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For anyone who's hand-wringing please take a look at these graphs between 2004 and 2008

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Godhumor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 01:57 AM
Original message
For anyone who's hand-wringing please take a look at these graphs between 2004 and 2008
Obama-McCain, electoral votes from states where the candidate has at least a 5% advantage:



Kerry-Bush, electoral votes from states where the candidate has at least a 5% advantage:



Polls will fluctuate, and McCain may get movement back towards him. However, I hope we can all agree that we're in a much, much better position than in 2004 (images from electoral-vote.com)
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Jeez, look at the "Swiftboat effect"
:wow:
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. JK waited way to long to fight back. Luckily Obama hits back in hours not weeks
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. I have news- Obama was losing because the campaign refused to define McCain or Palin
they weren't fighting hard at all in that respect. Had the McCain campaign AND the economy not both gone into epic meltdowns, we'd have been looking at very different sort of race.
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shotten99 Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. I appreciate seeing these things
If you lived through 1980, 1984, 1988 and needless to say the last two (and hell, even most of the 92 election) you'd be quick to wring your hands too:P

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Godhumor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I just think so many people have "invested" in Obama this year
That fluctuations can cause panic. None of us wants to see a loss here, but there is a stark and real difference between this cycle and the past one.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. 84 & 88 Weren't Particularly Close
And 92 was only close for a couple of days in late October...
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shotten99 Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Not at all, but they were agonizing weren't they?
I remember just hoping something would turn around which never did:P
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm a hand-wringer, so I appreciate your post as well.
Edited on Sun Oct-19-08 02:48 AM by Fluffdaddy
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. I think they left something out of the second graph:
October 29, 2004 - Bin Laden video released. "President Bush opened up a six-point lead over his opponent Senator John Kerry in the first opinion poll to include sampling taken after the videotape was broadcast."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Osama_bin_Laden_video

But yes, we're in better position now than 2004.

Knock on wood.
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mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. we also have a lot more money and volunteers.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
10. The "fly in the ointment" here...
...is that you're using EV calculations to judge the current state of the race, when they tend to lag behind national poll results by a week or even two.

The reason for this is simple: there's a new tracking poll (or six) every day, but not a new poll for every single state. In most cases, at this late stage of the campaign, a survey organization will poll every key state once a week at most (earlier in the race, it might be every two weeks or every month), so any shifts in popular sentiment will take up to a week to show up.

For example, take a look at the Swift-Boat ads, issued at a time when states were being polled, at most, every two weeks. For about that amount of time after the release of the ads, Kerry's EV standing actually went up -- but it was a mirage, because it was still based largely on pre-Swift-Boat state polling data. Once those polls "caught up" with the ads in most states, Kerry dropped like a rock.

Similarly, look at the RNC this year. If you recall, Obama's lead (from his convention bounce) began dropping by about the third day of the RNC, and McCain was ahead in the tracking polls by the weekend, a couple of days after his acceptance speech. But he didn't actually catch up to and surpass Obama in EV until about a week after that, when state polls caught up. (You'll notice a similar phenomenon after the 2004 RNC, only stretched out a bit because there weren't so many updated-every-week state polls back then.)

In fact, it's interesting to take each dramatic event in this year's race, and see what happened to the EV precisely one week after the event in question. Obama started building his lead a week or so after the Wall Street meltdown. He had another jump in the EV about a week or so after his first debate win (notice that it happened just before the "town hall debate").

My suspicion is that, if you were to graph the tracking-poll average versus this EV chart, you'd be seeing a tracking-poll jump around a week before each similar jump in EV, and a similar mirroring of drops.

What this tells me is that the "end-points" of the red and blue lines on the current chart actually reflect Obama's win in the town hall debate (and his almost immediate jump thereafter in the national polls), not anything that's happened since then. We know that the national polls have been tightening. I think we'll have to wait a week to see if that has had any effect in the EV count.

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