A small ray of hope. I have done the impossible! (A convert tale).

[SpecialK84]

On this gloomy, rainy day (literally as well as figuratively), I have succeeded in what I would have just weeks ago deemed an impossible task. I have made a convert out of my Uncle.

Well, not quite, technically he's not fully sold on Kerry, but he has pledged he's no longer voting for Bush (or Nadar). He may abstain from voting completely which is at the very lest, IMO, better then a vote for Bush. (I'm in Missouri, btw, which is a "swing state" -- as annoying as I find that term/concept).

The real miracle of this though is that my uncle is the epitome of a stereotypical Bush-man. He's a single, white male, low income, listens to country music and loves going to the NASCAR track. Most importantly though, he is a die-hard, end-times salivating, born-again evangelical Christian with a mean streak that runs as deep as the national debt. He has more then a touch of racism and hatred; conversations are regularly peppered with derogatory terms towards blacks and gays (and pretty much anyone else who disagrees with him in any way).

While his story of heavy drug abuse and drinking before being 'saved' is typical, he's really not. I grew up with my uncle (I was raised by my grandparents while he was still living at home) before he 'found Jesus' and really other then a few more tattoos (now of crosses and praying hands) as well as random rants of Revelations 'prophecy' and attempts to save me from being 'left behind', he's basically the same person. At his core, he's intelligent (in the book-educated sense, obviously not on most social issues) and can be a fun person to be around.

This was why I knew there had to be a part of him that could still see this administration for what it was, based on facts. There have been many a time when yelling has broken out at our house over these kinds of issues. (For some reason, I can debate wonderfully with anyone I'm not related to ... but bring family into the mix and I become an over-emotional basketcase; I can hardly talk for all the crying. I guess you could call it passion).

I spent a long time being patient and getting together my argument ... I knew I had to cut him off before he could throw a "these are the things that have to happen for Jesus to return" statement my way, or I had to counter it. I was able to do both. I knew I couldn't really win on an economic or terrorism front ... I had to go for the juggler and use their own weapon of faith against them without coming off hypocritically.

Through some investigating I was able to use facts about the administration and the Bible to paint Bush as false a prophet as they come ... just shy of the Anti-Christ himself. It worked.

While my most prized, he's not my first convert. My Grandma made the mistake of getting caught in the Bush trap in 2000. Although I was only 16 at the time, I told her then she was making the wrong choice. Luckily, having never for a second wavered on my standing, four years later she was more inclined to listen to what I had to say. She too is very religious and that blinds her when it comes to some things. But my persistence and constant message of truth finally got through. She went so far as to let me put a Kerry sign in her yard! That made my day!

In short, I just wanted to share this to let people know it's not impossible. It's SO easy to get discouraged; it's been a tough week (... er, make that month ... no, how about 4 years!) and I know there is a lot of anger (I'm mad as hell most the time), but there really is hope.

I might be young and naive, but even if that is the case I don't want to 'wake up' if that means living my whole life cynically; thinking there are some things that will never be changed no matter how hard I try. I honestly believe there is still a chance for everything and everyone to change for the better. Call me an idealist, that’s alright ... all I know is I have broken two very rock-solid fundamental evangelicals; something everyone says is impossible.

[kimchi]

1. Good job!

Although, I must tell you, there is significant minority of bornagains that DO think Bush is the anti-Christ. I shit you not. Here's hoping they have a voice, at least until November!

[NMDemDist2]

2. this is solid gold, now write down every argument you used and

response you needed

there are several who need the ammo

[camby]

3. Go you, Go you!

Keep up the good work. I have been working on an evangelical who works in my husband's office. He's a pretty tough nut to crack. Glad to see that it is possible.

[liberal N proud]

4. Congratulations!

Glad to hear success stories. I do hope you can convince him to actually vote for Kerry, we need the vote and I hate to see people not vote.
It is a privilege and a duty we as Americans all must do!
It is a shame there are so many people who just do not vote when they have the right while in much of the world it is not possible.
Way to GO!
:bounce: :bounce: :kick:

[deadparrot]

5. As a fellow Missourian...

I say well done! My great aunt and uncle, died in the wool Republican, are both seriously considering Kerry. Either way, though, they're not voting for *.

[saracat]

6. And Unlike my postI dare the WSJ to print this post from DU!

But they will never print your post because it is positive.Congratulations and soldier on!We will win by exactly what you are doing.By a vote at a time we will defeat them! Thank you!

[A_Possum]

7. Yes, please, can you tell us what facts and biblical references you used?

I definitely would like to be armed with this with my sister. She's convinced that Jesus insists that all Christians vote for Bush.

I thought she was hopeless, but one day she broke out in a rant about some CEO she knows who was supporting the war in Iraq, and she surprised me by appearing to be upset at his cavalier attitude. She has two sons, one is nearly 15 and I think she may be secretly worried about a draft.

And by the way, you don't sound naive, but very wise for your age! I'm glad you'll be able to vote this time, we need you!

[belle]

15. Try directing her to www.sojourners.org

Progressive Christian website; might help debunk the "Jesus is a Republican" thing a bit.

[SpecialK84]

16. Will post bible passages tomorrow, they're on the other computer.

I'm at school again right now, and I have everything saved on my home computer, we had a family labor day weekend 'thing' at our house yesterday that's why I was able to talk to him then, I'm going back tomorrow so I'll post them from there.

A big thing was Israel (of course). I have a link somewhere about Bush making a comment (a while ago, like 94), something along the lines of "I wonder if they know they're all going to hell" (about the Jews). I just threw this in because it was so hateful.

Also, I know in Matthew 24:36 it says "no man shall know the time"...etc of the rapture. I used this in context with Bush doing things (like invading Iraq, so we have control of Babylon) intentionally with intent to speed up the process of the Jesus' coming. They call that a form of calendarizing, which is against their church teachings. You are supposed to be "watching" and waiting for him, living a good life, but by trying to predict or produce results, you're "playing God".

Also, I compared Bush to the "evil servent" in the Faithful Servent and Evil Servent(Matthew 24, verses 45-51)

"But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming' and begins to beat his fellow servents ..... the master will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that is not aware of and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites."

Talk of false prophets in general. Matthew 7:15 "beware of falee prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits." (Bush's fruits are, well, obvious)

I do remember this story in The Nation also helped me: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031222&s=stam


This is all off the top of my head, like I said, tomorrow I will get my lists off my other computer.

The thing about the Bible (that makes it so very dangerous) is the fact it is so easy to interpret however you wish with just a few words here or there. I tried not to take anything too out of what I know their beliefs of the context are, but it's tricky stuff.


( P.S. gratuitous -- I'm a she. LOL. )

[seabeyond]

8. you ARE young,..........and you are the FUTURE

i am so proud of you. and you warm my heart, make me feel so good. thank you for all your effort and your passion adn being a part of the voice of america. do you feel proud. you should. good for you.

[redstateblues]

9. You Rock!!!

[fudge stripe cookays]

10. SpecialK, you RULE!

This is wonderful news!

Please post your methods, verses you might have used, artcles, etc. Some of us really need this stuff.

I know crispini and I are working on some folks here where we work that are convinced that Bush is the "Christian" choice.

We have to wake these people up. Congratulations on doing just that!

FSC

[Booster]

11. I've always believed it will be the very young and

the very old that change things around. Both have more to lose than middle aged people. Ya done good, kid.

[Nana]

12. New here..but so glad to find you all...

and I loved this tale of achievement. Congrats!!!

May I add one of my own...converting my husband who had, until this year, felt the political process and voting was a joke, into a voter. He's 36 and registered for the first time and will vote this November for Kerry. He never liked * but my task was lighting the flame under him to get him to do something about it and believe it made a difference.

So, one more over here that isn't a "likely" voter who will be adding their voice to the masses of Kerry supporters!

And, again, thanks to everyone here..

[newyawker99]

17. Hi Nana!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Broadslidin]

13. Political Conversation at My Favorite Dirt Track......!

Hi Special K84,

For the first time ever,
political conversations have popped up nearly
every Saturday during this racing season at my
favorite Dirt Track, Oakshade Raceway in
Northwestern Ohio.

A lot of People, many of whom have served in the military
who have never before metioned politics are now talking about
the horrors and death in Iraq, Health Care and
traveling in groups to Windsor Canada for prescription drugs,
disgust with the
Union busting by the Bush government, corporations
being allowed to reduce their retiree pension obligations.
I am really amazed, how informed the conversations
have been.

Only one person has insisted, the WMD's in Iraq will
be found.

No person, I have known at the track has ever expressed
racism or real hatred towards anyone.

Another interesting observation, with several thousand people
attending every Saturday night, there is Never an
S.U.V. vehicle to be seen in the parking lot or pits.
Plus, the confederate flag cannot be found anywhere on the
"Working" pick up trucks.

Rusty Schlenk, working the top and bottom grooves to perfection,
won a Terrific Late Model Feature
Saturday Night.

[gratuitous]

14. Here are two secrets

Number one, Special K84 speaks the language of his relatives. If you can't couch some of these counterarguments in biblical language, you're lost. These folks know several passages of their Bibles very well, and any point you make that doesn't have a biblical buttress is going to have problems.

Second, be yourself. What SpecialK84 is doing comes from the heart. "I told my grandma she was making the wrong choice," and when SpecialK84 didn't waver on that point, Grandma was decidedly more inclined to listen.

This may or may not translate to your personal situation. Mileage may vary.