When things look bad, should you fight harder, or give up?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Poll question: When things look bad, should you fight harder, or give up?

[Julien Sorel]

1. The same people who demand Kerry runs

an attack dog campaign and lambast him for not having guts are the people who are first to be pessimistic. Funny, you'd think those people, being experts on guts and all, would be the last to knuckle under to negativity.

[JackDragna]

21. ..or maybe we're merely the first to realize..

..when we've a lame horse in the race.

[Julien Sorel]

23. The primaries, son, the primaries.

Or did you learn from experience? That's what it was, yeah, that's the ticket.

[MrBenchley]

29. "when things look bad"

Geeze, the GOP convention was a stinkbomb....pResident Turd's entire platform consists of "Anybody But Kerry"....and he can't go out in public but has to demand written loyalty oaths from hand-picked clots of supporters, and even there he gets the occasional protestor....

And there are people here who are pretending that things are going bad for John Kerry.....

[prodigal_green]

2. Give up, of course...or if you're W, attack country unrelated to the fight

on edit: oh. you were talking about us.

[democratreformed]

3. Fight harder, of course. Nothing worth having ever comes easy....

at least, it hasn't ever for me.

[henslee]

4. Give up, smoke weed, eat donuts, kick the dog, beat the wife.

[chicagojoe]

28. Hopefully this is sarcasm, henslee.

[henslee]

30. I'm......

so busted.

[jfalchion]

5. Give up?

...is not an option. If things..., we must stay and offer resistance. Chimpy plans to roll back the New Deal.:kick:

[nomaco-10]

6. No, we should all just sit tight and wait for Will Pitt to tell us all...

"to go fuck ourselves".
Don't despair, Pitt is on the way.

That's always inspirational.

edited for grammar, not for CONTENT

[NightOwwl]

7. Oh, I get it. This is a takeoff on a CNN poll.

For a minute I thought you were being serious.

[Bread and Circus]

8. That's not the question that matters....

what we do now, doesn't matter.

It's up to Kerry, his election engineers, and the other Democratic Leaders to determine the fate of the campaign.

What we did may have sorta-kinda mattered in the primaries....but even then there were only 2 true grassroots movements...Dean's and Clark's...one was a phenomenom (Dean's) and one started amazingly and ended as a flop (Clark's). Kucinich's campaign definitely had a lot of fidelity at the grass roots but it didn't seem like a "grass roots" campaign to me (but I was an outsider on that). Nonetheless, neither Kerry nor Edwards had a real grassroots "movement". It was all top down and the marching band that Kerry had follow him to debates was about as real as the tooth fairy. But look who now heads the party: Kerry and Edwards. They got there without us, so they should be able to get into the White House without us.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Kerry, sir, I'm waiting for your next move.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. Well

an original grassroots Kerry supporter I disagree with your premise.

I don't see how one or two groups have some kind of claim on being the only real grassroots.

[Bread and Circus]

12. Because John Kerry may have had "grassroots" supporters but

he didn't have a "grassroots movement".

I give you total props on your support. I know you've been there for him since I came to DU back in the summer of 2003. And you probably should know I am have been a long time Clark supporter.

But come on, let's be honest. You saying Kerry had a grassroots "movement" is like me saying Clark was a good campaigner. Sure, we can say those things and there could be some evidence of it somewhere to be found. But in both cases, neither is true.

Put another way, if Kerry had a real "grassroots movement" he wouldn't have had to mortgage his house to keep his campaign afloat.

But the bigger point is that after the Detroit debate, Clark/Dean/Kucinich went to a local bar and "stood on a barstool" to give a town hall speech to rabid supporters while Kerry went to a 3rd Floor "invitation" only dinner at Hockeytown USA with Terry McAuliffe and God only knows who.

What I'm trying to say is that the "Party" knows best, so other than our money what do they really need from us?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. I'll see your grassroots movement and raise you grassroots support

and the power of the ballot.

My point being that it is the number of supporters, not the fervor of the movement, that wins elections.

[Bread and Circus]

14. Like I said...Kerry doesn't need us....it's up to him.

I am not fighting nor giving up. You pose the wrong question.

The question should be more like:

What should the Kerry campaign and Democratic leaders be doing right now?

Here are my potential choices --

1.) Taking time off and windsurfing?
2.) Muddling the message by chasing too many political birds?
3.) Continue playing nice and hope Rove and Co. do the same?
4.) Play into Rove's hands by always being on the defensive?

or

5.) Hone the message down to a few strong impact/emotional themes?
6.) Get every DNC goon on the TV sets lambasting Bush and his thugs every damn chance they get?
7.) Relentlessly portray the accurate and true image that Bush is functionally illiterate, ignorant, a former drunk, a ne'er-do-well, a former coke head, a failed business man, a prodigal son, a wimp who never fights his own battles, and a dirty rotten liar? Not only that but also point out that everything is worse since he's taken office due to his crony capitalism and abysmal backwords policies?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. You ask what the Kerry campaign should be doing right now

Here is what they are doing:

The Kerry-Edwards campaign Saturday unveiled a new television ad revealing once again that there is a difference between what George Bush says and what George Bush does -- this time on Medicare.

On Thursday in his convention speech, Bush claimed seniors are getting relief from his Medicare bill, but the next morning, he imposed the biggest hike in Medicare's history.

Featuring footage of Bush speaking at the convention, the ad gives the American people the opportunity to see that there is a difference between what their president says and what their president does.

"The largest premium hike in Medicare's history isn't 'immediate help,' it's the wrong direction for our seniors," said Kerry-Edwards campaign spokesperson Phil Singer. "The choice in this election is clear: if voters want a president who gives billions to the drug companies, stick with George Bush. If voters want a president who will lead America in a new direction and put the needs of seniors first, vote for John Kerry."

The ad will be rotated into markets across the country and also air nationally on cable.

A crowd of more than 20,000 packed into Firestone Stadium in Akron, Ohio. The excitement didn’t let up as the Mayor of Akron Don Plusquellic and John Sweeney, President of the AFL-CIO introduced John Kerry.

As John Kerry told the crowd, “We are not going to divide America into Red States and Blue States – we are going to make it one America -- Red, White and Blue for all.

http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/002704.html#002704

Kerry challenges Bush spin on latest jobless figures

"The secretary of labor stood up and said that 144,000 jobs is something to celebrate," Mr. Kerry said on the front lawn of a Newark couple dealing with their second job loss in two years.

"At the rate that this administration is creating jobs, you're not going to have a net-plus-one job in the state of Ohio until the year 2011," he said. "I don't think this is something to celebrate."
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040904/NEWS09/409040390/-1/NEWS

Edwards in Waukesha, Tears Into Bush

John Edwards tore into President Bush for failing to revive the national economy and catering only to the rich.
He appeared at campaign rally in Waukesha -- the heart of Wisconsin's Republican base Saturday.
The Democratic vice presidential candidate says the last 11 presidents managed to create jobs, but Bush ended the streak.
He says Bush's tax cuts helped only millionaires and Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry will fight for the working class.

Earlier in the day he made a stop on a farm just outside Wisconsin Dells.
Friday he made stops in Green Bay, Wausau and Stevens Point.

[Bread and Circus]

17. Excellent...sounds good...you were right in the Primaries...

I hope you are right this time.

And I'm glad to see Kerry get his ass in gear. It can't be just him though. He needs to get the memos and the talking points out. Every talking head Democrat with any moxie whatsoever should be on the TV and in the papers everywhere, all the time. We need a chorus denouncing Bush, just like we did in the primaries. It worked then, his numbers went down. We need to do it now.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

20. It's not under the control of the Kerry campaign who gets on TV

I came to the realization a long time ago that the corporate media was consciously and somewhat blatantly working to silence the Democratic message, undermine Democratic candidates, and elect Bush, and nothing I've seen has changed my mind about that.

[Bread and Circus]

24. You are probably right about that...but Clinton was able to

damage control and win two elections until he provided a certain substance that is difficult to wash out.

They called him Slick Willie for a reason. That is, he knew how to
foil their attempts to stick shit to him.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

26. Things have changed a lot since 96,

and the Lewinsky scandal proved two things -- Clinton was not able to control the messages that were put out on media, and the American people supported him anyway.

[TwentyFive]

18. 5+6+7 all the way. No question about it.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JI7]

22. no, in Iowa they were true supporters and it took months of hard work

to get that support. that's why Kerry had continued working hard even though the media declared his campaign over. he didn't just get lucky, it was hard work and those of us who supported him from the start saw it happen. most people on here ignored him.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. people are sheep

going to the booth and voting the way the media and the party tells you too is not a grassroots movement.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. I take it you are refering to yourself,

since insulting others isn't allowed here.

[Suzi Creamcheese]

9. Do you mean in Iraq or the Presidential race?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. I mean the campaign

[TwentyFive]

19. Fight 110% hard - even if it's the last day and things look totally lost.

[liberal N proud]

31. I would like to see the people who voted "Give Up" post a reason.

Why would you give up?
D-Day : War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto : Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter : Germans?
Boon : Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto : And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...

Bluto : the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!