I'm sick and tired of this "Soclialist" meme. This argument should shut everyone's mouth...

[Neutralator]

What McCapitalist really wants to do is take money from the poor and the middle class, and redistribute to handful of rich people!!! Isn't that what he and his campaign are essentially saying? Even worse the rich are passing the debt to the poor!! Check the link.

The data supports this argument and his economic policies are the direct cause. Isn't this an irrefutable fact? Why am I not seeing this argument anywhere?

From wikipedia...

"Corresponding to financial resources, the wealthy strategically organize their money so that it will produce profit. Affluent people are more likely to allocate their money in financial services such as stocks, bonds, and other investments. Yet those who are not wealthy are likely to have their money in savings accounts and home ownership <14>. This difference comprises the largest reason for the continuation of wealth inequality in America; the rich are accumulating more assets while the middle and working classes are just getting by. Currently, the richest 1% hold about one-third of all privately held wealth in the United States<15> while the bottom 90% held 73% of all debt<16>. These staggering statistics suggest that wealth inequality is deeply rooted in today's society and supports a class system in the United States."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States


Palin heard the word "socialism" a week ago and now she's an expert!?

[kikiek]

1. Actually I heard tape of McCain on one of the morning talk shows today

saying people who make more money shouldn't mind paying more. It was very socialist sounding. I can't remember which show had it on. Maybe Randi Rhodes.

[iceman66]

8. That was from 2000,

before he completely sold his soul to the far right.

[kikiek]

11. I don't care how old it is. He said it.

[iceman66]

15. Yes, and they should make an ad out of it!

[kikiek]

23. Absolutley!

[Sebastian Doyle]

2. Palin IS a socialist!

She takes oil company profits and pays a piece of them to every resident of Alaska.

Sounds like "spreading the wealth around" to me.

[kikiek]

4. And taxed us in the lower 48 to pay it also.

[creature of habit]

3. Macdaddy has changed it

It's not sticking with younger voters who don't know what socialism is - who are overwhelmingly votng for big O. He is now calling it "income redistribution" - some smart aide probably told him that.


McCain wants to redistribute income form the bottom up, over and over again.



I don't even watch him or his running mates interviews anymore My mind has been made up ever since Big O's acceptance speech. Let's get on with it. I can't wait to cast my vote Nov. 4.

[iceman66]

5. That is exactly the case.

He specifically wants to lower taxes on the rich, and increase taxes on the middle class (via his plan to tax employer-provided health care benefits as income). A real reverse Robin Hood!

[patrice]

6. Demanding Real Value in return for Real Value invested is not Socialism; it's Capitalism

The time/labor/talent/skills of American Labor is Real Value. The jobs and paychecks we receive in exchange for our time/labor/talent/skills are not Real Values. No matter how good your work, nor how consistent your attendance and work-ethic, your job can disappear for reasons that have nothing to do with you, so jobs are not a Real Value. The value of the paychecks and property that we receive in exchange for our work, as Wall Street recently VERY clearly demonstrated, is nothing more than 0s and 1s manipulated by PRIVATE computers, so paychecks and property are NOT Real Values.

What is a good American Labor Capitalist to do? Continue to invest ourselves without Real Value in return? That would be BAD Capitalism. That would be Stupid.

Good Capitalism would be: In exchange for our cooperation with, and personal investment of time/labor/talent/skills into our systems, economic, political, social, legal, etc., American Labor should receive Real Value in return. Real Value would be things such as: Universal Health Care, Complete and appropriate Education, Genuine Justice, Rational national budget priorities, stuff like that. These Real Values are the profits that we as Good Capitalists should receive for the Real Value of the lives that we invest in something called America. If America does not give us a return on our investment of ourselves, then there is nothing that can be called a relationship between us and it, nothing that can be called a nation, no "America."

[Neutralator]

13. Great point! Never thought the way you put it.

[patrice]

19. Not my idea really. I think someone told me once that this concept is somewhere in

Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, maybe not the Universal Health Care, Education, etc. part of it, but the concept that Labor is a Real value, the same way that Real estate is.

[demosincebirth]

7. Back in the early 20th century there was a big socialist movement,

in California, backed by unions and leftist organizations. Jack London (author) was known as a socialist.

[susanna]

12. I'm reading about that period right now, actually, in a biography of Sinclair Lewis.

Strange you mention that. Lewis was a contemporary of Jack London's. There is quite a bit about the socialist movement of the early 20th century in the book, if only as a backdrop to Lewis' early days as an author. Very interesting read.

[demosincebirth]

24. It grew to pretty good size until we entered WW1 and it kind of petered out after that.

[life_long_dem]

17. Remember Upton Sinclair? I'm not advocating anything here,

I just thought this was interesting reading material.

Of his gubernatorial bids, Sinclair remarked in 1951: "The American People will take Socialism, but they won't take the label. I certainly proved it in the case of EPIC. Running on the Socialist ticket I got 60,000 votes, and running on the slogan to 'End Poverty in California' I got 879,000. I think we simply have to recognize the fact that our enemies have succeeded in spreading the Big Lie. There is no use attacking it by a front attack, it is much better to out-flank them."<10>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upton_Sinclair


End Poverty in California
The EPIC Movement
THE LITERARY DIGEST asked Upton Sinclair, Democratic candidate for Governor of California, to contribute the current article on the “outstanding issues of the forthcoming campaign and the fundamental problems confronting the country to-day.”

http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist1/sinclair.html

[The Brethren]

9. Word games work

when ignorant people are involved.

One of the largest institutions in our country - our public educational institution is a socialist principle that is used in our country and paid for with taxpayers monies. And if we didn't use a socialistic/public school system, we would have to use private schools only -- for the smaller amount of parents/guardians who can afford it. The ridiculous fear and hypocrisy over whether socialism will somehow be introduced into our country through Obama is absurd.

Socialism is already here in the USA and every American, one way or another, is affected by it.

[TexasObserver]

10. The appropriate answer: "So a 3% tax increase on the top 5% is socialism?"

[theothersnippywshrub]

14. I think it might be time to drop a "Reagan Bomb" on McCain's claim that Obama is a socialist.

McCain claims that Obama is a socialist for wanting to give refundable tax cuts to people who do not pay federal income taxes. Such a program already is a part of federal tax law and has been for many years. It is usually referred to as the "Earned Income Tax Credit" or the EITC. It was greatly expanded while Reagan was in office and Reagan called it:

the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=11204

I think that if Obama, or some surrogates, started talking about Reagan's strong support for what Obama wants to do it would absolutely knock McCain on his ass.

I have never been a fan of Reagan, but he was well liked by many Americans, and a lot of those people voted for Reagan as "Reagan democrats." I don't know whether any "Reagan democrats" might vote for Obama because of this line of argument, but I do think it would make McCain scramble to try and explain why Reagan was not a socialist but Obama is for proposing something that Reagan supported so strongly. Having to try and explain this would weaken McCain.

One final aspect to this is that I am sick to death of hearing the republican Tax Cut Monkeys flinging feces about Kennedy's tax cuts and how great they were for the economy. I would like to fling a little Reagan feces back in their faces.

[Neutralator]

16. That would be cool! (eom)

[theothersnippywshrub]

20. I think it would make McCain's eyes all squinty and his cheeks all puffy.. n/t

[sad sally]

18. The MOST socialist Governor in the US? Governor Palin of Alaska

Takes excess oil tax revenues and distributes it to all the good citizens of Alaska. hmmmm...

[Stuart G]

21. Please..do not worry about this idea-socialism..most Americans do not know what it is..

..neither does Palin. Too complex a term for most in U.S.A. Takes a week to really explain and understand (I taught it, and I recall clearly)...The old Soviet Union is gone..The term is out of use, and most don't know what it is ...and fewer care..

[d.amber]

22. More facts from the caused of the great depression...

I'm quoting from my daughters history book. "The American Journey" copyright 2007 combined volume, Goldfield Abbott Anderson Argersinger Barney Weir

"The Wall street Crash marked the beginning of the depression, but it did not cause it. The depression stemmed from weaknesses in the New Era economy. Most damaging was he unequal distribution of wealth and income. Worker's wages and farmer's incomes had fallen far behind industrial productivity and corporate profits; by 1929, the richest 0.1 percent of American families had as much total income as the bottom 42 percent. With more than half of the nation's people living at or below the subsistence level, there was not enough purchasing power to maintain the economy." page 726

There is more interesting information about tax cuts to the top.

"Government policies also bore some responsibility for the crash and depression. Failure to enforce antitrust laws had encouraged oligopolies and high prices; failure to regulate banking and stock market had permitted financial recklessness and irresponsible speculation. Reducing tax rates on the wealthy had also encouraged speculation and contributed to the maldistribution of income. Opposition to labor unions and collective bargaining helped keep workers' wages and purchasing power low. In short, the same governmental policies that shaped the booming 1920's also led to economic disaster." page 728

They say that we repeat history and we are. If anyone calls Obama a socialist for "spreading the wealth around", you might in fact refer to Obama as someone trying to practice fiscal responsibility.
Obama's tax plan is really a tax stimulus package that is called a tax rebate. We have done those in the past, but never bothered to pay for it. We have a war, but never bothered to pay for it. Obama is saying to the big corp and big businesses that the middle class is being squeezed. They do not have the buying power left to buy your goods. If you can't sell your goods then you can't stay open and you lay off workers. Those people then can't buy goods and it does down and down and down and down. Obama is offering a 500 per person or 1,000 per married couple tax refund to working families and is asking the top to pay for it by rolling back their taxes to Clinton years before Bush had his tax cut and war.

It is not socialism. It is a fiscally responsible stimulus package that will help all americans.
I'm sick of listening to this 'socialism' claim. It is wrong and we are repeating history again. May be learn something this time around.