A Democrat slipping away from Kerry.

[Gothic Sponge]

I got an email today from my friend (a registered Democrat) who says he might not vote at all! He said "How can i trust Kerry to defend America when he will not defend himself from the republican attacks?" Funny, i forget what show it was, but i heard someone use that same talking point. I understand his comment, but Kerry did hit hard right after the RNC ended! I sent an email back asking if he heard Kerry on Thursday night?

I really hope this is not a trend, or we may be in trouble.

[Placebo]

1. Bill Maher Said The Same On REAL TIME, Friday...

Maybe you heard it there. :)

[Gothic Sponge]

2. Yes! That was it!

Thanks. I'm going to ask him if he watches Bill Maher.

[Clinton Crusader]

35. I was stunned at Maher's attitude..

he was all but handing it to * , when before he was all gung ho for Kerry, now he seems resigned to a * victory.
:kick:

[napi21]

42. I think Mahr was attempting to fire you the Dems!

I watched him too, and if you watched his interview with Dean, you could see he was posing questions to get Dean to refute them. I think he was doing the same thing with the other guests like Arienna, Pat Buchanan, Sullivan, and the third whose name I can't remember. Buchanan did a decent job pointing out some shrub faults, as did Ariena. Dean did a terrific job too.

[TexasSissy]

52. Yeah, that was a great Maher Real Time show. I don't recall

that statement by Maher, though. As far as Kerry striking back right after the RNC ended....who the heck was up and watching news at midnight? I'm glad he spoke up, finally. And I did hear a sentence of two on the morning news the next day, which no doubt was Kerry's aim. But most people did not hear his angry response at midnight the night before, incl. me.

[moondust]

3. Blame the victim.

It's an old Republican trick. "It was his own fault that lynch mob strung him up."

[Placebo]

7. Republicans ALWAYS BLAME ME When They Start Attacking ME...

When I debate politics on other websites where its not strictly democratic.

I can't even begin to name alllllllllll the times I've started a thread with a fact or an article in it that they can't debate or argue about in a civil way, they all start pouncing with the personal attacks and profanities and just total trash,

Then, when you try and tell that to the mods, they just whine "Oh C'MON, YOU WERE ASKING FOR IT! You knew what you were getting into posting that."

I always say, it's like the line of a rapist, always blaming the date for wearing a short skirt and how it's her fault.

[2Design]

40. the rethugs are like attack dogs. I had that happen on a forum

and left and found this one. The circle type of logic argument that ties the 'victim' in knots trying to defend his position. This is a method of confusion. I am not sure what it is called but they have all been trained very well in it. It is nasty and allows no room for debate or common sense.

It is meant to intimidate. I wish I knew the psychologial term and the best way to deflect rather than defend against this type of argument. It is like when bush and cheney use 'mocking' ..it is the bully tactics of the playground....

[depakid]

4. Your friend is falling for the GOP message

It's the same one in essense that they've been using succesfully for 30 years+

However, this time, I think they may have picked on the wrong guy.

[JI7]

5. waste of time appealing to these types

[Racenut20]

6. Tell him to think about what he is slipping TO....

[oasis]

9. .......Or slipping into, like a camoflage uniform after the 2005 draft.

:think:

[kungfugrip]

8. Too late in the game to Puss out.

Fall in line or get out of the way. Seriously. We need to shed this sap ass weak kneed shit.

[Sugarbleus]

10. Yikes, that's pretty scary....

I was off playing a game when a newscast on radio said that Kerry was taking the day OFF, at home with his wife. I came back in here to say
Hmmmmmmm......

I'm in Calif. I don't see Kerry on TV much or in person at all. I'm left swinging in the breeze, metaphorically. I worry.

I depend on what other's see or hear, from within DU. I'm starting to get depressed. So many people are campaigning and donating (as have I) and working their tails off for Kerry........why is he home???? Didn't he just take time off to go windsurfing? I know his wife was sick with a stomach problem the other day...could that be it? Bush is out there doing his thing almost non stop... Geez


I'm not hopeless, just concerned.

[JI7]

11. he was campaigning for days , including during the republican convention

[mark414]

14. off topic

but, i LOVE that picture

it puts a huge smile on my face everytime i see it

[Guaranteed]

13. Hopefully he's figuring out a way to get around

his IWR vote while attacking Bush's incompetency in the war on terror.

[moondust]

15. Teresa got sick.

Paid a visit to the emergency room in Iowa.

[Julien Sorel]

17. Bush just spent two weeks at his ranch playing cowboy,

and practicing a speech he's already given about 100 times. I simply can't believe anyone would compare Bush's work ethic to Kerry's and somehow favor Bush.

[VolcanoJen]

20. Kerry was campaigning in Ohio all day Saturday.

I assume the reporter meant that he was taking Sunday off... but honestly, he could use a little downtime to tweak his stump speech and wargame, don't you think?

Kerry started Saturday in Akron, where he spoke at a rally attended by around 12,000 people. From there, he went to Wellsville to do a front-porch meeting. He got some kind of hunting photo-op in somewhere, and he wrapped up the day in Steubenville, to speak at another big rally. Earlier Saturday, he delivered the Democratic radio address.

Read all about Kerry's busy Saturday in Ohio, at the official blog:

http://blog.johnkerry.com/

He's been busting his ass in this crucial swing state since the end of the RNC. If he's taking Sunday off, I'm sure that means he's not making any public appearances, but you can bet he'll be planning some strategy with his staff. No way would he go on vay-cay just as the campaign kicks off in earnest.

Try to have a little faith, Sugarbleus. :-) I'm honestly not worried in the slightest, and I'm right here in the heart of campaign central, where if it's Tuesday, Bush, Kerry, or both, must be in Ohio. Somewhere.

[Sugarbleus]

22. Thanks VJ, that sounds really, really good....

I do get E's from his campaign--I can go read reports...just got a photograph from him and Edwards...actually I get TONS of mail from DNC :D

But not actually SEEING him in LIVE action somehow is a bummer. When the DNC, and even before, was happening, it was a TREAT!! It was energizing, exciting..

I guess it's the price I pay for living in a non swing state. I rarely see any ads and it's Bush 24/7 on the RW media. I'm starved for a glimpse of Kerry kicking butt. I'm sure you can see how a person can get to wondering what's up.

So, thanks for chucking me on the 'ole shoulder...I needed that.
(DU sometimes substitutes for a support group I guess lol)

[JI7]

24. do you have cspan ?

i don't live in a swing state either, but i mostly see things because i follow things on his website and watch cspan which shows his appearances sometimes and he does VERY WELL in them.

[Sugarbleus]

47. Yes, that is where I DO get what little bits I can of his rallies...

Thank goodness for C-span!! I also watch their Washington Journal in the mornings for info.

I go to his website occassionally and I get emails from him. Right after the DNC, the tube showed him at so many rallies and DUers posted pics of rallies etc, then *POOF*..next to nothing... *sigh*

Hanging in here...thanx :D

[Guaranteed]

12. Sigh...

:shrug:

I don't know what the hell to say.

You know, I had another encounter with a bunch of Repukes while playing online poker tonight. Someone said they were a Democrat, but that they liked Bush's approach to the war on terror. I said, "I dunno...I don't think we should be attacking people that don't threaten us," and then they all ganged up on me.

I have to say that I destroyed them. They even tried calling me unAmerican and unpatriotic, and I just turned it around on them by noting that they obviously didn't care about attacking the people who attacked us. I just went on and on about the Saudis and wasting valuable money and soldiers on Iraq...it was all totally reasonable, and they were reduced to telling me to shut up.

And when I finally did let up on them, they let it go, because they knew I was right.

So, I guess that's all I can say. We have to out tough-guy Bush as best we can.

[Julien Sorel]

16. How exactly does one defend oneself from these attacks.

Is denying a defense? Is proving them false a defense? What would satisfy your friend as a sufficient "defense?" You might want to ask him that. Ask the brilliant Bill Maher the same question -- surely he has an answer.

You also might want to ask him when he stopped beating his wife, and when he says he never has, demand that he prove it, over and over again. Obnoxiously. Derisively. Preferably in front of an audience. And if he comes after you, you get to launch a civil suit for assault. That's an analogy for what's going on here.

Ultimately, what's happened here is that the willingness to make patently false assertions and continue making them in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are false, has somehow become a "strength;" it is viewed as a legitimate means of gaining political power. I submit that a society of which that can be said is pathological, and will end up suffering for it.

[moondust]

18. Thank you.

Well put.

A country in which this shit thrives is morally and ethically adrift.

[Guaranteed]

19. This country is morally AND ethically adrift. nt

[mbali]

44. Thank you for saying this!

[NMDemDist2]

21. it's not Kerry's fault he's not getting news time

Saturday marked the end of the candidates’ tours through the Heartland. Kerry held rallies in Ohio, while Edwards visited Wisconsin. Teresa Heinz Kerry met with families in Iowa. Elizabeth Edwards talked with voters in Michigan.

On Labor Day, Kerry and the Edwardses will be back out on the trail headlining Front Porch events, talking to voters in battleground states. Democratic Party supporters around the country are also holding Front Porch discussions Monday in over 25 states and 50 communities. www.johnkerry.com

remember that he is getting great local news coverage in every town he visits

re: he's not defending himself? look at this
You all saw the anger and distortion of the Republican Convention. For the past week, they attacked my patriotism and my fitness to serve as Commander-in-chief. We’ll, here’s my answer. I will not have my commitment to defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have and by those who have misled the nation into Iraq.

The Vice President called me unfit for office last night. Well, I'll leave it up to the voters to decide whether five deferments makes someone more qualified to defend this nation than two tours of duty.

Let me tell you what I think makes someone unfit for duty. Misleading our nation into war in Iraq makes you unfit to lead this nation. Doing nothing while this nation loses millions of jobs makes you unfit to lead this nation. Letting 45 million Americans go without healthcare makes you unfit to lead this nation. Letting the Saudi Royal Family control our energy costs makes you unfit. Handing out billions of government contracts to Halliburton while you're still on their payroll makes you unfit. That's the record of George Bush and Dick Cheney. And that only scratches the surface. I believe it's time to move America in a new direction; I believe it's time to set a new course for America. And together, you, John Edwards and I will do that on November 2nd.

For four years, George Bush has stubbornly misled America and taken us in the wrong direction.

He's misled America's workers – he told them his economic plan would create 6 million jobs. The truth is we've lost nearly 1.8 million since George Bush took office. He said his plan would create 266,000 jobs in Ohio. Instead Ohio has lost 230,000 jobs since he took office -- 112,000 jobs since the recession ended in November of 2001. Earlier this week, his Labor Secretary even said outsourcing was good for America. I don’t believe that. John and I have a plan that will put an end to tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas and reward companies who create and keep jobs here in America. And we have a plan that will give tax credits to employers who create new jobs – and we’ll eliminate capital gains taxes for those who make long-term investments in their small businesses. We’ll also help small businesses meet the rising costs of health care – costs that keep so many of them from hiring and expanding.

For four years, George Bush has misled America's families – saying he had a health care plan for America. The truth is he's done nothing as 5 million more Americans have lost their health care, bringing the total number to 45 million people without coverage nationwide. In Ohio, 114,000 people have lost their health coverage since bush took office, bringing the total number of Ohioans without coverage to 1.4 million. John and I have a plan to make quality health care affordable for all. Because we believe that your health care is as important as any politician’s in Washington, DC.

When it comes to getting gas prices under control, George Bush has misled America. America is more dependent than ever on Mid-East oil. John and I have a plan to make America energy independent by investing in new technologies and alternative fuels. John and I believe we need to rely on American ingenuity and brainpower to ensure our country's freedom and independence, not on the Royal Saudi family.

Worst of all, George Bush misled America when he took us to war in Iraq. The truth is, when it comes to Iraq, it’s not that I would have done one thing differently, I would’ve done almost everything differently. I believe it’s time we had a president who told the American people the truth.

[TakeBackUSA]

36. It is his fault- he needs to find a way to shape the media

I know the deck is stacked against him, but he needs to reach more people. See my letter to the campaign.

[NMDemDist2]

37. welcome to DU

:hi:

and remember what I said about getting great local coverage everywhere he goes, and since he is everywhere (it seems) he's getting good press where most folks get their news.

[mondo joe]

39. It's his problem - and ours. He has to learn to use the media.

Excuses don't fill ballot boxes.

[POAS]

23. On the other hand,

How can you expect Bush to defend American's when he even attack's our war hero's in such a vicious fashion? How can I expect to be defended by a President that considers me to be disloyal for my beliefs.

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Bill Maher is doing to Kerry what he did to Gore.

Maher is NOT a liberal or progressive but more of a libertarian (definition: conservative who wants to have sex and do drugs without lying about it.)

Maher may even want Bush* to win because Bush* is such a good target for jokes.

[johncoby2]

26. Tell your friend to quit being a puss.

Geez.

[displacedtexan]

27. Your friend is either...

an idiot

or

he agrees more with the BFEE than he does with Dems.

Either way, he has to live with his choice (Bush*, JK, or no vote) on Nov. 2nd.

Just my observation.

[Democat]

28. Why do people in this thread think that premise is flawed?

Why isn't it valid for people to ask, "If Kerry won't even stand up for himself, why should I trust him to stand up for me?"

If he continues to fight back, like he as started to do in the last few days, then he has nothing to worry about from that premise.

If he chooses to let the right wing beat him senseless like they have for the last month, then maybe he really doesn't have what it takes to fight for Americans in the world.

You think Republicans are tough, what about terrorists? It might sound stupid to you, but try thinking like someone who is not obsessed with politics like all of us are. We know Kerry is the right man for the job, many people need to be convinced. You don't convince them by looking like a weakling and taking a beating without fighting back.

[JI7]

29. the problem is he has been but these people don't pay attention

he did respond in august but the media doesn't report on it. so rather than coming up with suggestions to get around the true problem people make claims like kerry isn't doing anything which is just false.

many of the people who complain never respond on threads posted which tell of what kerry has been doing and saying during the campaign.

and it's a republican argument anyways. blame the person for being attacked. forget about those doing the attacking. make the focus on the person being attacked. but of course that's what the right wing wants as do some democrats who think the republicans are attacking kerry because they are honestly mistaken and if he corrects them it will go away. but they will just keep lying 24/7 and they would love nothing more than for him to spend his time responding to their every single intentional lying attacks on him to prevent him from getting out his own agenda and showing people why they should vote for him.

[emulatorloo]

30. Because it presumes "Kerry isn't fighting back" when he is.

The premise is flawed because the OP's friend just isn't paying attention.

[mondo joe]

41. I really do feel he's not defending me.

I feel attacked by the repigs, though clearly not as personally as he is.

And it's pissing me off that he can't or won't defend me.

[mbali]

45. Then you're not paying attention!

FIRED-UP KERRY KEEPS UP HIS COUNTERATTACK ON GOP

The gloves are off . . . Sen. John Kerry yesterday tore into President Bush, ripping his policies, his convention performance and attacks on the Democrat's credibility. Now, it's game on.

"We need a president who can look you in the eyes, and when he does," Kerry said, "you know you're being told the truth about your lives, and about this country."

Looking out at a cheering crowd of several thousand who gathered to hear the first presidential candidate to visit their city since 1840, Kerry told them America's first lie-detector test was given in Newark in 1933.

"It's lucky for my opponent that his convention was held in New York and not here in Newark," he said. "It is clear that this president will literally say anything, do anything, in order to avoid talking about the real problems of America, in order to get re-elected."

Columbus Dispatch, September 4, 2004

KERRY URGES VOTERS TO LOOK PAST BUSH'S 'LAST-MINUTE PROMISES'
. . .
Senator John Kerry opened the final 60 days of the presidential campaign on Friday with a slashing indictment of President Bush's record on jobs and health care, saying he had misled the United States into war in Iraq and left a trail of broken promises and worsened problems at home.

"Yesterday, I read that speech," Mr. Kerry told a crowd of thousands here in a heavily Republican county outside Columbus that Mr. Bush won by 22 percentage points in 2000. "Every time they open their mouths, they can't tell the truth about the things that we want to do. It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. It's time for us to have a president of the United States who can look you in the eye and when he does, you know you're being told the truth about your lives and about this country."

But it was on the economy that Mr. Kerry focused on here in Newark, a rural town of 46,000 where 4,300 people are unemployed and another local factory is set to lay off 784 workers next Thursday.

"All these attacks on me, I've been through worse, believe me - that's not what this is about," he said. "It's their attacks on you, that's what this is all about."

Many of the people who are complaining that Kerry's not doing or saying something, they're not paying attention. In my view, when they say, "Kerry isn't saying thus and so," what they really mean is "I didn't see Kerry on CNN today saying what I think he should be saying." But the fact that you are not seeing hourly soundbites of Kerry blasting Bush and reaching voters on the cable networks does not mean that he's not doing it. He's doing just that in city after city, town after town - where it counts.

[mondo joe]

46. I'm paying enough attention to know he hasn't done enough in August

If he reverses things I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

But he has thus far not mastered the media or the fight.

[democratreformed]

43. I read on here that there were some money problems due to

campaign finance laws during the month of August. Didn't understand it in detail, but basically it had something to do with matching funds (maybe the spending limits attached to them?).

In the next two months, I don't believe what has started (fighting back) will stop.

Also, fighting back is not always visible and publicized. If you remember, during the primaries, Kerry did some things to fight back against his opponents that I, for one, didn't really hear about until AFTER he kicked their butt.

[private_ryan]

31. I agree

if he can't defend himself he doesn't deserve to be elected. period

[TakeBackUSA]

34. See my letter to the Kerry Campaign - its not too late

I know about Kerry's speech -it was great. But it wasn't on a National stage. Here is my letter:

*** Kerry : Opereation – Sink the Swift Boat Liars ***

It is not too late for the Kerry Campaign to debunk the swift boat Liars in a very public way.

Look, to people who investigate the facts, the Swift Boat Liars are already debunked. But the non-investigative types, meaning most of the population, are waiting for Kerry to make a case in a very public, slam-dunk way (ala the Nixon checkers speech).

Think of a classroom where the teacher gives a false date on an historic battle. 80% of the class will parrot the teacher and repeat false date as true. Maybe 20% will need to look it up and prove it false. They need to spell it out to the rest of the class, for everyone to know the truth. The Kerry campaign needs to spell it out to the people.

OK – Here is my idea of debunking the charges from these bums, or what I call : “Operation – Sink the Swift Boat Liars”

Schedule an hour on OPRAH. This will get a national audience, of the type of people that rely on others to do their research. It also can’t hurt to energize the black vote and women’s vote. Play it up for a few days :
”Kerry to answer swift boat charges – tune in Friday”.

Break the show up into four segments:

Segment 1: - Military Experts
Bring on Military officials to debunk the swift boat liars point by point, making sure they hit the following:
1. A soldier does not put in for his own medal, you are recommended by someone else.
2. Numerous accounts of enemy fire on the river, even in the commendations the other swifties got.
3. Read some of Kerry’s glowing recommendations – by current swifties.
4. Point out the numerous connections to the Bush campaign.
5. Etc.

Segment 2: - Jim Rassman
Have Rassman recount the event that saved his life. (Feel free to get emotional.)
1. Explain he has been a Republican, not connected with the Kerry campaign.
2. Recount the story.
3. Express outrage at the swifties attack, the purple heart band-aids at the RNC, etc.

Segment 3: Band of Brothers
Have the Band of Brothers recount their stories of Kerry’s leadership.
1. Tell their stories – debunk where appropriate.
2. Express outrage at the lies of the swifties.
3. Outrage at the tone of the RNC : purple heart band-aids, etc.

Segment 4: - John Kerry
Kerry comes out, alone with Oprah. Hit the following points:
1. Come out wearing the medals. (Will make for great photos.) He is proud of these medals that he earned fighting for his country.
2. Get mad. Get visibly irritated at the charges. Explain that he volunteered. (He should have done this immediately.) He doesn’t want to be a Dukakis and not get mad when someone speaks of your wife dying. Express outrage at the RNC, band-aids, etc.
3. Get Patriotic. You are attacking my patriotism and love of my country. I volunteered to fight – that was the depth of my commitment to this country. I fought for the flag and the freedoms it represents.
4. Explain his inaction. Explain that he and many in his campaign thought the swifties were so obviously false that they need not be responded to. But that now he feels the duty to explain to the people the true story. He is “turning the swiftboat into the attack”.
5. Bring X-Rays of his shrapnel. Magnify it to fill up 20% of a standard x-ray if necessary. This is the “money shot” the photo that will be replayed on the news, along with wearing the medals, and the Band of Brothers photo with Kerry at the end. “I carry this shrapnel to this day”- and here is the proof.
6. Bush is behind the Attacks. Don’t back off from pinning the attack to Bush. Remind everyone of the attacks on McCain (replay the smears from 2000 if possible). Again explain that he volunteered, and that Bush should be asked why he did not volunteer. Mention the “Champagne Unit”.
7. Attacks are because of his testimony. Explain that he feels many of the swifties are mad at his testimony, which he felt he had to do to protect the vets still in Vietnam.
8. Call for the Campaign back to Issues. Again, he felt this should have been debunked in the press already, but that now the campaign should return to the issues.

Ending Segment: Band of Brothers greeting Kerry (Lots of Hugs)

To ignore the swift boat liars, (or to make a speech that was not carried nationally – which gives the same effect), is ignoring the 2000 pound elephant in the room. People want to see how Kerry “fights back” and reacts under pressure – it doesn’t matter the truth or the circumstances. People want to make sure they are not electing a Carter (locked up in the White House during the hostage crisis), or a Dukakis (unemotional technocrat that can’t get mad at the thought of his wife being killed). He has to look like a fighter after all – that is how he was portrayed at the DNC. The latest tact of only talking about the economy makes Kerry look like he is avoiding the topic. He needs to show his ability to attack and shape the media.

He should do it before the Kitty Kelly book comes out, though. You don’t want to distract from the hornets nest that will stir up.

[NMDemDist2]

38. nice -- glad you sent it to the campaign n/t

[WI_DEM]

32. Send him a copy of Kerry's Springfield, Ohio speech

where he spoke at midnight after Bush's acceptance speech and the tore into Bush and Cheney like I never saw him do before as the liars and chicken hawks they are.

[seabeyond]

33. this is the stupidest for me

i really hate bush so much i want kerry to defend himself so he will win. ooops he isnt doing what i want so i will show him, not vote for him and bush can win, that will show him

that bottom line, you want bush

[Only Me]

48. I didn't want to sound negative...but the only other Kerry/Edwards

yard sign I've seen. Other than all mine!! Was removed from
their yard yesterday or today. I noticed it was gone today.
I'm not sure what that was about. But the sign with our local Dem was not removed.

[IdaBriggs]

49. Take him to a meeting. Send him a copy of the speech on Thursday.

Accept that this is normal -- we are ALL going to have our bad days when it seems like our guy isn't getting enough attention. The Republicans are better campaigners than we are. That means our team needs to do stuff to fix that. Since you are informed, send him a copy of the speech, and do what it takes to keep his spirits up. Money was an issue in August, and everyone in the campaign knew we were going to take hit, especially during the RNC. THIS IS YOUR WAKE-UP CALL!!! :)

[Zookeeper]

50. Didn't the Rethugs accuse Kerry...

of being wild-eyed or over-reacting when he objected to the Swift Boat ads a few weeks ago?

Kerry is going to be criticized by BushCo and their media lapdogs regardless of what he says. So, instead of defending himself, he should be engaged in aggressive truth-telling about Bush and the Neo-Cons.

[bhairava]

51. Your friend has a point

Despite the ususal cries from some here, Kerry used bad judgement in this matter. He can be called on it as it says a lot about his political instincts and how he'd handle the daily trashing he'll get from the right wing and its press minions should he win. He is supposedly mad with his campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill who advised him to wait it out because it'll blow over. He listened to her; he has since sunk in the polls and the swift boat liar's message was out there without rebuttal for a while,ergo the damage is done. Now he is said to be relying more on John Sasso who ran Dukakis's campaign(!) Again, I question the judgement of the whole lot of them! It doesn't take a genius to see the other side is utterly without honour and will call your mother a whore if necessary : see their nice comments about Clinton's mom and their trashing of JC Watts father in OK (which opened his eyes...). But, of course, Kerry didn't think Bush was going to go to war come hell or high water either! This will all be in to-morrow's Newsweek apparently, I read about it at : http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=280