OK, so I finally had a long talk with my close repub friend.

[wildeyed]

We talked genuinely for about an hour about her views and mine on the upcoming presidential race. For some background, my friend and I are not all the far apart issue by issue. I am a bit more liberal than she, but not a whole bunch. But she ALWAYS votes repub and I ALWAYS vote dem.

The main difference is, I found, her family, especially her mom, are rabidly conservative. It feels like a betrayal for her to vote democratic. My family is all dem, except maybe one uncle, and he doesn't discuss it much.

She was raised in a christian household. I think all the christian imagery the pubs use really gets to her, even though she is not conscious of it. I was raised in a secular household, so I am immune to the imagery. Means nothing to me.

She is not all that well informed. I kept asking her why she believed something was true, and she would say, wow, you are tough. Trust me, I was not tough. I am, if anything, too well informed these days.

She feels loyalty to the Republican party. I feel loyalty to the Democratic party.

Here is something I found interesting about myself after having this conversation. I would be MORE likely to consider a repub candidate now that I have been posting on this site for awhile. Why? Well because I am better informed and I trust myself to make decisions. I am not relying on my party to make decisions for me anymore. (Although I still love what the dems stand for, always will.)

So in conclusion, I don't know whether I won any hearts and minds for Kerry today, but I opened a line of communication and improved one of my personal relationships to boot. I also see more and more, we are not really that far apart in this country, just seeing the world through different lens.

[Poiuyt]

1. I think most Americans would average to the middle somewhere

You might be liberal on one issue and conservative on another issue, but you'd think that it would average out and we would all fall under the classic bell curve. The problem is that our political leaders tend to be more on the extreme sides.

[belle]

2. Per the Christian influence, you might want to direct her here:

www.sojo.net

"Christians for Peace and Justice." It's a progressive Christian site that talks a lot about the political co-opting of Christ's message (especially by the R party, natch).

You might consider also gently reminding her that she's her own person, and that who she votes for isn't a "betrayal" of her family (or anyone else) just because they disagree. She doesn't even have to tell anyone who she votes for, you know? unless she wants to, of course. It's really no one's business but hers. That would be the American way. Remind her that even though you know she's voted Republican all these years, you've never considered it a "betrayal;" you're still friends. You're arguing with her because you disagree with her, rather passionately, and you HOPE you can convince her to see things your way, but even if she decides to vote Republican after all--it's her decision, and you'll still be friends.

[wildeyed]

3. I will forward the website to her.

In addition, I would be interested in something about anti-abortion democrats. This particular friend is pro-choice, but I know a number of people who don't like Bush, but won't vote Kerry b/c of the abortion issue. I need a convincing argument that banning abortion won't make it go away.

I am gently leading her toward the light. I know I can't force it one way or another. I will start forwarding legit news stories to her. One of the problems is she is not terribly well informed, so most of what she hears about politics is repuke talking points from her crazy mom.

[BillZBubb]

5. argument that banning abortion won't make it go away

It used to be illegal and very dangerous, yet there were plenty of abortions.

But the real issue is that the Republicans have controlled all of government now for four years. They've had ending abortion on their platform as a top issue for over 20 years. Yet, why have they NEVER moved to stop all abortions?

Answer: because it's an issue they want to keep alive. They get all those votes from single issue people who don't ever hold them accountable--ie suckers.

It's just like poor people voting Repug for "tax cuts". They are being played.

[Booster]

7. I don't know if anyone remembers when Bush 1 was

running for President, a reporter asked him "what would you do if one of your granddaughters came to you and said they wanted to have an abortion?". Bush stammered around and said "well, I would try my best to talk her out of it, but in the end it would be her choice". See, rich people know good and well that they can get a safe, clean abortion for anyone in their family because they have money and clout. Repugs and fundamentalists alike will continue to get abortions if they want one; they just don't want poor people to have a choice. Hypocrites abound.

[wildeyed]

9. Sadly, that is probably true.

My babysitter is a middle aged recently divorced woman. Left the marriage with nothing and has no marketable skills b/c she spent her life raising kids and making a home.

She is so close to the edge of being destitute, it is scary. If she gets sick or her car breaks down, she is done for, probably on the streets. The repugs will do nothing for her if she falls over the edge, despite the fact that she is a hard working,good hearted person. And she knows it. But she will likely vote repug in November 'cause she want to save all those unborn babies.

I am talking to her about the importance taking care of the born babies, too. Also, abortions happen whether they are banned or not, so making it illegal doesn't make stop. I feel that I am making some progress, helping her to think a little.

[grasswire]

4. interesting point

You wrote: "I would be MORE likely to consider a repub candidate now that I have been posting on this site for awhile. Why? Well because I am better informed and I trust myself to make decisions."

This is why propagandists of the right demonize the press as "liberal." A lot of energy is spent keeping Republicans from becoming informed.

My sister is a ditto-head Republican. Despite the fact that she spends about six hours a day listening to "news" she knows very little of what I know. And if I tell her something that I know to be fact, she'll say "Where did you hear that?" and immediately discount it because it hasn't come from her sources.

These people are fully propagandized. Who would have thought it could happen here?

[liberal N proud]

6. You are a true liberal now, you feel you can make your own decision.

Congratulations.
You need to keep having those conversations with your friend, get her to where she too can make her own decisions rather than voting because that is what here family has always voted.
When I find someone who says I have always voted republican, I see the opening to convince these people to think for themselves.
It frees the voter and makes the candidates responsible to sell something real.

[wellstone dem]

8. Regarding abortion and Christian issue

I am a Christian and that is why I must vote Democratic.

Abortion is a very tough issue for folks who believe life begins at conception. One approach is to focus on "Pro-life" title, to vote Republican means that you are voting to oppose abortion but are also voting to oppose measures to care for children already born...check healthcare, Iraq, funding for prenatal care, affordable housing,funding for child protection agencies, education, etc. The other argument that tugs at the heartstrings is what do we do if abortion is made illegal, put doctors in jail when we don't have enough doctors? Put 15 year olds in jail?

[wildeyed]

10. I know abortion is a tough issue.

I know many dems who are opposed to abortion. I am hoping there is a coherent website out there that deals with the issue 'how to be anti-abortion and still vote democratic'.