Are the Swift Boat Liars finally done?

[ButterflyBlood]

Poll question: Are the Swift Boat Liars finally done?

I think everyone's just sick of them and they'll quickly fade away.

[LTR]

1. I think their fifteen minutes are up

Now they're just beating a dead horse.

The only ones still paying attention to them are the RW lemmings that wish it were true.

[LoZoccolo]

2. /Most/ people are sick of them.

However, I think that there'll be this like 5% of people, if not more, for which they'll stick. They'll hear the initial rumors, and not hear much of the debunking, or even if they hear 11 out of 12 debunkings, that one thing that wasn't debunked will stick with them.

[AlinPA]

3. Not yet, but fading. However: Rove has other tools:

We have all the issues that people really care about, and they are using only Terror (fear) and Smear.
They have some tools that we don't, and we need strategies to deal with each. All require working on the ground, registering voters. (Note in PA the deadline is Oct 4)

Other tools that Rove has yet to use:
1. Orange/red alerts
2. Drop Cheny & pick McCain/Guliani
3. "Getting" OBL
4. Full power of the broadcast and print media
(only running at about 1/4 throttle now)

[grannylib]

9. Or Cheney will have a heart attack and be replaced by McCain

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

4. No

They're going to ride that horse till it dies or carries them across the finish line.

[Spiffarino]

5. They'll flog it as long as they can keep it running

Gawd how I hate those bastards.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shockingelk]

10. I don't think they'll be able to

There's an official Navy investigation into Kerry's medals - all and more that the SBVT wanted.

Apparently, Judicial Watch found a paperwork error in Kerry's record which lists a Silver Star with Combat V. Silver Stars never have Combat V as it's redundant.

So if the Navy confirms this, they will not only have settled the SBVT's baseless charges, but uncovered an obvious paperwork error that the SBVT's allegedly thorough investigation somehow missed.

That will show they never really investigated anything, but made stuff up off the tops of their heads.

[Bouregat]

7. Quite honestly, I wish we'd never started the National Guard thing

on Bush. We weren't doing it while Dean was the front runner. We should never have started in on Bush in this way. Kerry should have known there could be a lot of people who witnessed those events who might dispute them.
I can understand Kerry saying he was in Viet Nam, but to make it the whole centerpiece of his campaign was SO ill-advised. He didn't have to do it.

[saracat]

12. What are you saying?

Are you attempting to blame Kerry for bringing this on himself? Are you seriously blaming the victim here? He ought not to have given the opposition a reason to lie about him? No one disputes those events.The only ones that do weren't there or suddenly ckhanged their story as the result of a $40 million government contract. As for Dean, don't even go there and the national guard story which has NOT been bid was out there in 2000. I wonder about this post!

[Yupster]

15. Swift Boat Vets were coming

regardless.

What's got them on the warpath is Kerry's 1971 testimony.

Unless he repudiated himself, they were going to come after him regardless of what Kerry said or did.

[DieboldMustDie]

21. No witness to Bush's "service" in the Alabama Guard...

has come forward yet, though there have been a couple of fairly significant rewards offered if they do. :shrug:

[VOX]

34. "Viet Nam...the whole centerpiece of {Kerry's} campaign."

Sorry, but this is a major, major right-wing talking point, this "centerpiece" business. Kerry has certainly highlighted his service, but it became front-page news only after the Swift Boat Liars were boosted up by the corporate media again and again.

Kerry's campaign has been about a lot more than a Vietnam "centerpiece." Now, if only we could get the media to report on it.

[Spiffarino]

40. Freeper. EOD.

I doubt anything you've ever done was done "quite honestly." Now piss off.

[Leilani]

8. I think you are all mistaking the power of the swiftboats...

People who are reasonable, & follow the news KNOW that kerry went & served honorably, & Bush did not.

I think the 1st commercial has been debunked, & lies about Kerry s medals have been neutralized.

But the damage that remains is his testimony to Congress, while there were still troops fighting & being held as POWs.

I went back & read his entire testimony in full, not only the remarks played in the commercial, which has been criticized as taking his remarks out of context. His testimony in full, however, is just as damaging as the remarks played in the commercial.

The campaign s response has been, well he said these stories were related to him.But his entire testimony validates them, & that angers people.

And it is then used to portray Dems as anti-military, etc.& to play to the perception that Dems are weak on defense.

[ItsThePeopleStupid]

11. I read his testimony too

First, why would anyone listen to people who are proven liars?

Second, even their ad about Kerry's testimony is a lie. He was not accusing every soldier of torture; he was repeating what some soldiers had told him, and the context was he was DEFENDING them, because they were being put in situations where it was next to impossible NOT to violate the Geneva Conventions (free fire zones, e.g.). IOW, he was criticizing the way the war was being fought by the planners, and by extension, the war itself.

I wish everyone would listen to his testimony.

[Spiffarino]

41. I've read the 1971 testimony

If you paid careful attention, you would notice that it is a blistering indictment of military and government policies, not the actions of the soldiers themselves. He was clear that the policies in place at that time led to such atrocities. Read it again. Sloooowwwly.

[catbert836]

13. Kerry's paying less attention to them

plus, everyone just wants to forget Vietnam and they're not letting us.

[raysr]

14. Pat Buchanan on Russerts show

a few minutes ago "Kerry is damaged goods"(Swift Boat Liars).

[koopie57]

16. This makes me so angry

that in this country people can lie enough about a person that they eventually become "damaged goods". How can we be the land of the free if liars can damage a person to such a degree without being held accountable. I guess I'm just so sickened by the ugliness we are seeing in the republicans and all the hate being generated by lies and stupidity. I keep thinking about that Twilight Zone episode with the bomb shelter. People were so scared that they were fighting with all their neighbors and friends to get into the shelter. Afterwards, when the crisis was over, they couldn't even look at one another. I can't help but feel this is what we will be seeing when all is said and done. Does anyone else think that * will loose it during the debates?

[Yupster]

17. I don't think so

I read somewhere their fundraising is up significantly.

All these groups should go away.

I like the idea of each candidate having to say he approves the content of the ad.

All these other groups should shut up in my opinion.

[Zen Democrat]

18. From what I hear .. The POWs for Bush are next.

Going to claim that the North Vietnamese used Kerry as a tool to get them to admit war crimes.

However, John McCain has preemptively said he never heard the name John Kerry while he was a POW.

Nevertheless, it's coming.

[countmyvote4real]

19. Lying is pathological for these SBVs and the * GOP.

“Dear Leader” and his flying monkey goon squads can’t abide by any standard of truth unless they invented it. Safeguard your books, etc. Real history will be the next target of the war on terra.

[sue4fun]

20. I heard this from a vet who is upset with Kerry, any answer for him

Not much into the military stuff. But this guy said the swift boat guys for Kerry are being asked if they served there 12 months. If so what do they think of Kerry finding loopholes to leave 8 months earlier then they did.

I had no answer but cannot answer anything military. My thought was this could be used to hurt our side.

How would you answer that.

[DieboldMustDie]

22. Kerry volunteered for swift boat duty...

one of the most dangerous jobs he could have taken on. The rule, as I understand it, was 3 Purple Hearts and you get a ticket home. The 4½ months he spent in Vietnam was 4½ months longer than Bush, who specifically requested that he not be sent overseas.

[saracat]

28. Not 4 1/2 months.

He served TWO terms of duty in Vietnam. He finally hit back with that the other day.I am so tired of hearing 4 and 1/2 mos.

[Only Me]

23. I guess I would ask him, why he isn't more angry at Bush. Bush/Cheney

never served 1 day in military conflict of any kind. Not that that is a crime to not serve, but the rip apart someone who did is
an out and out disgrace. But they can easily send our young men and women, husbands, sons, mothers, wives and daughters to Iraq to fight against a country that didn't do anything to us, in the name of humanitarianism. All the while he let a terrorist come here and kill thousands of us on our own land and let him go. Talk about soft on terrorism. And now less, that 60 days into an election thousand dead an wounded, billions of dollars in jobs and revenue squandered, and the headlines read..."Are we close to catching Osama bin Ladin?? How convenient. Now let me see...who should he be more angry at?

[sue4fun]

30. Thanks for the input and I tried it

My internet was down and could not say thanks for the answers. I used them but they said no vet they knew about this loophole to get out of nam and he did not stay with his men. How can you trust him.

I do not understand military stuff. I do not understand why something so many years ago is being brought up. Clinton never did that. He made a decision not to go and stood behind it.

I sure do not understand all this and it only has seem to hurt us.

If you can think of what to answer let me know. They also said it was another example of rich white guys get out of their duty while the poor and minorities stayed the whole 12 months.

It is very confusing and why dig back all those years and many people were not alive and have no clue

[oasis]

33. Kerry served two terms of duty after requesting to go there. "Send Me"

that was his attitude. He joined, he served. Your vet friend should question how rich, frat boy Bush found a "loophole" to get out of going altogether.

[Only Me]

44. I was a teen during the Vietnam time and even I knew, if you got wounded

three times you came home. My uncle lost part of his arm and he wasn't their 3 months. My family had two uncles and 3 cousins to go to nam and more distantly. Only 2 returned, 1 injured. I am deep in repug territory an I have yet to meet one vet that has slammed Kerry for his service. Your 'friend' is just a Repug..no matter what he says. Because if he wasn't, he would definitely be more angry at 'flyboy gone AWOL' than somebody that risked life and limb for even one day. And I don't think getting shot and have a land mine explode sending metal debris into your body is considered a...'loophole'.

[oasis]

32. Two terms of duty. Did your vet friend used the word "loopholes"?

To what was he refering?

[Democat]

35. I would tell this "friend" to seek help!

Talking to yourself isn't always bad, but it wouldn't hurt to get it checked out. :)

[Spiffarino]

42. I would answer that

You are a freeptard. GFY.

[FlaIndie]

24. still seeing their ads here in Florida

Actually, at least here, it seemed like it took a while for them to show up. I just saw an ad from them last night. Makes me want to puke. I can at least stomach the ads that have an inkling of truth to them, even if they bash Kerry.

[AuntPatsy]

25. Oh they might not be being as highlighted in the media as

before, but their are those that still take their accusations as Gospel, but in my opinion, not enough to believe Bush to be better than Kerry...

Its no big deal to talk about them on here, they are still and will be continued to be taken as part of the Republican smear campaign until the election comes to pass...

They left a smell, but any odor will eventually be lost after a time. It's done, they did they what they set out to do and they wont be held accountable, but soon they will be forgotten.

It just takes time..we do have short memories, its in our nature..

[mellowinman]

26. We'll hear about them all through Kerry's presidency.

Right wing fucksticks are Right wing fucksticks.

We can't just surgically remove all their adams apples.

So I guess we have to continue to hear them.

Let's just hope Kerry dismantles their biggest weapon:

The idiotic idea that they aren't a bunch of criminal motherfuckers.

[a new day]

27. Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny

You can just click your heels, you've got to put a stake through their hearts.

[Dem2theMax]

29. Their book-o-lies is number one at both Amazon and B&N online.

We need to do some major DU book buying, starting with Senator Graham's book, 'Intelligence Matters.' And instead of Kitty Kelly's book, Jon Stewart has one coming out September 20th. So get your orders in! Knock the Swifties right outta their boats. :evilgrin:

[depakid]

31. These ads will play and play

for the next two months. Get used to them.

In fact, prepare for worse than that.

[bklyncowgirl]

36. These attack ads worked. Expect more expect worse. Lies work.

I am completely disgusted by this. The Bush campeign will keep running these ads and the right wing media will keep churning out these lies for the simple reason that they have worked. The mainstream media with a few honorable exceptions will let these bastards go unchallanged. Swift Boat Veterans has turned the campeign around in the space of a few weeks. Can it turn back, yes but time is starting to run out. Kerry's a closer but he damn well better be sitting on Secretariat and be prepared to do some dirty work himself or he's dead.

[Shopaholic]

37. You know the old saying about how you don't stop with something

if it's working? Well, the SBV ads worked. No doubt so will the upcoming moveonforamerica.org spots (designed to play off of MoveOn.org's name). These people are beneath contempt and they will use any means necessary to get what they want--* in office for another four years. I live for the day when Dems wake up, smell the coffee, and get into the game and use the Repug playbook to win. Yes, we're better than that, yes, it's beneath us, but we can either play by their rules and win or take the high ground and lose.

[rasputin1952]

38. Just a quick recount off the top of my head...

The Swift Boat Liars for Bush:

1. None of the vets in the 1st spot were w/Kerry that day.
2. The Dr. that "treated Kerry, never did.
3. All but one of the vets w/Kerry that day refute the accusations.
4. The Cmdr. of the boat next to Kerry's on the day in ?, states that Kerry's version is the truth.
5. This is financed by wealthy bush supporters.
6. Rassmussen was saved by Kerry.
7. There are far too many inconsistencies in the SBV's stories, especially from those at the top that authorized the awards.
8. Kerry may, or may not have been wounded by shrapnel from an M-79 grenade, who knows?
9. The official records stand, Kerry was there, bush was not.

Oh yeah, the former Lt. Gov of TX came out and said he was responsible for getting bush into the ANG at the behest of Poppy; and a few others benefited from this individuals largess as well. Of course, all of the beneficiaries were wealthy sons from well off families. That just seems Soooo Republican...:puke:

Bottom line, it took the NY Times and Washington Post, virtually no time at all to refute these guys with all kinds of evidence. The ship they are sailing is full of leaks, and sinking quickly. They put a smear on all who have served this nation since its inception, and they have no shame. Kerry, in his testimony to Congress, stated what he had heard from first person accounts. If Congress had looked closely at the allegations, they would have found that My Lai was not an isolated incident. Kerry was NOT blaming the soldiers, sailors, airmen or Marines that were there, he was blaming the policies that got us to that point.

That is just off the top of my head, w/o much caffeine to stimulate me...The SBV's are full of themselves, and are shills for the administration. They need to find integrity.....:(

[Spiffarino]

43. Doesn't matter

Few undecided voters read newspapers or watch much news. They sit in front of the TV watching "Friends" reruns, Jerry Springer, and "Survivor."

Rove understands this very well. He is successful at spreading lies because he firmly believes that undecided voters are stupid. He knows that here is virtually no fact-checking done by most of these people. That's why it's so vital for Kerry and his supporters to go on TV and answer the attacks, then immediately go on the offensive.

If you are serious about getting * out of office, put your money where your mouth is and send cash to MoveOn, the DNC, and anywhere else it might make a difference. Talk up Kerry to your friends, family, folks on the bus, etc. Debunk the lies.

[tenpinjohn]

39. Start Calling Chicken-Hawks Vietnam Girlie Men

long enough and loud enough and we can drown out the Swift Boat Pukes:evilfrown: