Before anyone else posts Dean/Kerry stuff, read this.

[madfloridian]

I have tried very hard, just because I really care about my country, not to be critical of Kerry. I have several times posted forum nanny type threads asking Deaniacs to lay off posts like we are seeing today. Dean is NOT the nominee. He is still working hard though.

I have read some of the ugliest posts today, and they have in an ugly way attacked Dean supporters in general and Dean himself viciously. He has been called a coward, a liar, a loser, and many other things. I am not going to even try to make peace anymore.

I AM going to post the primary schedule again in text form. I am going to put a line across it when Dean dropped out, and I would like for everyone to quit calling him a loser. This chart makes it very clear that our nominee was chosen by the very early states, very small states, not representative of the larger coastal states. It is not right. It would be nice to have people quit calling us losers.

I highlighted the ones in March because that is when Florida, New York, and California had their primaries. Dean was out by then. He was not campaigning much after NH either. Winners should be gracious to losers, even if MOST of us got no chance to vote.

January 13th, 2004 District of Columbia Presidential Primary (Closed)
January 19th, 2004 Iowa Democratic Caucuses
The rally, better known as the scream, was played hundreds and hundreds of times. Dean was declared crazy by the media.

January 27th, 2004 New Hampshire Presidential Primary (Closed)

February 3rd, 2004 Arizona Presidential Preference Election (Closed)
Delaware Democratic Presidential Primary (Closed)
Missouri Presidential Primary (Open)
New Mexico Democratic Caucuses
North Dakota Democratic Caucuses

Oklahoma Presidential Primary (Closed)
South Carolina Democratic Presidential Preference Primary

February 7th, 2004 Michigan Democratic Presidential Caucuses
Washington Democratic Caucuses

February 8th, 2004 Maine Democratic Caucuses

February 10th, 2004 District of Columbia Republican Presidential Preference Caucuses
Tennessee Presidential Primary (Open)
Virginia Democratic Presidential Primary (Open)

February 14th, 2004 District of Columbia Democratic Caucuses
Nevada Democratic Caucuses

The DAY before WI Dean's campaign manager Steve Grossman left him and went directly to Kerry VERY PUBLICLY.

February 17th, 2004 Wisconsin Presidential Primary (Open)
Dean dropped out on the 18th, but he was no longer actively campaigning even then.
The state below the line never got to vote for a full slate of candidates at all. It should not be that way. None of our guys should be called losers!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

February 24th, 2004 Hawaii Democratic Caucuses
Dean was in Hawaii fundraising for the Democratics the week he dropped out officially. He put his own feelings aside.

Idaho Democratic Caucuses
Utah Democratic Presidential Primary

March 2nd, 2004 California Presidential Primary (Modified Closed)
Connecticut Presidential Primary (Closed)
Georgia Presidential Preference Primary (Open)
Maryland Presidential Primary (Closed)
Massachusetts Presidential Primary
Minnesota Democratic Caucuses
Minnesota Republican Caucuses
New York Presidential Primary (Closed)
Ohio Presidential Primary (Open)
Rhode Island Presidential Preference Primary
Vermont Presidential Primary (Open)

March 9th, 2004 Florida Presidential Primary (Closed)
Louisiana Presidential Preference Election
Mississippi Presidential Primary (Open)
Texas Presidential Primary (Open)
Washington Republican Caucuses

March 13th, 2004 Kansas Democratic Caucuses

March 16th, 2004 Illinois Presidential Primary (Open)

March 20th, 2004 Alaska Democratic Caucuses
Wyoming Democratic County Caucuses

March 23rd, 2004 Utah Republican Caucuses

April 13th, 2004 Colorado Democratic Caucuses
Colorado Republican Caucuses

April 27th, 2004 Pennsylvania Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 4th, 2004 Indiana Presidential Primary (Open)
North Carolina Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 8th, 2004 Wyoming Republican State Convention
Arizona Republican State Convention

May 11th, 2004 Nebraska Presidential Primary (Open)
West Virginia Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 15th, 2004 Wyoming Democratic State Caucus

May 18th, 2004 Arkansas Presidential Primary (Open)
Kentucky Presidential Primary (Closed)
Oregon Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 25th, 2004 Idaho Presidential Primary (Open)

June 1st, 2004 Alabama Presidential Primary (Open)
New Mexico Republican Primary
South Dakota Presidential Primary (Closed)

June 8th, 2004 Montana Presidential Primary (Open)
New Jersey Presidential Primary

[madfloridian]

1. Just one kick about the loser Dean. Sick of it, fed up.

I have tried very hard, just because I really care about my country, not to be critical of Kerry. I have several times posted forum nanny type threads asking Deaniacs to lay off posts like we are seeing today. Dean is NOT the nominee. He is still working hard though.

I have read some of the ugliest posts today, and they have in an ugly way attacked Dean supporters in general and Dean himself viciously. He has been called a coward, a liar, a loser, and many other things. I am not going to even try to make peace anymore.

I AM going to post the primary schedule again in text form. I am going to put a line across it when Dean dropped out, and I would like for everyone to quit calling him a loser. This chart makes it very clear that our nominee was chosen by the very early states, very small states, not representative of the larger coastal states. It is not right. It would be nice to have people quit calling us losers.

I highlighted the ones in March because that is when Florida, New York, and California had their primaries. Dean was out by then. He was not campaigning much after NH either. Winners should be gracious to losers, even if MOST of us got no chance to vote.

January 13th, 2004 District of Columbia Presidential Primary (Closed)
January 19th, 2004 Iowa Democratic Caucuses
The rally, better known as the scream, was played hundreds and hundreds of times. Dean was declared crazy by the media.

January 27th, 2004 New Hampshire Presidential Primary (Closed)

February 3rd, 2004 Arizona Presidential Preference Election (Closed)
Delaware Democratic Presidential Primary (Closed)
Missouri Presidential Primary (Open)
New Mexico Democratic Caucuses
North Dakota Democratic Caucuses

Oklahoma Presidential Primary (Closed)
South Carolina Democratic Presidential Preference Primary

February 7th, 2004 Michigan Democratic Presidential Caucuses
Washington Democratic Caucuses

February 8th, 2004 Maine Democratic Caucuses

February 10th, 2004 District of Columbia Republican Presidential Preference Caucuses
Tennessee Presidential Primary (Open)
Virginia Democratic Presidential Primary (Open)

February 14th, 2004 District of Columbia Democratic Caucuses
Nevada Democratic Caucuses

The DAY before WI Dean's campaign manager Steve Grossman left him and went directly to Kerry VERY PUBLICLY.

February 17th, 2004 Wisconsin Presidential Primary (Open)
Dean dropped out on the 18th, but he was no longer actively campaigning even then.
The state below the line never got to vote for a full slate of candidates at all. It should not be that way. None of our guys should be called losers!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

February 24th, 2004 Hawaii Democratic Caucuses
Idaho Democratic Caucuses
Utah Democratic Presidential Primary

March 2nd, 2004 California Presidential Primary (Modified Closed)
Connecticut Presidential Primary (Closed)
Georgia Presidential Preference Primary (Open)
Maryland Presidential Primary (Closed)
Massachusetts Presidential Primary
Minnesota Democratic Caucuses
Minnesota Republican Caucuses
New York Presidential Primary (Closed)
Ohio Presidential Primary (Open)
Rhode Island Presidential Preference Primary
Vermont Presidential Primary (Open)

March 9th, 2004 Florida Presidential Primary (Closed)
Louisiana Presidential Preference Election
Mississippi Presidential Primary (Open)
Texas Presidential Primary (Open)
Washington Republican Caucuses

March 13th, 2004 Kansas Democratic Caucuses

March 16th, 2004 Illinois Presidential Primary (Open)

March 20th, 2004 Alaska Democratic Caucuses
Wyoming Democratic County Caucuses

March 23rd, 2004 Utah Republican Caucuses

April 13th, 2004 Colorado Democratic Caucuses
Colorado Republican Caucuses

April 27th, 2004 Pennsylvania Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 4th, 2004 Indiana Presidential Primary (Open)
North Carolina Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 8th, 2004 Wyoming Republican State Convention
Arizona Republican State Convention

May 11th, 2004 Nebraska Presidential Primary (Open)
West Virginia Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 15th, 2004 Wyoming Democratic State Caucus

May 18th, 2004 Arkansas Presidential Primary (Open)
Kentucky Presidential Primary (Closed)
Oregon Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 25th, 2004 Idaho Presidential Primary (Open)

June 1st, 2004 Alabama Presidential Primary (Open)
New Mexico Republican Primary
South Dakota Presidential Primary (Closed)

June 8th, 2004 Montana Presidential Primary (Open)
New Jersey Presidential Primary

[Dookus]

2. I know you didn't post those threads...

I have no ill will toward you on this subject. But it *IS* insulting and hurtful to US when people post that Dean would be winning now if he were only the nominee.

As to your oft-repeated claim that he dropped out early - yes we know. A lot of candidates did. I don't hear Graham or Mosely-Braun or even Clark supporters complaining about that. Only Dean supporters.

[madfloridian]

3. Well, they were not leading by 20 points. Call him loser, I complain.

I don't complain unless someone calls us names and makes fun of Dean. I will always step in when we are insulted.

I don't think these posts should be posted, but I do not think Howard Dean, who is working his butt off to get this party off its own rear end.....should ever be called a loser.

3 of his Dean Dozen were winners in the primary in FL. Rob, in Tampa, at one time would not have had a chance against his Bush buddy opponent, but now he does with Dean's name behind him.

It is just insulting to call us or him names. We are here to stay in one form or another, and it is just not good to be ugly.

I have lost friends among the Dean supporters trying to be fair and balanced on this thing. I am not going to do that anymore, Dookus.
Not after the insults hurled here today.

[Leilani]

5. Do not take it so hard....

People on anonymous message boards post mean, insulting, & also untruthful posts. They say things they would never say to your face.

Sometimes, very rarely, we get inspired by a political candidate. That happened with the Dean people. He touched them in a special way, & when lies or smears against that person are posted, you take it personally. Try not to.

Politicians develop very thick skins; they have to, or they would not survive. Sometimes the political fighting bothers supporters more than the candidate, himself.

Be happy you found a candidate who moved you so much; it happens rarely. And be proud of the fact that Dean transformed politics in 2004. He made a huge difference; he encouraged Dems to fight back.

[Andromeda]

24. There are a lot of people on DU who aren't

very polite. In fact, some of them are downright mean. Try to ignore the hurtful comments and just concern yourself with now and what we need to do to win this election. Don't waste your precious energy on a few inconsiderate, thoughtless individuals.

I know you are very involved in this election and have worked very hard for the Democratic party.

When Dean lost I was crushed also but I tried to follow his example and put all my support behind Kerry. I thought that was very classy of Dean considering the difficulty he encountered.

It couldn't have been easy for him but he rose above it and is a dedicated, effective and loyal member of the Democratic party. He is not only committed to getting Kerry elected but he's committed to getting Democrats elected throughout the nation for senate and house seats.

I believe Dean energized the Democratic party and we are lucky to have him on our side.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

25. LOL

I'm cracking up. Being accused of oversensitivity by a Deaniac... I can't catch my breath.... *guffaw*

[democratreformed]

7. Let me oblige you... As a former (and actually, still) Clark supporter,

I, too, often got very upset at Clark being called a loser. Not only that, but his character was maligned on this board numerous times AFTER he left the race.

It has been so nice these past few months b/c I haven't seen the hateful stuff about Clark that used to be here. I am usually very careful NOT to post anything on here comparing Kerry to Clark. It is irrelevant and it invites a flame fest against a man that I hold very dear.

I know how madfloridian feels. It would be real nice if others could show someone the error of their ways (saying Dean would be better than Kerry, etc) by doing something besides attacking Dean. I know that's probably hard to do for people who had Kerry as a first choice, but, hey, we can dream, huh?

[JI7]

12. Dookus did not support Kerry, he supported Clark

[seabeyond]

6. i was supporting kerry, and i lOvEd dean and still do

i havent read any of those threads that you talk but for anyone to be bashing dean, shame on them. i love dean. he is simply awesome and he gave this country, all of us a wonderful gift in running. he was the first to have the courage to speak against, actual words against bush. and he did it alone for a long time. he did that. he got the dems together and he got them excited.

so a hooray to dean and a quick mind, witty sense of humor and so straight talking and easy to hear. honest. just an honest man. i think he could have gone into the south and really shaken things up

have i said i love dean

but we have good dudes, i really love wes clarke too, and glad sharpton was in there, and not a kucinich fan, but totally respect him

[Sugarbleus]

8. With the exception of Joe, I LOVED all of our candidates....

I love them still. I appreciate everything they did and do...all of their contributions. Each one a special bright talent. I hope they don't give up and hope to see them go on to run again.

These candidates are part of "Us".

Some folks just like to nit pick when they don't have anything else to bitch about... life goes on.

I salute all of our Candidates :toast:

SB :hug:

[mandyky]

9. God, please get me thru Nov. 3rd

without my saying something bad...

Some of these people would probably be happier if Dean just went back to VT. I for one am glad he hasn't.

[WillyT]

10. Yep... If We Somehow Manage To Lost This Nov., I Wouldn't Want...

the words "...at least Kerry was able to beat Dean." hangin around MY neck!!!

Jesus...

[madfloridian]

11. 37 states did not get to vote for Dean. Don't call us losers.

I only post this when people start in on us.

Reposting with further notes. I don't know when Clark dropped out, but I think we should start waking up when so few states get to pick the nominee.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"I have tried very hard, just because I really care about my country, not to be critical of Kerry. I have several times posted forum nanny type threads asking Deaniacs to lay off posts like we are seeing today. Dean is NOT the nominee. He is still working hard though.

I have read some of the ugliest posts today, and they have in an ugly way attacked Dean supporters in general and Dean himself viciously. He has been called a coward, a liar, a loser, and many other things. I am not going to even try to make peace anymore.

I AM going to post the primary schedule again in text form. I am going to put a line across it when Dean dropped out, and I would like for everyone to quit calling him a loser. This chart makes it very clear that our nominee was chosen by the very early states, very small states, not representative of the larger coastal states. It is not right. It would be nice to have people quit calling us losers.

I highlighted the ones in March because that is when Florida, New York, and California had their primaries. Dean was out by then. He was not campaigning much after NH either. Winners should be gracious to losers, even if MOST of us got no chance to vote.

January 13th, 2004 District of Columbia Presidential Primary (Closed)
January 19th, 2004 Iowa Democratic Caucuses
The rally, better known as the scream, was played hundreds and hundreds of times. Dean was declared crazy by the media.

January 27th, 2004 New Hampshire Presidential Primary (Closed)

February 3rd, 2004 Arizona Presidential Preference Election (Closed)
Delaware Democratic Presidential Primary (Closed)
Missouri Presidential Primary (Open)
New Mexico Democratic Caucuses
North Dakota Democratic Caucuses

Oklahoma Presidential Primary (Closed)
South Carolina Democratic Presidential Preference Primary

February 7th, 2004 Michigan Democratic Presidential Caucuses
Washington Democratic Caucuses

February 8th, 2004 Maine Democratic Caucuses

Tennessee Presidential Primary (Open)
Virginia Democratic Presidential Primary (Open)

February 14th, 2004 District of Columbia Democratic Caucuses(does not count but Dean won it.)
Nevada Democratic Caucuses

The DAY before WI Dean's campaign manager Steve Grossman left him and went directly to Kerry VERY PUBLICLY.

February 17th, 2004 Wisconsin Presidential Primary (Open)
Dean dropped out on the 18th, but he was no longer actively campaigning even then.
The states below the line never got to vote for a full slate of candidates at all. It should not be that way. None of our guys should be called losers!

I count 37 states who did not get to vote for Dean and other candidates. How is this right!!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

February 24th, 2004 Hawaii Democratic Caucuses
Dean was fundraising in Hawaii this week, putting his own feelings aside.
Idaho Democratic Caucuses
Utah Democratic Presidential Primary

March 2nd, 2004 California Presidential Primary (Modified Closed)
Connecticut Presidential Primary (Closed)
Georgia Presidential Preference Primary (Open)
Maryland Presidential Primary (Closed)
Massachusetts Presidential Primary
Minnesota Democratic Caucuses
New York Presidential Primary (Closed)
Ohio Presidential Primary (Open)
Rhode Island Presidential Preference Primary
Vermont Presidential Primary (Open)

March 9th, 2004 Florida Presidential Primary (Closed)
Louisiana Presidential Preference Election
Mississippi Presidential Primary (Open)
Texas Presidential Primary (Open)

March 13th, 2004 Kansas Democratic Caucuses

March 16th, 2004 Illinois Presidential Primary (Open)

March 20th, 2004 Alaska Democratic Caucuses
Wyoming Democratic County Caucuses

April 13th, 2004 Colorado Democratic Caucuses

April 27th, 2004 Pennsylvania Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 4th, 2004 Indiana Presidential Primary (Open)
North Carolina Presidential Primary (Closed

May 11th, 2004 Nebraska Presidential Primary (Open)
West Virginia Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 15th, 2004 Wyoming Democratic State Caucus

May 18th, 2004 Arkansas Presidential Primary (Open)
Kentucky Presidential Primary (Closed)
Oregon Presidential Primary (Closed)

May 25th, 2004 Idaho Presidential Primary (Open)

June 1st, 2004 Alabama Presidential Primary (Open)
New Mexico Republican Primary
South Dakota Presidential Primary (Closed)

June 8th, 2004 Montana Presidential Primary (Open)
New Jersey Presidential Primary

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

15. Didn't we go through this? Think it is ok that 37 states didn't count?

I don't. I never start threads like this, but there is no way in hell it is fair that 37 states did not get to vote for a full slate of candidates.

[mbali]

18. Get over it - that's the process the party - and the states - agreed to

it's over. Move on.

[madfloridian]

19. Not true. Will get the info tomorrow. Terry Mac did it.

I will not get over anything anymore. I will not MoveOn. I thought I would, but this damn board is so hateful tonight that it just does matter.

Whiner, loser, crybaby...I have been called all that.

Go for it.

It was done by Terry and a DNC committee. I will find all the good stuff on it tomorrow.

It is dead wrong for 37 states not to get to vote for all candidates.

[mbali]

20. Don't waste your time getting more information. It's pointless

the primaries are over. Dean did not get the nomination. Neither did anyone else but Kerry. Your continued harping on it makes no sense.

The board is not "hateful." People are just sick of you bleating on and on about some personal problem that you have that doesn't make a whit of difference to this election.

If you don't like the primary process, go do something about it. But ranting on DU about an issue that is completely meaningless at this point in time, when the rest of us are trying to defeat George W. Bush is a monumental waste of everyone's time.

GET OVER IT.

[madfloridian]

23. I will not get over it. That is a cruel thing to say to a Floridian.

From here on things you say won't matter to me since you said that. That is a hurtful thing.

We will eventually do something about the primary process. I can not believe that everyone here thinks it is ok. That is very sad.

You get over my ranting, ok? It is still America, and it is my country, too. You get over it.

[mellowinman]

14. What is your objective?

Do you hope to have Dean step in right now to replace Kerry?

This is pointless.

No one should call Howard Dean a loser. Dean would've made a great candidate.

Kerry makes a better candidate. He won fair and square.

He is our man.

The time you spent posting this would have been better served making an effort at beating Bush.

Volunteer. Donate. Canvass.

Do your part. There may be room for Howard Dean in a Kerry administration.

Don't forget: Dean endorses Kerry.

I consider both men good and trusted Democrats.

I will not fight you.

You will not fight me.

Got it?

[madfloridian]

16. My objective HAS been to keep the peace.

I have posted many times for people not to criticize Kerry. Where does it get us? It gets us called losers and whiners and other names.

Of course Dean is not going to be the nominee. What a silly thing to say.

I mean I am through trying to keep peace. I have tried to say that many of the folks posting this crap are NOT even Dean supporters.

I don't care what folks post from now on. Let them. I tried, but I was called a loser. This party does not deserve someone like Dean who is on the road 6 days a week for grassroots candidates. The party does not even respect him. Or us.

My goal was to show that 37 states did not have a meaningful role in the primaries, but no one seems to care. I find that sad.

[AuntPatsy]

21. I care and don't give up, perhaps the next primary

your voice can demand a change. I agree with you, all the states should have a voice. We are supposedly one America, demoracy demands you continue to fight for what you see to be fair to all...

[madfloridian]

22. Thank you, yours is one of the first kind voices I have heard tonight.

I do care passionately that only a handful of states got to vote in a meaningful way.

[saracat]

26. 50 states didn't have a say in election 2000.

That is sad. That is criminal. I wish people had taken what was done to the electoral process and the right to vote as seriously as they take the whole Howard Dean thing. Our whole democracy is at stake and we have to keep talking about this drivel? I did not hate Dean. I didn't think he was liberal enough and had an awful environmental record but I swear I am beginning to hate the sound of his name.And that is too bad because he is doing some great things.So shut up and let the man be. He doesn't need you or anyone else to defend him on a stupid thread.More important things demand his time and yours. We had our country high jacked without a whimper of protest and now instead of finally fighting to get our government back in the current election you want to re fight a primary that is finished and done.This is the stupidest thread I have ever seen.I hope Howard Dean spanks you for having the audacity to continue this fight as opposed to the real one.He would be ashamed.

[madfloridian]

27. Then stop the name calling.

It is not a stupid thread when my vote did NOT count in 2000, neither did yours. My vote did not count in 2002, maybe, not sure, can not prove because it was state level. Polls jumped up 12% for Jeb just before the election, he is gov.

My vote did not count for president this year at all. It just did not not.

You are talking to me like I am a child. I never started this last night, but I got tired of the ugliness toward us.

As I said I have posted peace threads and tried to keep things nice. Now with the ugliness I won't attempt it.

I think anyone who is not alarmed at this lack of vote counting should be ashamed.

Howard Dean would spank me for saying these things? I don't think so.

[madfloridian]

17. And another thing....do NOT judge me and my activism.

Do NOT lecture me. My husband and I are both very active Democrats. We donate, we give our time, we stay in touch with candidates.

I will not fight you unless you question my loyalty and talk down to me.

I don't think Dean belongs in the adminstration. I think it is too late for the party to be the same again. I feel distraught that our Democrats will continue the imperialism started years ago, and pushed in such a tragic manner by Bush.

I am angry and sad for my country. If you have read my posts, you know we donated to Kerry and will vote for him. I do NOT criticize Kerry, and I expect no one to criticize me. I do not like being called a loser.

We have only begun. DFA is only beginning, and look at what is being accomplished! How can people not be impressed. Yet this board call him a loser, and it makes us all furious.

[Moderator]

28. Locking

flamebait