Help me out here. Did John Kerry "bring up Vietnam" initially?

[jdj]

I keep hearing this crap and I am not sure it is true. When he became a candidate they brought up his war protests, then one of their smears was the medals vs. ribbons things. This was a part of profiling candidates. Democrats were obsessed with the Iraq war vote with regards to Kerry, NOT Vietnam, so we wouldn't have brought it up. W's deserter rumors had been around and around on the internet, this topic never abated before or during the primaries, but if memory serves me correctly it was the repukes who began calling him Hanoi John, doctoring photos, and whining about the ribbons, all of which he was forced to respond to...Now they are saying he is the one who introduced Vietnam into the campaign...anyone with a clearer memory jump in here...

[Skuk]

1. SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP

enough vietnam, please.

[madmax]

4. Bill????....Bill O'Reilly is that you? ;-) n/t

[Skuk]

7. lol

it doesnt matter how much we talk about it, they will never believe the fact that kerry served and BUSH DIDNT they just don't want to see it that way, so lets just let it die.

[cheshire]

12. I think it's Bull O'Really

[jdj]

9. Don't be rude.

I have two draft-age nephews I love very much, and I base my assumption on the fact that Kerry would not draft them (or even invade Iran like Bush is planning to) based on the fact that he has seen combat, unlike W. The specific war is not important with regards to them, but Vietnam happens to be the war Kerry saw combat in.

I was hoping not to have to go back through all my files to find the first few cut and pastes on Kerry/Vietnam, but I may have to, since this seems to be a touchy subject, and I didn't want to upset anyone.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

2. Ok

their argument is exactly the same as this one:

"But she was wearing a short skirt and had all that makeup on. She was just ASKING for it."

You know what I tell people who say that?

HE'S A VETERAN, he SHOULD be proud of his service and he has EVERY RIGHT to talk about it. Are you trying to say veterans SHOULDN'T mention their service????

That usually shuts them up fast.

[jdj]

5. No, this is important, because I don't think he did, and

I would like to be able to say "No, you'uns brought it up."

It was part of his bio as a candidate, but they are the ones who made a federal case of it.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

8. They are mostly referring to the Dem convention

when he highlighted it.

But I still say he had every right and they sound like major assholes by saying he didn't.

Go search on his website maybe? Um......I don't know where you'd start with this....

[jdj]

11. No, long before this, long before this, right at the

beginning of his candidacy they started hounding him about the ribbons, well, it was the media (puke owned) that started the spin, but Kerry didn't make it an issue, I don't think.

[Dr Fate]

10. They were the 1st & only to LIE about anothers's combat service.

That is all you need to remember. Kerry has told the truth about his record, while Bush has lied about Kerry's record and his own sorry-ass record.

[stepnw1f]

6. Yup... the usual tactic

It makes them say SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP

[Dr Fate]

3. Reject the notion that it's Kerry's fault that Bush is lying about him

...that seems to be a new talking point- to make it seem like it is somehow Kerry's fault that Bush is now lying about his combat service in Vietnam.

My advice is to not buy into this and stick to the facts. Who cares who brought it up? What matters is the facts.

[jdj]

17. It matters to me.

Because I don't think it is true.

Not in my memory anyway.

I'm gonna have to go back through my files, I can see. If I find anywhere Kerry saying "George W. Bush is a yellow-bellied, lily-livered, coke-snorting, prep-school cheerleading, illegal abortion sponsoring, seque-crashing deserter" then I will post it here.

But I think the 'pugs were hammering Kerry from day one...the thing that makes it seem otherwise is because Dean had such a surge at first so they were trying to nail him.

[Dr Fate]

22. The main point is not who brought it up, but who is lying.

If Kerry did not bring it up 1st, then I suppose that would be interesting, but who would really care besides us?

The point to drive home is that Kerry is telling the truth about his record, so he has every right to bring it up.

Bush is lying about his service as well as Kerry's, no matter who brought it up 1st....

[sandnsea]

27. You can't separate Kerry & Vietnam

You just can't. It's too much of who he is. He served, he fought to stop the war, he fought for vet's benefits like Agent Orange & PTSD, he was a driving force in the POW/MIA commission, and later, Vietnam normalization. It's his life. It's one of the reasons I think so much of him. Who else do you know that kept working to make things right with Vietnam and our veterans 30 years after the war ended??? I don't know very many people with this kind of dedication, tenacity and committment. Yes he talks about Vietnam, how can he not?

[jdj]

28. They backed him into a corner with the VVAW smear

about assassination plots. They made it an issue and a federal case.

He responded to it, and otherwise it would have been much more in the background.

[librechik]

13. Nope-Rove baited him by going around for MONTHS saying

Dems/Kerry are weak on defense. Of course the best response to that slur is to whip out your big shiny military record, or even ANY military record, compared to Bush. Right?

That's why we picked Kerry, though we could have gone with Wes (sigh), They probably would have dug up (or made up) something on him too, They're all about slander, not service. Playing fair doesn;t work with these people; they have droit de seigneur.

[Guaranteed]

15. Yup.

We probably should have been positioned on the issues instead of trying to hide.

[pacalo]

26. They were already starting on Wes Clark...

They enlisted the help of jealous-minded, ambitious, WH bootlickers in the Pentagon to give misleading statements about Wes Clark. They gave just enough information, short of anything specific, to cause suspicion against Clark. When the Republicans have nothing against someone, they make up lies & run with them.

And I agree with a post somewhere up above that said if a person served our country in a war, why shouldn't they be proud of it & mention it? It's part of that person's character, & it's very indicative of a man who will send our men & women to war as a last resort. It is the chickenhawks who favor war; they have no experience from which to draw, so they can't appreciate the sacrifice put upon those who are put into harm's way.

Grrrrrr!

[Guaranteed]

14. Well, we were hearing about it during the primary.

So...I don't know who brought it up, but it wasn't the Bushes.

[Dr Fate]

16. Yes- we should limit everything we say to stuff the GOP cant lie about!

Which leaves us with...well, let me think about that one....

[Guaranteed]

18. ???? nt

[jdj]

20. Nothing, they lie about what you don't say as well.

How do you know a republican is lying? His lips are moving.

[seabeyond]

19. repug strength miltary, we are in war

ergo kerry had to show he stood strong with military. yes he used it. regardless lies are lies. swift board ads immoral and wrong, no justifying and validating. what is it rove said,............ by the time we are done with him they wont know what side he fought in

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

21. Point of fact

Every poll including the recent Time/CNN poll says only 1 in 3 people believe the Swift boat lies

[TA]

23. The Repugs started the Vietnam issue in April 2004

The reason I remember the date is because I submitted an article to my newspaper in April about it. Prior to April the Repugs were saying to Kerry if he didn't have anything to hide about his Vietnam service why won't he release his records. Suggesting he had something he didn't want out. In early April he released all his Military records and posted them on his web site. My comment to the newspaper was that while Kerry displayed his records we were still waiting for Bush to release his.

[jdj]

25. VVAW assassination plot smear started mid-March, see post 24

n/t

[jdj]

24. Here's what I found if anyone cares:

The first stories I saved came out in March, they were saying that John Kerry's group Vietnam Veterans Against the War, was in the business of assassination plots.

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/8232015.htm

then they come up and say that the records of the FBI investigations into the aforementioned assassination plots were stolen, and that it was politically motivated
(I had two links for this story, cnn and washington post,but they have been taken down)

at this point McCain and Hagel come out in Kerry's defense, because Cheney is going around like a rabid dog saying Kerry and dems are weak on defense like an above postor mentioned.

Then the Moonie times puts out a story saying his service records are suspicious BECAUSE HE NEVER MISSED A SINGLE DAY.

"Intelligent, mature and rich in educational background and experience, Ens Kerry is one of the finest young officers I have ever met and without question one of the most promising," wrote Capt. Allen Slifer, Mr. Kerry's commanding superior aboard the USS Gridley before going into combat.
But some veterans say his record is too good to be true.
"Superhuman" is how Ray Waller, a combat medic in the Marines, described Mr. Kerry's record of awards.
"I don't remember anybody getting three Purple Hearts and leaving, even within six or eight months," said Mr. Waller, who as a medic was responsible for determining whether injuries warranted Purple Hearts. "And if they did, it was very, very rare — not to mention the Silver Star and the Bronze Star."
He also was surprised that Mr. Kerry never missed duty for the wounds that earned him Purple Hearts. Although Mr. Kerry has said one of the injuries caused him to lose two days of service, there is no evidence he ever lost time for any injuries.
"If he's got shrapnel in his buttocks, he's going to lose time," Mr. Waller said. "It would be impossible to have three wounds and never have a loss of time."

If this doesn't prove Kerry isn't the one who made it an issue, I don't know what will

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040422-121900-7315r.htm

then the Alex Polier smear starts at the end of April...

edit: the sun herald article mentions the ribbon throwing demonstration, both articles posted a day after Kerry posted his records on website, which he did on March 18. They were already after him about VVAW and the ribbons, which proves my point, THEY brought this up, they were laying in wait for him with the FBI docs, and when that didn't sell they went with the ribbons, and when people said "who gives a fuck" they started in on the medals and the wounds etc.