Kerry needs to get Vietnam behind him.

[notbush]

He should either come out in a press conference and address the questions about his service or shut the fuck up about Vietnam.
His Friday morning(12:01 a.m.) ralley.....he just had to bring up his Vietnam service one more time.
You can't bitch about the swift vets and then fail to answer any questions.
If we need to "talk about what's important to America", then quit bringing up Vietnam and the swift vets.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[notbush]

20. Thankyou skinner

I didn't even hit the mod. button.

[JI7]

2. another anti Kerry post repeating right wing talking points from you

[The Straight Story]

11. hmmmm

Is it anti-kerry to offer advice when one thinks the candidate can do a better job at something? If you think kerry has handled everything perfectly from day one then perhaps you should take another look. The job of the people putting him in office is to make sure he does what we put him there to do, and in the meantime we should analyze and when needed criticize how he handles things.

Do we fear such a thing? Will we lose votes? I gather most people reading here already have their mind made up. We can't let kerry be like bush - ie, a bunch of kerry bots who ignore anything he does so that we can keep displaying a good image to the masses.

I think he will make a damn fine president, but I am sure as hell gonna keep an eye on him when he gets in. If I see bullshit I will call it and not worry that it will give the right some ammo. I won't live in fear and sacrifice my values so someone's image is all pretty (like the bush bots and ditto heads do).

As far as nam goes, my wish is that he would simply come out and say "I was there, you weren't, end of discussion on that and lets focus on today and not decades ago." and anytime someone brings it up retort with some facts and figures about the debt/etc.

Kerry can do better, does not mean he is doing bad or anything like that, just means that in a big tent party there are some who are more vocal about what they see as good and bad - I tend to let him ride with it myself but understand some people voicing their frustrations (which I can grasp, there is a lot at stake and they just hope for the best, and like most people offer opinions on how that can be accomplished - and while we often deride armchair quarterbacks they can at times offer some unfiltered input which should be heeded).

I am not up to date on the poster's history of kerry posts, so not disputing so much your analysis as I am offering my ideals as to why some people will voice their views while others just shut up and go along for the ride.

[JI7]

12. it's a right wing talking point to suggest he brought it on himself

[oasis]

3. His valor in Vietnam is about to be measured against AWOL Chimp. The

upcoming Barnes interview on "60 Minutes" is going to shatter the heroic image of Commander in Chief Chimpy.

[notbush]

4. No personal attacks please...Let's talk about winning.

Kerry can bitch and moan tell "Hell Freezes Over" about the swifties.
If he doesn't take them on point by point, their gonna steal some votes.
This whole Vietnam thing has been a net loss for his campaign since the convention.
Let's talk about the issues we can win with....Vietnam is picking a scab that has no positives.
Denounce the Swifties and then shut up about Vietnam.

[oasis]

8. Quite a bit of "swifty ads" are being aired by Kerry's opponents. What

is your remedy for that?

[Yupster]

27. Find out what the swifties want

from him.

Maybe an agreement can be reached.

What they're really pissed at is his 1971 testimony. Maybe he can clarify what he meant ad placate them.

That's what I'd try to do.

[oasis]

30. The Swifties for Bush are nothing but opportunists.Kerry owes them nothing

They have turned their backs on their country in order to keep a chickenhawk, tyrant in the highest office. They have made a grave and reckless error in judgement. By doing so, they have brought dishonor upon themselves.

[notbush]

33. I know that...You know that....

But, they're hurtin' us in the polls.
Something different must be done.

[oasis]

35. If Kerry addresses their grievances point by point, Vietnam will still

dominate the the news. The Swiftboat liars have $2.5 million to spend on negative ads. And they're going to spend it.

They also will be making public appearances so they can get a crack at staying in a 4 star hotel with somebody else footing the bill.

Vietnam is not going away. It may not get top billing throughout the campaign, but it will not be laid to rest.

[notbush]

40. George Soros can (and said he will)

write us a check for whatever we need.
I don't understand how these Swiftvets and their punnie amount of money can launch any effective attack.
Our 527's are MUCH bigger than there 527's.

[maine_raptor]

5. You're right, Kerry needs to get off his Vietnam service

and get onto Bush's lack of full tour of military service, lack of plans for health care, lack of plans for job creation, lack of interest in rebuilding alliances, lack concern for the squeeze that the middle class is currently suffering, and general lack of understanding of American Democracy Values.

And if the questions cut Bush to the quick, then maybe Kerry can offer him one of those cute purple heart band-aids that the Republicans love so much.

[mike_c]

15. more military discussion would be Rove's wet dream....

Kerry needs to change the subject entirely. This whole debate about Vietnam service has been framed by Rove and shrubya. Anything Kerry says-- unless he can acually come up with the goods to charge a sitting president with desertion-- will only serve to keep the debate centered right where Rove wants it: 30 years ago.

Kerry needs to go somewhere the chimp does not want to go, e.g. lies about Iraq, where's the beef in Iraq, George, hey, hey, how many kids did you kill today, dubya?

Seriously, Kerry needs to change the subject and frame the debate on his own terms. He needs to blindside Bush and lure him out of his prepared positions, because Rove has this worked out to an art form. National security, 9-ll, taxes, most especially the "war on terror"-- those are all issues that Bush is all over and he'd love to draw Kerry into miring himself in any of them.

on edit: John Kerry is being Gored....

[JI7]

6. Republican talking point =Kerry brought it on himself by talking Vietnam

[notbush]

9. Vietnam is NOT a winning issue for any politician.

It represents the point in time our country was most divided.
Not an issue to base a campaign on.

[JI7]

10. Kerry's military service is a winning issue which is why he is attacked on

it by Bush people.

[notbush]

16. I don't think it is any more.

If John wants to run on that issue he MUST come forward and defend himself against the attacks.(My opinion).
To base his leadership ability on his service in Vietnam and then refuse to "take on those who would question it", serves no purpose.
I think he needs to personally, point by point, take on the swifties attacks. THE FACTS ARE ON HIS SIDE!!!!

[notbush]

17. I don't think it is any more.

If John wants to run on that issue he MUST come forward and defend himself against the attacks.(My opinion).
To base his leadership ability on his service in Vietnam and then refuse to "take on those who would question it", serves no purpose.
I think he needs to personally, point by point, take on the swifties attacks. THE FACTS ARE ON HIS SIDE!!!!

[maine_raptor]

18. The biggest problem with a point by point rebuttal

is that it takes time and risks boring voters.

Bush is the master of bait and switch. The economy, jobs, taxes, education, etc. all have been victims of this B+S. This needs to be exposed, displayed for all to see, and then Kerry's plans used in contrast.

[notbush]

22. I agree. That's why I'd REALLY like to get this Vietnam shit behind us.

John keeps saying he wants to talk about the things important to the american people....but then he has to throw in a reference to vietnam.
I nearly broke a cog Thur. night, he was on a roll, he HAD to throw in a reference to Vietnam.
PLEASE John, leave it alone, the swifties will go home.

[JI7]

23. it's Bush supporters who don't want references to Vietnam because of Iraq

and Bush not serving in that war while having supported it himself.

[sampsonblk]

32. "Kerry's military service is a winning issue" if they don't attack it

But their attacks have gained a lot of traction - I'd say mainly due to RW radio and Fox news.

Now every time he brings it up, so-called patriots roll their eyes. Is the whole world gone mad, or just me? This is ridiculous.

[notbush]

38. "If they don't attack it"

WTF have you been for the last 6 months....living in a cave without radio,tv,cable,etc.......................

[The Traveler]

13. This issue is physical courage

Really. When has GWB ever demonstrated physical courage? By throwing out a baseball while wearing a bulletproof vest? Gimme a break. The man hid underground for two days after 9/11 ... and even Tucker Carlson knows that and knows what it means.

Not to sound macho but here's the simple truth: George W. Bush is too much of a chickenshit wimp to have ever hung out with me and my buds, and some of them were girls. We climbed mountains, raced motorcycles, skied double black diamond slopes at 60 mph ... yeah we were all geeks overcompensating for the way our culture stereotypes intelligent men and women. But we discovered an edge, and intensity in all that which served to amplify our love of life, and so our motto was from the Bible: "He who fears to lose his life shall lose it." GWB could never have kept up with us.

I tell you this. I would never, in a million years, rope up with George Bush. But John Kerry, Wesley Clark, Howard Dean ('cause Howard's clearly got it) ... sure.

And John Kerry ... volunteered for two tours ... can certainly say the same thing. Hell, Kerry plays hockey and Bush falls off bicycles.

We are (and it really sucks) at war. Can we afford to be lead by men who never demonstrated the capacity for physical courage? Such men find it all too easy to take risks with other people's lives.

Bush is a coward and a wimp. It needs to be said.

[JI7]

14. agree, Bush is a coward and a whimp, that's why he puts on the fake

macho act which seems to only appeal to right wing men.

as a female i know it sure turns me off. i'm disgusted and repulsed by him. when it came to true moments when he could have shown his bravery, he has always failed. not just failed to act, but he went into hiding as you say.

[The Traveler]

19. The vast majority of right wing men

of my acquaintance have never demonstrated physical courage and are intimidated by me. My body is 48 years old and kinda messed up ... too many joint injuries and broken bones. I walk like an old man. I have bursitus. Yet, I seem to scare them, and when the conversations turn to politics and they ask me why I dislike GWB so much, I tell them it is because he is a candy assed little girlie man pretending to be a hero, they are speechless. (Never forgive Arnold for stealing my line, the bastard.) It amuses me.

And the degree of their discomfort shows me they know I am right.

[JI7]

21. i think that's probably why they like him, he is weak like them

but they don't want to admit it. they feel inferior to those who show true courage. bush makes them feel better about themselves.

[The Traveler]

25. I think you are right on target there (n/.t)

[GingerSnaps]

24. Why, so that Bush's record will be tucked away in a neat corner?

Kerry needs to keep hammering the war monger on his
AWOL record.

[diamond14]

26. it's great to have Vietnam front and center....the reTHUGlican attacks

are keeping it there...and people are slowly realizing that it's WRONG for reTHUGlicans to mock OUR soldiers' purple hearts (with their swift boat liar and their purple heart bandages), especially as reTHUGlicans conduct a very immoral war, stinking of war crimes and war profiteers....


Vietnam is a WINNING issue for Kerry...and just as this is heating up to the bush* Vietnam service records, and the blowback from the swift LIARS, bush* now insists that his smears aren't working this time, so let's stop.....even sent out John McCain to encourage stopping this, and cheney, and rove, and ALL the reTHUGlicans, even bush*, are commending Kerry's HEROIC and DANGEROUS and HONORABLE Vietnam war service, just to try and make their blowback go away...and it isn't going away...the hurricane blowback is just building up some strength....here it comes bush*, and you started it, and as Kerry said, everything is on the table now....

let's look at bush* records, and let's look at bush* Iraq war too....

and let's laugh at all the memememe REPETITIVE rovian talking points that keep showing up on DU....smash them down....REAL DUers know the memememe....it's time to really mess with these interlopers....

------------------

the BIG rovian talking points on DU today are:

1. Kerry is loosing, look at these rovian polls that PROVE IT..\

2. get over Vietnam, take it off the table, anything to get the Vietnam issue to disappear, especially the part about bush*, afterall, it's 35 year ago...and reTHUGlicans started in January, attacking Kerry's war record, in Vietnam and after Vietnam, even going so far as to photoshop Jane Fonda into a rally photo with Kerry....all of it didn't work...so now, rove want's to stop it...the BLOWBACK is too much for rove...

3. tell Kerry this, tell Kerry that, this is how Kerry should run his campaign, and especially to prove that Kerry is dumb like bush*...Kerry is being led astray by his staff...look at how Mary Beth is misleading Kerry....Kerry needs new staff because they are taking him in the wrong direction...all implying that Kerry is NOT the leader and doesn't understand anything...and trying to flood Kerry's HQ with stupid stuff...

[notbush]

29. I respectfully disagree

Picking the scab of Vietnam will lead us to a quagmire politically.
It's not a winner.
We will discuss it again in the middle of November.

[diamond14]

34. bullsh*t....Iraq is a REPEAT of Vietnam....the exact same scenerio...

the lessons of Vietnam will lead us to a solution for Iraq....

that's what bush* never learned, because bush* refused to go and snuck out...the lessons of Vietnam...


Kerry is a WAR HERO for and against the Vietnam WAR...a man with a conscience....

and America is only beginning to learn about Kerry....bush* attacks have resulted in many millions of Americans watching on TV, the young Kerry's heroic representation of "Vietnam Veterans against the WAR"....Kerry was one of the major leaders that led out OUT of Vietnam, saving OUR soldiers lives, and more recently, led us to recover our dead and our prisoners, left in Vietnam, and to normalize relationships with the still-communist Nation of Vietnam....it's an impression story of real Presidential leadership...I hope all Americans continue to hear about and read about Kerry's record of leadership and strength....


Iraqmire is a duplicate of Vietnam...the more Americans learn about Kerry's Vietnam diplomacy...the more we will want KERRY to lead us out of Iraqmire too....

added plus...Kerry's breakup of bush*'s bank BCCI, and more...it'd be great to have President Kerry thow all these BFEE criminals in JAIL....and close down their terror-funding networks, like bush* RIGGS bank...and more....if we're lucky, Kerry will close down the CIA terror networks and bush*s failed Homeland Security boondoggle...and capture all the Halliburton criminals....


Vietnam ties it all together....and reTHUGlican Presidential CINC skills lost that war in a real embarrassment...nixon and ford...finally, we fled from a third-world nation with no Air Force and no Navy, fleeing in hails of bullets right off the roof of our own embassy, with our Vietnamese compatriots hanging off the bottom of the helicopters and dropping to their deaths....very embarrassing for the GREATEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD....and Gerald Ford thought the exit off OUR embassy roof was so glorious, that he asked for the ladder to be saved and put it into a museum for posterity...ford said something about that ladder symbolizing the 'human spirit' and 'freedom'...just like bush*....


if we let bush* keep running his Iraqmire folly...it won't be long before it looks just like this....and bush* will want to keep the ladder for it's GLORIOUS memories....

[Name removed]

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[sampsonblk]

28. Its been handled very poorly, I agree on that part

In my view, he either has to make his Vietnam service work in his favor, or leave it alone. If he continues as before, its a detriment to keep mentioning it.

What kind of world do we live in??? A war hero is bad, but a draft dodger is good??? WTF??? But that's the way its playing out so far.

[notbush]

31. And they can throw in quotes from almost every Democratic

politician in 1992/1996 that Clinton's record in regards to Vietnam didn't matter.
Let's get to todays issues....Vietnam sucked.

[diamond14]

37. more bullsh*t....Clinton was a CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR....

BTW, I notice that you IMMEDIATELY reverted to your rovian talking points: LOOK over there...it's Clenis !!!!!

sorry to inform you that Clinton last ran for office in 1996, and he is not running this year...but your Clenis envy is real funny...

Vietnam WAR Veteran Al Gore ran in 2000 (and as the son of a Senator, he could have pulled a bushie and skipped out) against AWOL deserter bush* (and Al Gore got dissed on his war service by bush* attacks too)....

and NOW, today, Vietnam War HERO John F. Kerry is running this year against Vietnam deserter and AWOL bush*...so let's talk about bush* Vietnam War Service...every single day that bush* served and all of bush* war records and medals are on the table, because bush* brought it up in his attacks starting in January using Jane Fonda photoshopped pictures with Kerry, and dissing Kerry's right to throw his/other Vietnam Vets war ribbons/medals over a fence if he/other Vietnam Vets want....bush* lies and BLOWBACK....LET's KEEP VIETNAM UP HIGH IN THE HEADLINES...it's a real loser for bush*...reminds America of bush* failures in his current Iraqmire follies...

so, I think all REAL DUers would greatly appreciate it, if you would take your Clenis envy elsewhere....unless you are trying to entertain us, by letting us LAUGH AT YOU !! We see Clenis envy so much here, that it's surprising the posters aren't embarrassed by their "moran" tactics....

[notbush]

39. I got $1000 FOR A LATE NIGHT POLITICO...(wanna make a stupid bet?)

Come on,I love the big dog.....and I hope things go his way in the next few days in reguard to his health problem.
But Bill himself has never,would never, and WILL never discribe himself as a "Conscientious Objector".
DON'T PUT WORDS IN THE BIG DOGS MOUTH.
Bill Clinton was, is, or will ever be a "Conscientious Objector".