just came back from bipartisan protest and Repubs really do believe Obama is a "socialist:" WTF?

[zazen]

In Wake County, the two huge malls where there's early voting aren't allowing any "electioneering" in their parking lots (well beyond the 50 foot perimeter), so the Dem and Repub parties have joined to protest.

So, I stood there for a while with my Goldilocksish 8-year-old, who held the sign, between two non-screaming, non-death-threatening Republicans (to their credit) who were clearly having their circuits blown that a blonde professional-looking Cary mom with a "Prussian-Blue" looking daughter could possibly support Obama. I think I was supposed to look like a deadhead or a scythe-wielding, uniformed agitprop-style 400 pound communist.

Didn't I know that he's a SOCIALIST, they asked, in our polite Cary code? I calmly said how concerned I was about how secretly anti-American Palin was with her involvement in the Alaska secessionist party, and that McCain wasn't the "maverick" he used to be, and that Bush was buying up government and was the real socialist. (I don't believe anything this simplistic, but I was trying to get them to open their minds a bit.) I asked, well did they believe FDR was a socialist (thinking surely they'd say no) and they said, yes, "that's what got us into this mess. FDR actually CAUSED the Great Depression with his policies. We were coming out of hard economic times until he started with his government programs and we've never been the same ever since. Government shouldn't pay for education or our medicine. They're all corrupt and Obama will make us completely socialist and we'll never be able to go back once we set down that path." I kept suggesting that there's a big area between regulated capitalism and socialism, but they'd have none of it. There are apparently "100 economists" who say he's going to make the country totally socialist, and that's that.

We politely parted ways with lots of "good lucks" and "nice meeting you" and "so good to have a civil discussion" about these topics, and no doubt she's going back to her group saying, Obama's brainwashed the Cary soccer moms. That poor little girl!

Fun morning.

[Danieljay]

1. Just counter with the term "Corporate Socialism" the bailout representing the redistribution of

wealth to the rich.

Regardless, who the eff cares what Rethugs think, they aren't voting for Obama anyway.

[ericgtr]

2. The RW media machine plugs this 24/7

They prey on the weak minded, that would be all those ignorant protesters we see every day.

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Yes, I live right next to Cary, and have heard repeatedly that this current crisis...

is the fault of FDR's policies coming home to roost.

[zazen]

8. Yep-even to many Repubs, the terrorist label is too much, but "socialist" works well

I think it's the one that's sticking. The leaders are throwing out anything and everything hoping it would stick, but this does nicely as a hate-based rallying cry for the incendiary opposition to Obama should he win (and even if he doesn't). Fascist hasn't really worked (hits too close to home), despite their trying to call Feminists and Muslims fascists. Terrorist is clearly over the top and doesn't appeal to "nice" Republicans, who require a slightly more complex set of rationalizations than their more troglodyte extremists. But "socialism"--that's PERFECT.

To them,

"Socialism" means everything they hate about Europe (and the highly educated and politically more sophisticated), which they can retroactively use as the rationale for why we fought for independence in the first place (forget that in the 1770s Britian had a limited monarchy and class-based parliamentary system.)

"Socialism" doesn't mean terrorism but it means giving into terrorism.

"Socialism" means tolerating gays and eradicating religion.

"Socialism" is code for helping the poor--especially minorities.

And "socialism," with its ties to communism, will to many of them justify a more extreme response, unlike liberalism, which only justified their venomous hate.

[kestrel91316]

3. In their black-and-white way of thinking, you are either a

FREEDOM-LOVER, i.e. in favor of unfettered free market capitalism and a christofascist theocracy, or you are a SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST. There is nothing in between.

[treestar]

4. Liberals espouse regulation of capitalism, not socialism

The RW just tries to create a smear by extending the definition of "socialism" to include it. Refer them to the dictionary. Government owns the means of production under socialism. That would mean the government runs the entire economy.

Even welfare or other means of wealth redistribution is possible under a regulated capitalist economy. Those things may be socialistic in nature, but their existence does not mean we have "socialism." The capitalists may be regulated via taxes but the government does not own the companies.

[Zomby Woof]

6. That's their new tack

Back in 1980, the worst epithet that even Reagan himself could muster was "tax-and-spend liberals". That sounds quaint in comparison to the toxic fear and smear these days. Now, we're all "radical socialists" who will confiscate all your money, guns, and property.

Fear is their currency. It is true that back in FDR's day he was labelled a 'socialist' and the like, but conservatism was passe after the 1920's laissez-faire orgy, so it didn't have as much impact (otherwise, he wouldn't have been re-elected 3 times with broad support). In the era of 24/7 talk radio and Fox News Big Lie propaganda, it's drilled into malleable fear-ridden people with unrelenting repetitiveness. People now use "socialist" as an epithet in such dark tones as to make McCarthy sound like a moderate liberal. Of course, these loons don't even know what "socialist" means. The ones I know at work who throw that label around make $12.00 an hour and get the EITC and other tax goodies (they quit talking politics with me when I pointed that out). Fear and greed. Base, selfish impulses, spoon-fed with remarkable efficiency.

Obama is basically proposing two things when it comes to tax policy: A tax cut for 95% of us, and a rollback of Bush's tax cuts for the other 5%. A restoration of sane Clinton era fiscal policy! If the prosperity and growth across the board of the 90's was 'socialism', I am trying to figure out how that curtailed the wealth or freedom of the rich in any way. They cleaned up in the 90's.

All they have is fear and the gross misuse of a label they don't even understand. Obama's success is like lifting a rock and seeing all the bugs and vermin allowed to breed in the dark all these years, exposed to the bright light of hope and truth, and they HATE it. Hate, fear, and greed. Currency in need of 'change'.

I am never going to make it to November 4. :-)

[progressivebydesign]

7. We need to call these folks on this "socialism" charge. Ask them to defi?ne it!

I'm tired of this "socialist" crap. I'd say that we all read up on the exact definition of it.. and every time we're greeted with that charge, we ask... what's your definition of Socialist? (as in "in what respect, Charlie?" 9 times out of 10 they will get it wrong. It's a talking point word that they hear on the radio... These people have no idea what a socialist really is. It's the modern version of the ridiculous Commie charge. I say we call them on it. My response has been that, plus asking them how the bailout was anything BUT corporate socialism? Or I talk about corporate welfare, and offshore tax shelters which cost US millions and millions.

[Joanne98]

9. They're lying!

[Sugarcoated]

10. RW radio

must be pounding this. I got into a political discussion with the woman who cuts my hair. I know she's a conservative catholic type, anti choice is major for her, but for the most part she's not very political. Not only did she say she was afraid to put a McShame sign on her lawn (my Hanutty listening brother was whining about this, too), but she righteously exclaimed, "He's a socialist! I don't want a socialist government, that's not right!", like, that was her biggest problem with Obama. She was willing to have a civil discussion, so I reasoned that just because there are socialist policies (which we've had for years) it doesn't make us, GULP, a socialist republic or something. We need a balance of ideologies for a healthy working government.

But back to the point, this shit is pumped into them by Limbo and Hanutty and Medved. I know it's difficult, but I think it's handy to listen or watch FOX Repub News once in a while so you can have a heads up on the BS you may have to combat. I've found it essential in discussing politics with my RW brothers, among others.

[zazen]

11. wonder if KO and RM would focus on their "socialism" demonizing strategy for a week

just to clarify that to many real socialists, Obama is a centrist. I tried to explain that to the Repubs today, just to drive a final wedge in.

KO and RM seem to be giving the other journalists the guts to ask these questions. It'd be nice if they'd analyze this emergent RW meme proactively and regularly, because seriously, if 20 million guntoting whipped up people (or are there more?) truly believe we're having a "socialist takeover," a small percentage ARE going to think violence is justified, more than just the regular racist, hate-filled crazies. That's what worries me if this is allowed to grow more roots.

[busymom]

12. well, some of his ideas are socialist...

That isn't necessarily a BAD thing though.

My dad came at me with the same argument about the whole 'joe the plumber' and spread the wealth around quote to tell me that Obama was a "commy, pinko, socialist". I said that it might be true that he has an ideology that represents socialism when it comes to the care and keeping of people....but that the republicans want socialism for big businesses. Capitalism on the way up, socialism on the way down for fat cats.

[zazen]

13. I agree--limited socialism _is_ good. But they're using the term to carry many other messages.

Hell, I hope he does bring in the best of European socialism, while keeping some of the best of American entrepreneurialism and competitiveness. I've seen too many govt employee systems that reward mediocrity. I believe that you've got to build some competitiveness in or the deadwood will pull down the rest. Spoken like a true American workaholic!.

Might as well usher it all in, if he's going to be ruthlessly attacked for it.

And faithbased funding is fine, so long as the socialist Catholics, unitarians, and other liberal religious groups get their share.

[sandnsea]

16. Capitalism requires "seed money"

We see what happens when the banks can't provide enough seed money. All that Obama is talking about is making sure the 95% have access to the same kind of "seed money" the wealthiest do. It's not socialism. It's investing in people, who are still needed to innovate and discover and prosper.

[stillcool]

14. Fox News

[Waiting For Everyman]

15. So they still want no regulation? Even with $500 trillion in swaps "out there"?

Wait until they get the bill for THAT. We haven't even dealt with that yet.

I hold voters like them directly and personally responsible, along with the financial perps and politicians who enabled it.

Well too bad for these financially-challenged voters, there WILL be regulation no matter who is President, because there will still be a Dem majority of adults in Congress.

[kwolf68]

17. You have to understand

EVERYONE who is a Democrat is a socialist to these people.

I flip back for you to 1992, Bill Clinton, who would prove to eventually be one of our more moderate/centrist politicians (at least on many issues) was running for the White House.

THEY SAID THE SAME THING about Clinton...he was a marxist, he protested American in the Soviet Union, etc...etc...it was nothing more than scare tactics. Clinton was not a socialist, he advanced trappings of a mixed economy, which most often prove to be the best compromise of social power and corproate 'freedom'.

When Clinton was running, the Republicans said he was a commie...he was elected and these people were proven invalid.

When Bush was running, us Dems said he was an imperalist, economy wrecking, environmental wrecking buffoon. WE were proven CORRECT.

In short, Republicans are simply full of shit.

[4themind]

18. It's just flailing Anti-Democratic Party rhetoric, not Pro-McCain IMO

McCain hasn't come out against Progressive taxation as a concept, they just disagree on which percentages should be payed by whom. Any arbitrary labelling on what percentage is sufficient to make someone a "socialist" is entirely their own and I would suspect its just used to make a one-way characterization against Obama, it's not a relatively strong Pro-McCain position IMO. It's so over the top as to not have a measurable effect on undecideds IMO, especially when they just blurt the words out, and don't make comparisons between Obama and McCain using quantifiable markers.It may almost be like if they just blurted out that Obama was a space alien.