know that you left at least half of Kerry's quote regarding the ElectionTheft2000 in order to misportray his position. JUST LIKE THE REPUKES DO.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Malva Zebrina]

48. you may want to post some ot those quotes that support us in the coup

I distinctly remember Kerry telling us we should get over it.(the coup)

I distinctly remember few Democrats standing up against the coup.

I distinctly remember not much support at all for the people who had their votes cancelled


Where did Kerry stand up against that?

[sangh0]

52. I remember more than you

You are quoting out of context. Kerry said "Stop crying your teacups and go out and do something about it" or something like that.

Why did you leave half of the quote out?

[Malva Zebrina]

54. Please quote the quotes

where are the quotes where Kerry supported the protestors who were Protesting the coup? You said he did, so I assume you do have some actual evidence.

[sangh0]

56. Bait and switch

You complained about Kerry's statement, which came YEARS after ElectionTheft2000. Now that I showed how you misquoted Kerry, you are now demanding a different quote, in the hopes I'll forget about how you twisted his other quote.

Not buying

[Malva Zebrina]

62. No you have not showed me anything and you have not showed me

how I misquoted Kerry because I did not post any quote,---yet.

please quote the quotes that you said existed where Kerry supported people who protesting the coup in Florida and show me where he rose up to support those who were outraged at that coup.
Like the Black Caucus

[sangh0]

63. You are not telling the truth

In your post #48, you claim that Kerry said we should get over it, but you left out the part where Kerry said we should do something about it.

[Malva Zebrina]

64. Oh in that case, then please provide the quote where he said that and I

will take everything back

[sangh0]

65. Post #48

And it's not a quote, its a misquote

[catbert836]

21. Please, No

we don't need people complaining now, when the going gets rough. If anything, we need to work harder than ever in order to <b>win</b> this election. Pessimism gets us nowhere. I'd recommend some work on the campaign, right now. trust me, you'll feel better after doing that.

[Guaranteed]

26. That's what I'm doing!

We need to HIT this motherfucker! HARD! NOW!!!

On edit: Oh, that's right, can we DO that without contradicting ourselves??

[Snivi Yllom]

29. Are you really surprised?

I'm not.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. We never had an egde. We've been fractured and this is the cost

This is where you and I lock horns. Did you see the Repubs on TV this week? They have an EXTREME agenda..but is THAT what they presented? No...why? Because if they did, it wouldn't sell. The convention was presented as though THEY are the mainstream when THEY are not, but he gave a couple winks and nods to the farther side of the spectrum....

Now...on the OTHER side of things, AKA OUR side..one would think that if the two loudest anti-war candidates Dean and Kucinich could trust the ticket enough to lend their support...and in this I include their VOCAL support...neither has publicly slammed the ticket...then maybe their BASE would also LOOK for the winks and nods...of which there were many whether your point was anti-war or anti-corporate...unfortunately..on OUR side, a wink and nod does not appear to be enough. We may disagree on what it takes to get out of Iraq...but I think we'd be able to lock arms and get rid of the guy that got us there then put the SCREWS to him to get us out AFTER he is elected...

This post is not personal to you...it's an opportunity to look at THEIR dynamics wherein they hang together versus OURS wherein we tear each other apart.

[Guaranteed]

34. I'm not even talking about the base, here, though.

I'm talking about the undecided morons who just go with whoever they think is winning.

If you don't give the impression that you're winning, you lose a lot of votes.

This goes back to a kind of odd post I made a week or so ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=659221

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. No I got that was where you were coming from

but how does one give that impression with so many looking at the scoreboard instead of scoring points?

[Guaranteed]

45. It's weird social positioning shit.

I'm no sociologist, but I'd say whoever gets to attack with impunity, and make clears dents, is the one who is winning.

[oasis]

38. Farenheit 9/11 will help tremendously. The DVD is coming out in October.

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. No we don't. The RNC made fools of themselves this week. Veterans

are angry at Bush. Blue collar workers are angry at Bush. Polls? Nobody has polled me. He's lost. Bush has that is. :hi:

[AuntPatsy]

41. You cannot be serious! We have not given him any age back

at all, it is all the media spin that is attempting such, common, don't let them get to you too!

[lagniappe]

43. Yes, but it's good to realize that 60 days out and make corrections.

I think Kerry will make the necessary changes and become more aggressive. We've had a tough several weeks. Kerry has taken the best cheap shots the GOP could give. Now, let's see if Bush can take a little heat.

Mark my words. This is as good as it will get for Bush. Next week the GOP convention will be long forgotten.

[Guaranteed]

46. Please be right. nt

[WilliamPitt]

49. "We"? You got a mouse in your pocket or something?

[bushwakker]

50. Sounds like the Deans and the Greens are ready to pounce

you can't wait 'til Bush wins so you can start your Dean '08 crap.

[Julien Sorel]

53. Fortunately, Dean is a permanent joke in politics.

These guys who are dreaming about Dean in 08 -- and it's obvious who they are no matter how much they deny it -- are fooling themselves just as they did throughout Dean's campaign. They are even saying the same things "You've got to be angry, blah blah blah." But Dean is done. If Kerry doesn't win, it will be next to impossible to stop Edwards in 08, and if someone does stop Edwards, it sure isn't going to be old eeeeeeyah!

[bobbyboucher]

58. I think you should run.

You're a uniter.

[Guaranteed]

57. You betta ray-cog-nize.

Actually, no. I'd really rather get Bush the fuck out of the White House NOW so we actually have a country to elect another president for in 2008.

[bobbyboucher]

55. Fuck you!

How's that?

[Guaranteed]

60. Hmmm...not very convincing.

Sorry.

Did you read the post? What the hell are you so angry about?

[bobbyboucher]

61. I was joking. Why so defensive?

I will admit things are a little gloomy around here, but I don't think there is any merit to it. Can you think of one single person who changed their vote. Anyone you know or are aquainted with?

Kerry has every vote he needs in the bag.

[Guaranteed]

66. Oh...I get it now.

Took me awhile.