Biden congratulated Ellen on her marriage, and emphatically stated he would vote NO

[gateley]

on Prop 8 if he lived in California (they just ran a short clip on MSNBC). I think the show with him airs on Monday.

[No Elephants]

1. Don't post stuff like this. After all, how many times can I post simply "I love Democrats" and

still hope to be considered totally unsentimental? I mean, how can I possibly stop posting that lately? First, a rree concert from Springsteen, then a free concert from James Taylor and now a devout Catholic like Biden again risks his right to receive Holy Communion to support human rights. Okay, you outed me. But it's worth it, just to keep saying it. I love Democrats.

[gateley]

2. ...

:-)

[terrya]

3. Good man!

:thumbsup:

[marshall]

4. I"m glad he's changed his mind since the VP debate

I felt like his true opinion was misconstrued in the debate--they made it sound like he opposed gay marriage like Palin does.

[gateley]

10. My interpretation is that I think he feels that gay marriage should be a decision

left up to the States -- that constitutionally it shouldn't be a federal decision.

[marshall]

18. Let the states decide on civil rights?

I guess it has to be dealth with issue by issue and nuance by nuance, but I'm glad the federal government stepped in on racial issues.

[gateley]

20. Well you know, you should ask Biden, not me. I was just giving my interpretation

and I'm often wrong.

[IndianaJones]

23. like voting and education? nt.

[Eric J in MN]

5. Is that consistent with what Joe Biden said in the VP debate?

====================

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html

GWEN IFILL: Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?

JOE BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.


=====================

But now he tells Ellen Degeneres that he'd vote against a California proposition to stop gay marriage.

[terrya]

6. Obama has come out against Prop 8.

[Eric J in MN]

7. Obama previously said that he didn't think the time was right yet for gay marriage, and...

...when Obama opposed Propositon 8, I assumed that meant Obama had decided that the time had arrived.

[RichardRay]

8. I don't see the inconsistency?

He may very well personally not believe in same sex marriage, but he may also believe that the state has no business trying to prevent it. It's a distinction we've lost in this country in recent years - institutionalizing my beliefs through law is always questionable.

[Eric J in MN]

9. So Joe Biden hopes that very few gay Californians will get married...

...like people who are pro-choice may hope that few women will have abortions?

[OnTheOtherHand]

15. no, I don't think that's it at all

Not that I can speak for the other poster, or for Biden.

I think Biden was trying to distinguish between religious marriage and the civil status of marriage/union. Two different things.

[RichardRay]

17. Yes, to the extent that characterizes the distinction betweent belief

and law. No to the extent that it suggests some sort of an equivalence between same sex marriage and abortion.

[Mother Of Four]

11. What I got from his answer in the debate-

Was that he supported the legal rights, but wanted to leave the RELIGIOUS items to the churches performing the ceremony.

Breaking it down like this:
The key word is "Marriage" which when everything is all said and done it really is only semantics. In the end it's a contract between two people, you apply for a license - and you sign on the dotted line. What I see the big hoopla to be, is the fundamentalists are mixing religious choice with the ability to share your life with someone.

In my eyes it needs to be treated like any other "Marriage" - A couple is no less married if they are Islamic, Jewish, Catholic or Non-Denominational. Religion should only enter into the contract by choice, not as a requirement to share your life. An Atheist couple going to the Justice of the Peace is no less married than a Baptist couple correct?

Another example- If a Catholic marries a Jewish person: To the LAW they are married, but to their respective churches they are not.

When looked at that way, it is a separation of church and state that needs to be applied. If people could get over the word "Marriage" and note that EVERY joining is a union- I don't think this would be as much of an issue as it is right now.

[OnTheOtherHand]

13. oops, you beat me ;)

I'll leave my response, which is very similar.

[Mother Of Four]

14. I was happy to see your post-

I read mine to my soon to be voting 18 year old :woohoo: and he said "I'm going to use that, I couldn't have said it better myself mama."

He's doing what I do...Talk and talk and talk to the seniors at his High School. This is one of the "single issues" they vote on. It's sad, but he and I are of the opinion that humans are adaptable if you give them the chance.

(Small town NC)

[OnTheOtherHand]

16. that's wonderful!

Absolutely, people learn from each other. There's been an awful lot of learning around this issue. Not all of it leads directly to changed Opinions -- obviously, many people still oppose same-sex marriage -- but a lot of the mindless animus is gone. (Don't get me wrong: I know there is still far too much.) Collectively, we're moving toward a consensus that it is more un-American to be homophobic than it is to be gay.

[Zhade]

24. "An Atheist couple going to the Justice of the Peace is no less married" - THANK YOU!

I'd gently mention that there's no need to capitalize atheist, but I digress - thank you so much for making the point I also like to make, which is that marriage is NOT exclusive to religion!

[OnTheOtherHand]

12. "redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage"

What Biden seems to be saying here is that he understands marriage as a religious institution, and so its definition should be "left to faiths and people who practice their faiths." Surely he is not suggesting that people's legal rights should be "left to faiths" -- he's solid on the Constitution.

What a lot of people think is that where laws refer to "marriage," they really should refer to "civil unions" (or words to the same effect) -- for everyone. Or, if they refer to "marriage," that should be understood in a civil sense logically distinct from religious marriage.

[Zhade]

21. That was a ridiculous comment - by his standard, atheists can't get married.

Good to hear he's woken up.

[galaxy21]

19. I think most high profile democrats are secretly for gay marriage

But coming out and saying it is far too risky.

[CreekDog]

22. More important than their stated positions are the judges that Obama will appoint

and how those judges will read the Equal Protection Clause in the US Constitution. i have no doubt that the type of judges Obama would appoint will not think you can deny equal protection to marriage on the basis of gender alone.