Breaking -- Kerry Furious With Cahill

[ruggerson]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040905/nysu013_2.html

<snip>

NEW YORK, Sept. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- As Senator John Kerry's campaign reeled from tough attacks against his military record by a group of hostile Vietnam vets, his campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill and other staffers argued that the Swift Boat ads would blow over. But, as Newsweek reports in the September 13 issue (on newsstands Monday, September 6), Kerry had had enough. For three or four days, as he campaigned across the country, Kerry ripped into Cahill, furious that the mostly baseless attacks on his valor were driving his numbers down.

"He was very angry," one old friend says. "The calculation had been made that this wasn't going to hurt him," report Washington Correspondent Richard Wolffe and General Editor Susannah Meadows. Kerry's solution was to reach for an old ally. "Get Vallely," he screamed. Thomas Vallely is the leader of the pack of vets that Kerry calls his dog-hunters, a group that has beaten back the attacks on his Vietnam record since his first Senate race 20 years ago. "He knows that I know the other players," Vallely says of Kerry's Mayday call. "He knows that I also like this stuff." The return of the old warriors marked a turning point in the Swift Boat controversy, and a rare moment when Kerry stamped his authority on a drifting campaign, reports Newsweek. "OK, time to break out the fatigues. We've been there, done that. Time to do it again," says David Thorne, Kerry's close friend, of the mood among the senator's inner circle.

[LTR]

1. Now let's see him share that anger on the stump

It ain't over yet. He can rebound.

[Nashyra]

5. Screw the rebound

He's just getting started. Calculated "let them think they can win"
That's my line and I'm stickin with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LTR]

10. No arguement here

I like your enthusiasm.

I wish more people here would share it, but hey, it gives the lurking wingnuts some false hope.

[unblock]

2. does the repuke spin machine ever stop??

not 'kerry showing leadership'
not 'kerry taking charge of his campaign'
not 'kerry relishing a fight'

no:
'kerry is angry'
'kerry furious'
'kerry ripped into cahill'
note that kerry is mad at his own guys, not at the opposition.

oy vey!

[paulk]

8. exactly.

I wonder if any of this is true.

The media (and Republican) spin on all this is so obvious... Kerry can't even control or lead his campaign, how can he possibly lead the country? And people are falling for it. Many people here on DU are not only falling for it, they are cheerleading for it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

20. The gullible go for this like red meat.

As well as those weak-minded individuals who are unable to keep their eyes on the target, George Bush.

[John_H]

22. C'mon. These stories are not from the GOP and we both know it.

These stories are coming straight out of the Democratic party, possibly even the campaign. What started out as unsourced backgrounders now feature people speaking on the record, all saying the same thing. Are you arguing Ron Fournier made up dem sources in his Thursday piece? Are you saying Ikes, Carville, Carrick, et. al GOP moles? Was Carville talking out his ass today on Russert?

You judo chess masters are going to have to come up with better spin than that or only the weak-minded will be able to keep themselves from laughing at you.

[Cheswick2.0]

34. LOL

I think the weak minded are those that can't stand the idea that we pain in the ass whiners were right all along. Kerry, Carville and Ickes all agree with us.

[MrBenchley]

52. Too too funny...

The Republican campaign is an utter disaster...so they have to pretend the trouble's in the Kerry camp....

[Cheswick2.0]

67. intentional blindness is not a virtue

check my post count. If you are suggesting I would build up 17k posts over a three year period just so I could post republican talking points NOW, you have way too much confidence in my patience.

[TeacherCreature]

27. It is because we all want to DEFEAT Goerge Bush that so many are concerned

"Loyalty" should not and does not demand that we refrain from criticizing the present strategy when it seems to require changes.

If we go down that road, we run the risk of turning ourselves into mindless zombies--or worse, into Republicans.

[Scairp]

24. Sounds dubious to me

If he were really that angry at her, what is she still doing there, running the campaign? No, while I'm sure they had some animated discussions about how this matter was handled, I highly doubt he was that angry. I'm sure he is saving his anger for the Smear boat liars and Shrub and his minions.

[mbali]

48. I don't buy this story. Kerry is very discreet and very loyal -

I doubt that, even if he were angry with Cahill, that this story would have leaked. He keeps things very close to his vest (remember his selection of John Edwards?). If this story really came from the Kerry camp, it was a deliberate leak that Kerry approved in order to send a message - perhaps to shut up the whiners who are bitching about Mary Beth.

[TeacherCreature]

50. Kerry is not the only person in his campaign who talks to the press

If this really was a GOP leak it (as some suggest) it probably would not have made the rounds--my bet is that one or more persons connected with the campaign leaked it.

Besides, as you acknowledge, for some of us "whiners" the idea of a "Shake-Up" in what has lately seemed a poorly-run campaign comes as a WELCOME sign.

[mbali]

68. That's not my point . . .

Kerry runs a tight ship and it does not leak inside information about Kerry's deliberations with his senior staff unless Kerry wants that information out. If Kerry were really furious with Mary Beth, this is not the kind of thing that everyone in the campaign would know - only Kerry's closest advisers would be privy to this information and they would not leak, unless it was part of a strategy that Kerry approved.

Think about it - if Kerry were truly as angry with Mary Beth Cahill for "mismanaging" his campaign as this story suggests, imagine how pissed off he must be upon reading that one of his campaign people leaked inside information about his feelings, strategy and dealings with his closest staff members.

As I said, I don't buy it this story at all.

[Neecy]

31. yep

...and don't forget this one:

"Get Vallely," he screamed.

Screamed? Makes him sound out-of-control and wildeyed.

Media whore spin. Nauseating.

[Hippo_Tron]

42. My mom asked me what they meant by a "shake-up" in the campaign

I replied: Mom, they make this crap up.

[TeacherCreature]

66. This is not GOP spin.

It appears to be a legitmate story.

Take a look around.

[Pepperbelly]

3. Cahill should have known how the media would jump on it.

Terrible miscalculation.

[mzmolly]

4. We knew Kerry had it in him. Hire Carville or Begala!

Keep Cahill in a different position, she blew it big time.

[Clinton Crusader]

7. anyone have an email for Carville besides going through Crossfire?

:kick:

[Jackpine Radical]

17. Screw Carville.

Carville is a hack whose only deep-seated values are self-aggrandizement and personal prosperity. That's why he and Matalin make it so well together. They're the same kind of whores, just specializing in different sides of the street.

[mbali]

47. Carville is smart as hell, but NO sane candidate would want him to manage

their campaign today. He managed some Senate races back in the day, but a Senate campaign is very different from a presidential race. And Carville was not a public figure back then. He is far too high profile, high-paid, high-strung and probably high-maintenance to run a presidential race today. Not a knock on him at all - I adore him. But campaign management is a down-and-dirty, unglamorous job that requires exquisite attention to detail, people skills, 36-hour days, a soft touch at times, a sledgehammer approach at others and constant juggling of balls. I doubt that James Carville would ever even consider doing that kind of job today. He's much better as a surrogate rather than managing a huge operation in which a major responsibility is to make sure the trains run on time. And no candidate would want a loose cannon - regardless how smart and aggressive - like Carville steering the helm.

[a new day]

64. Are we talking about the same James Carville?

In 1991, Carville - who had already become prominent in political circles - drew national attention when he managed Senator Harris Wofford from 40 points behind in the polls to an upset landslide over former Pennsylvania Governor and U.S. Attorney General Richard Thornburgh. With the startling and unpredictable win, Carville had exposed the political vulnerability of George Bush, who had been enjoying 91% approval ratings during the Gulf War.

Having wounded the sitting President in 1991, Carville finished the job the following year, when he guided William Jefferson Clinton to the Presidency in 1992. Carville was honored as Campaign Manager of the Year by the American Association of Political Consultants for his leadership of Clinton's fearsome and intense "War Room" at campaign headquarters in Little Rock. Carville was also the focus, along with George Stephanopoulos, of the feature-length Academy Award nominated documentary The War Room.

After the Clinton victory, Carville began to focus on foreign consulting. Since that time, Carville's political clients have included the following: Greek Prime Minister Constantine Mitsotakis; Brazilian President Fernando Enrique Cardoso; Honduran Prime Minister Carlos Flores; President Jamil Mahuad of Ecuador; the Liberal Party of Canada; British Prime Minister Tony Blair; Sao Paulo Mayor Celso Pitta; Argentine Economic Minister Domingo Carvallo; Francis Labastida of Mexico; Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago Basdeo Panday; and President Hipolito Mejia of the Dominican Republic. In 1999, Carville led Ehud Barak to Victory in his campaign to become Prime Minister of Israel.

[Cronus Protagonist]

32. I like Carville, but I wouldn't trust him with any secrets

Not while he's literally sleeping with the enemy.

Lick Laura's Bush - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[mzmolly]

39. Ya got a point their, but then again ... he may know some secrets too

;)

[Cronus Protagonist]

69. True, so let's not tell him any, but ask him about the wife's

Not that she's got any kind of the same cache that Carville has.

Lick Laura's Bush - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Cheswick2.0]

35. I'd be interested to know if she is the person

who suggested his answer to the IWR question.

[mzmolly]

38. Sheesh, who ever suggested that answer should be canned.

Though, I defended him on it b/c Bush is the ultimate reason we went to Iraq.

The answer was pityfull. If I were him I'd say "I'll discuss my real feelings about this war when our troops are home safe." I think that's a key issue for him given his Vietnam experience?

[TeacherCreature]

41. Another stupid and avoidable mistake, I think we can ALL agree.

He should have said "no" and just left it at that.

Instead, he had to endure a month of attacks and easy-to-make distortions of his true position.

[MikeG]

6. Read my post from June and the response here - I'm friggin psychic.

I wanted Carville in June after the stupid McCain as VP overtures.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=546036


And look who raised the biggest fuss.

Know any of them?

[senseandsensibility]

13. Do you remember who the deleted messages were from?

Just basically being nosy, but it might be interesting. What's also interesting is the fact that some people still haven't changed their tune. It's Daddy(the campaign) knows best, let the "professionals" handle it, you're too dumb to understand all the way. Results be damned.

[MikeG]

15. I will let that bygone be a bygone.

[Malva Zebrina]

18. a lot of people, honest people, expressing the obvious have been

hurt by people calling them whiners, accusing them of all sorts of terrible things,the worst was that they were trolls come here to invade the forums, berating them, sneering at them--demagogues who made them victims, demanding we get a grip and all sort of other hurtful accusations. It was painful to read and watch.

In a recent article in Salon by Mary Jacoby (George Bush's Missing Year}, there appeared her article on the interview with Mrs. Allison, the one who revealed all the little details of how George Bush was an embarrassmnet to his father, so in order to remove him from the Texas scene, where he was cutting up, he was transferred to Alabama. There was a comment in that article on how people get caught up in a rush of being connected to awesome power and the ones who wield it.

"But it was also this sense of being connected to a larger, more powerful force that seduced the Allisons -- a trap that many aides and friends of important politicians fall into. The dynamic allowed the Bushes -- Barbara especially, Allison said -- to manipulate the friends and supporters they needed to further their ambitions, a lesson she says could not have been lost on the young George. "They had a way of anointing you, then pushing you out," she said. "It was like a mind game. It was very subtle, very hard to describe. But when you were out, you wanted desperately to be let back in." It was how she and Jimmy felt when, in 1973, they experienced a strange and, to Allison, never fully explained rupture with the Bushes, which took place against the backdrop of boorish behavior by their son that persisted during the time he was nominally under the Allisons' care."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/02/allison/index.html (you may need to watch a bee flying around the screen advertising Salon for a few minutes in order to access the article, if you have not already read it.)

My point is that automatic, blind cheerleading, disregarding the faults, actually only makes oneself feel good--it does and did not help Kerry, as many now may realize.

It is too bad that the self righteous attack occurred on those who began to express their anxiety and dismay at the way the campaign was being run. The moral of the story is, perhaps, to read all points of view and make up your own mind--do the research instead of blindly thrusting your heart and mind into supporting our candidate to the point where ignoring the reality and worse hurting others posting here, is the unfortunate result.

Those whose intuition was correct and was not clouded by demagoguery, saw the handwriting on the wall, did the homework and posted their comments.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. Acttually it looks like you panicked then and you're panicking now.

You were wrong in the primaries, you were wrong in June, and you're wrong now.


At least you're consistent.

[TeacherCreature]

25. Too much complacency may also be a mistake.

It is one thing to caution against self-destructive fits of panic.

But it is quite another to continuously deny that something might be wrong or that changes might improve the performance of the campaign.

No one in their right mind can deny that the campaign has taken some serious hits in the past three weeks.

The issue is not whether this has occured, but rather WHAT is the BEST way to respond for the best chance of winning.

I wish I had the answer, and I hope that the Kerry campaign has a plausible strategy.

But this game of denouncing any and all criticism of the campaign's recent tactics makes no sense to me.

[Cheswick2.0]

37. It makes no sense to me either

:shrug:

[TeacherCreature]

43. I think it is the unfortunate product of a well-intentioned desire

...the desire to BEAT BUSH and ELECT KERRY, a desire which we all share.

Maybe their fear of the disastrous consequences of Bush "re"-election is so great that some of our colleagues feel compelled to stifle even the slightest hint of TACTICAL criticism during the course of this campaign...

In any case, I hope that the people involved in the campaign ITSELF are a lot more willing to discuss and amend strategies as the situation develops.

We are going to need a skilled, flexible, vigilant, aware, gutsy, and responsive effort if we REALLY intend to beat these Bush bastards.

[MikeG]

26. How's it feel? I was right. You were wrong.

[Democat]

60. Classic thread and there are plenty more like it!

Some people are optimistic to a fault.

[FloridaPat]

9. Isn't 25 years of this crap enough to convince them to fight?

Why are they so dense.

[barbaraann]

11. "Blow Over???!!!???"

It's unbelievable that anyone could think that.

[Paradise]

12. Who still believes everything they read???

And haven't we learned our lessons about what Kerry's 'OLD FRIENDS' say???

"He was very angry,' one old friend says." :crazy:

[Old and In the Way]

14. Exactly.....this is classic Republican manipulation of the story.

Designed to get Democrats fighting amongst ourselves. Will we ever learn?

[JI7]

16. it's story is about cahill and anger, rather than anger about the LIES

from the swift boat assholes.

[Paradise]

19. Promulgating trouble in the campaign is ANOTHER SMEAR TACTIC!

They've got a million of 'em!

What's that old saying about throwing sh*t up against a wall???

hi :hi: lurking and posting repukes :)

[TeacherCreature]

30. This does not seem to be coming from the pukes.

The campaign has been going through a rough patch and some of the issues are inevitablty leaking out.

I have to wonder if some of you guys consider ANY discussion of mistakes or changes in strategy to be inherently disloyal....

Refusal to entertain or discuss issues and concerns is something one expects from the fascists in the Repuke party, but is not at all attractive or becoming when it issues forth from our fellow Democrats.

[Paradise]

33. Thanks TC, I deserved that! :)

Today is one of those rare days when I'm feeling kind of ornery.

But if it is true, I am a believer that the "buck stops at the top"
and that goes for Kerry, as well as for *.

We certainly haven't seen it from *!

In any event, infighting is not good.

I don't drink but I might need one and, perhaps, make an exception today. O8)

[TeacherCreature]

44. No problem, my friend. We are all in this one together.

It is pretty clear that from this time on, this is going to be a TOUGH campaign and we all have to do everything we can to give us the best shot at victory.

Discussing and critcizing campaign strategies is not the same thing as defeatism--it is PART OF THE EFFORT we must ALL make to win this!!!!

[sandnsea]

36. Exactly

I cannot believe how gullible and naive people are. It's like the primaries never happened. Good grief.

[MrBenchley]

29. Exactly....

The Republicans can't put their presidential slate in front of the public without demanding written loyalty oaths....

The Republicans have to hide their convention's keynote speaker from the public because he turned out to be "batshit crazy," as Jon Stewart pointed out.

The Republicans have openly written off Illinois and are desperately trying to silence their Senate candidate there.

The Republicans openly mocked veterans, the unemployed, and anyone who worries about their job or health care costs at their convention.

The Republicans could not come up with a single reason for anyone to vote FOR them in four days of speechifying.

The Republicans spent a fortune on a negative ad campaign that has become a scandal...for THEM.

And this story is trying to pretend the Kerry camapign...currently touring the country and speaking to overflow crowds, is "a near death experience" and that the only answer is to "go negative."

[DemMother]

45. I think it's more about the reporters trying to gin up the story

There probably is a grain of truth in it somewhere, but to quote unnamed sources and to use words like "screamed" are the writers' choices--writers who are looking for what?...Maybe an appearance on Fox, CNN, MSNBC--where they can talk about the turmoil in the Kerry campaign to Chris Matthews. Who knows.

I also think this is inside politics and most people don't give a damn about it. Except political junkies. Most people couldn't tell you the name of Kerry's campaign manager--just like most people had no clue who managed Clinton's campaign (a fact demonstrated by a recent DU post). In a few weeks, everyone will think Kerry's campaign manager is Joe Lockhart.

[Blue_Roses]

57. wouldn't you be if you were watching your campaign

sink because of "bad advice" when you know in your gut you should have taken a different route. Kerry hasn't won past elections on being "passive". I for one am GLAD to see him GET ANGRY. I want him to get REAL ANGRY. Rove is one ruthless bastard and Mary Beth seems in over her head with his pranks.

Keryy knows this. The worm is turning...:bounce:

[AmerDem]

23. Unleash the hounds...

and let the fun begin!:bounce: :kick: :bounce: :kick:

[DaveSZ]

28. Hire Carville

[oasis]

40. Take w/grain of salt and call me in the morning.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DaveinMD]

49. what are you talking about

Kerry is on the attack. Internals have him down 4, which is perfectly fine for just after the Republican convention. Chill out.

[GOPAgainstGW]

51. ***BULLSHIT ALERT** YAHOO IS VERY PRO BUSH-GOP & FRAUDLENT!!

Be very careful reading anything from these clowns! Last week the Bush-GOP planted two totally bogus and fraudlent articles via Yahoo.

------------------------------
Beltway and Texas Republicans
Against Bush-Cheney ’04, Inc.
------------------------------

[GOPAgainstGW]

53. * * WARNING!!!! THIS YAHOO ARTICLE IS A FRADULENT GOP "PLANT" !!!!!!

PER OUR LICENSED PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR THAT TRIED TO VERIFY THE STORY!

This is the 5th bogus GOP "plant" article in 3 days.

------------------------------
Beltway and Texas Republicans
Against Bush-Cheney ’04, Inc.
------------------------------

[Sparkly]

56. Please explain

Did it not come from Newsweek or newswire?

[necso]

58. I believe that you may be right.

Reading the "Press" these days is much like reading the old Soviet "Press".

And remember they used to say: "There is no truth in Truth, and there is no news in News". (Referring to the two major Soviet news sources.)

One has to learn to decode the "news". This article is generally negative in tone, and paints a negative picture of the Kerry campaign, its players and their fortunes. The perfect thing to get all the Kerry-should-do-this BS flaring up again.

The lone piece of "news" in this article may be that Kerry is recovering from the Swift Boat Lies. And you would have to read this into the article.

But of course, as a reader of the Soviet Press, this is something that you can get pretty good at.

Thanks, GOPAgainstGW

[Julien Sorel]

54. Kerry sure does look strong and decisive

in this article. I think we owe Cahill more than a lot of people will ever know.

[topanga]

55. Anyone trash Talking MaryBeth is an obvious mysogenist! ntxt.

[Teaser]

59. Or they could just like competence (nt)

nt

[TeacherCreature]

61. NOW THAT WILL PITT HAS POSTED THE SAME STORY-can we please

RETIRE the canard that this is Repuke disinformation, and that the people who are posting about it are Repug moles?

Thank you.

[WilliamPitt]

62. Then again

I could very well have fallen for it, too.

[TeacherCreature]

63. But the people trust you, Will....

When peons like us post things like this, we have to be prepared to run for cover.

[0rganism]

65. Or you might be a GOPerative!

Was it you wearing those Groucho Marx glasses in the RNC Massachusetts delegation? Hmmm? You were spotted in NYC at the time, we have video of your collaboration with admitted republican activists...

J'accuse!