Please help me respond to this anti-Kerry mass e-mail from Oliver North

[eeyore]

--edit for my being a total jackass and forgetting to post the e-mail!!"

:donut:

My wife works with a conservative cop who is teetering on the edge of voting for Kerry, so she has been working on him for months. He's her project for this election. His wife is going to vote for Kerry, so we're really trying to reel him in!

He forwards us the right wing spam e-mails that his conservative cop and military buddies send to him asking us "what do you think of this?".

Our latest project is this letter that Ollie North supposedly sent out to Kerry. Any ideas as to how to respond to this would be very much appreciated. The obvious place to start is the Kerry vs. Oliver North credibility/patriotism issue, but I have a feeling that a good part of this is just plain false.

Wanna help me get this cop to vote Dem for the first time ever?

Thanks!

- eeyore

---------------------------------------------------------

here's the e-mail......


August 27, 2004

  "Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry


Dear John,
 
As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.


 I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many medals as they deserved.


 This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either, John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home. There are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job isn't finished."


 Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so. Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.


 But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having, John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John.


 When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all, John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of committing terrible crimes and atrocities.


 On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted on television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed."


 And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any other body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of prisoners, the killing of prisoners."


 Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured because of you, John:


 Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says that for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be punished." He wasn't released until March 14, 1973.


 Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March 4, 1973.


 Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.


 John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you are a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either way, you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in chief.


 One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."
 Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?
Oliver North

[WMliberal]

1. um, text of the email please?

the first place I'd check its accuracy at is snopes.com

[eeyore]

9. big oops!

sorry 'bout that!

:dunce: :dunce: :dunce:

[merh]

2. Just google Oliver North and Iran-Contra

you will find sites like this one http://www.ncs.pvt.k12.va.us/ryerbury/aaron/aaron.htm

Oliver North is a crook --

[Catfight]

11. My first thought when Oliver North is mentioned is Iran/Contra and

how he is a confirmed liar and crook. It's like getting spam mail from Charles Manson.

[pdx_prog]

3. I had the priviledge of getting this one too

I looked every where I could think of for something to de-bunk it....I guess it is too new yet...

[eeyore]

17. Funny - I'm in Portland too....

Maybe it's going around with the conservatives in these parts. Nothing about it at Snopes.

The thing is, it may not be factually wrong, but it's certainly morally wrong. His main problem with Kerry is his work with Vietnam Vets Against the War. He's blaming the messenger for the problems that he was brave enough to speak about when he came home.

I see LTTE in the Oregonian nearly every day from WWII vets who rail on Kerry for his anti-war stance. I just don't get how people can question the courage in coming home and working at bringing out the truth what was going on. It's really sad.

[havocmom]

4. first order of business is to 'snopes' it

Any strange email material usually gets a run through snopes hogwash sniffer at our house.

Look for material which cannot be verified, usually 99.9% of the stuff in these emails falls into that category. Point out that it is hearsay, probably first said by Rove and sent out to all RW talking head reverberators. Repetition does not make something true.

Give facts on the issues mentioned.

Point out that in many states, Ollie North is unable to vote and/or purchase a firearm because he is a convicted felon, a crook, a man who got caught circumventing US laws.

Ollie North, pphhhttt. Why would anyone listen to a criminal who is still trying to justify his lawbreaking?

[frylock]

5. David Hackworth on Oliver North..

Hack tears "Ollie" a new cornshoot with this piece. Just send it to your wife's workmate.

Source: Playboy, June 1994, v41, n6, p90(5).

Title: Drugstore Marine (Oliver North)

Author: David Hackworth

Electronic Collection: A15456160 RN: A15456160

Full Text COPYRIGHT Playboy 1994

LET ME TRY to describe Oliver North in a few fast bursts. He's a jackass. He is so preposterous that there is a temptation to laugh at him. He's smarmy, a flatterer, a brownnoser. He's also a twisted impostor, a drugstore Marine with an apparent compulsion to bullshit just about all the time. But while he tries to fool people with his fantasies, he is also very easy to fool. He boasts that he was a can-do guy when he was in the White House, but the record spells no-can-do. North did terrible damage to the U.S. until he was caught. One thread runs through his performance--getting conned. The Iranians conned him, the contras conned him, the crooked arms dealers conned him and even Manuel Antonio Noriega conned him.

North is also one of the most dangerous men in America today. I've talked with him only once, by telephone on Michael Jackson's radio talk show on KABC in Los Angeles. I had done my homework and wasn't surprised when North put on his usual act. By the time I debated him I had talked with dozens of Marines and soldiers who knew him, as well as with former National Security Council staff colleagues. I had seen him on countless TV shows, had read about him in several books and hundreds of newspaper and magazine articles. "Does Oliver North Tell the Truth?" was the title of a June 1993 investigation in Reader's Digest. The writer, Rachel Wildavsky, presents a watertight case, providing names and dates and plenty of reasons why the answer to the headline is no. My own sources confirmed or amplified what Wildavsky reports: North "could not be believed--even under oath." One of his former colleagues is quoted as saying North "had trouble distinguishing between what was true and what he wished to be true."

In almost 50 years of being around soldiers, I have bumped into my fair share of bullshitters, but Ollie would have to take the first-place ribbon. His record shows that he is totally untrustworthy.

During the radio show I asked him to clarify a few of the contradictory stories he has told about himself. North bobbed and weaved and said that if we could get together he would explain everything. I don't want to go near the guy, and he can't make facts disappear by trying to flatter me. At the end of the show he said, "I'm under posttraumatic stress disorder from this interview." The fact is that North is the sort of guy who cringes at the truth.

<more>

http://www.geocities.com/thereaganyears/olivernorth.htm

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. A cop believes a convicted felon?

If I recall, North was convicted of lying to Congress during Iran-Contra.

[eeyore]

10. yup!!

a little cognitive dissonance goes a long way!

[The Blue Flower]

7. I knew Ollie in the USMC

I met Ollie in '68 just before he and his fellow Basic School grads went to Vietnam. My ex-husband was a good friend of his, and we were stationed with Ollie and his family at Quantico in the early '70s and then at Camp Lejeune in the late '70s. I can't be the only one who knows he spent time in a psych ward on Okinawa during that decade.

[Octafish]

32. Was it when he ran down Main Street naked, waving a Colt .45?

Thanks for the reminder, chaplin! I had almost forgotten the story. Seems the responsibilities of service a bit too much for him and he suffered a breakdown. Hackworth talks about it:

David Hackworth on Oliver North

EXCERPT...

Between 1969 and 1974 he spent most of his time in offices and classrooms and on training assignments. In late 1974 he again took charge of troops when he became a company commander, as a captain, on Okinawa. Just 29 days into the assignment, North--described to me by a follow officer who saw him at the time as an "emotional wreck"--surrendered his command.

He returned to the U.S., where he spent as much as three weeks at Bethesda Naval Hospital for some deep-shrinking by psychiatrists. The episode is shrouded in mystery. North himself is vague about it in Under Fire, his autobiography published reports that parts of his medical record were expunged. Meanwhile, there have been published reports (which North never legally challenged) that provide details about the apparent nervous breakdown. In one account he ran around naked, babbling incoherently and waving a .45 pistol.

CONTINUED...

http://www.airborne-ranger.com/ranger/wannabees/OllieNorth.html

PS: On a personal level, is Ollie a good guy or was he willing to do whatevever to whomever to get what he wanted? A relative of mine was in special forces and had to get professional help after finding out some, um, complex information that drove him to the edge...Still, my noble cuz never became a traitor.

[Sydnie]

8. Forget North.

Oliver North is a convicted felon. Only the GOP would honor this disgrace and reward him.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North

North was indicted March 16, 1988, on 16 felony counts. After standing trial on 12, North was convicted May 4, 1989 of three charges: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents. He was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard A. Gesell on July 5, 1989, to a three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines and 1,200 hours community service

" I was provided with additional input that was radically different from the truth. I assisted in furthering that version."- Oliver North


Believing what North has to say under oath, or otherwise, is a slippery slope of it's own!

[eeyore]

13. Perfect place to start...

Who you gonna believe - a convicted felon or the Yale grad who volunteered to go to war. Who has served their country more patriotically?

[Ducks In A Row]

12. Remind him he's a felon and only got out by a technicality.

north is a traitor.

[A_Possum]

14. Here's what Kerry did to hurt the men in Vietnam...

Kerry, the Congressional Record, 1971:

"Mr. Kerry: Well, Senator, frankly it does not appeal to me if American men have to continue to die when they don't have to, particularly when it seems the Government of this country is more concerned with the legality of where men sleep than it is with the legality of where they drop bombs. (Applause.)...

...But at the present moment that is not going to happen, so we are talking about men continuing to die for nothing and I think there is a tremendous moral question here which the Congress of the United States is ignoring...

...But I think if we can talk in this legislative body about filibustering for porkbarrel programs, then we should start now to talk about filibustering for the saving of lives and of our country. (Applause.)

And this, Mr. Chairman, is what we are trying to convey."


***********

He came back and fought to get them out of that hell-hole of a war, the same war that my husband still had nightmares about 7 years later when I met him. The same war that 20 years later, he broke down crying in a parking lot, out of the blue, and told me he had a knife hidden in the garage so he could use it on himself. The same war that he said then, "They turned us into killers and that's all I'm good for."

Ollie, we don't forget that guys like you wanted to keep on killing men for a mistake, that guys like you like to play Rambo no matter what, and don't care that you drag along decent men like my husband and turn them into killers for your games. And we don't forgive either.

********

Feel free to send your friend the above as part of your reply if you like.

[eeyore]

18. Thank you very much!

Having been born in '68, it's sometimes hard for me to put together exactly what happened in Vietnam. It was basically ignored in my education, perhaps it was still too fresh for people to talk about it. I do remember kids wearing POW/MIA patches, but it was never really explained to me what they were all about.

The willingness to share by people who have been, and still are, effected by those years is so valuable to all of us.

Thank you!

[A_Possum]

19. On the POW stuff

Here's a more full transcript which shows that one of Kerry's primary concerns was getting the POW's home as soon as possible, and that he spoke with the delegations in Paris for this reason (the anti-Kerry people try to spin the Paris talks as "negotiating with the enemy," but you'll see here that wasn't the case.)

*********

Kerry, the Congressional Record, 1971

The Chairman: Do you support or do you have any particular views about any one of them you wish to give the committee?

Mr. Kerry: My feeling, Senator, is undoubtedly this Congress, and I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I do not believe that this Congress will, in fact, end the war as we would like to, which is immediately and unilaterally and, therefore, if I were to speak I would say we would set a date and the date obviously would be the earliest possible date. But I would like to say, in answering that, that I do not believe it is necessary to stall any longer. I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned. (Comment: The same POW's who were so "devastated" by this attempt to get them freed sooner rather than later?)

I think this negates very clearly the argument of the President that we have to maintain a presence in Vietnam, to use as a negotiating block for the return of those prisoners. The setting of a date will accomplish that...

Mr. Kerry: Senator, if I may interject, I think that what we are trying to say is we do have a method. We believe we do have a plan, and that plan is that if this body were by some means either to permit a special referendum in this country so that the country itself might decide and therefore avoid this recrimination which people constantly refer to or if they couldn't do that, at least do it through immediate legislation which would state there would be an immediate cease-fire and we would be willing to undertake negotiations for a coalition government. But at the present moment that is not going to happen, so we are talking about men continuing to die for nothing and I think there is a tremendous moral question here which the Congress of the United States is ignoring.

The Chairman: The congress cannot directly under our system negotiate a cease-fire or anything of this kind. Under our constitutional system we can advice the President. We have to persuade the President of the urgency of taking this action. Now we have certain ways in which to proceed. We can, of course, express ourselves in a resolution or we can pass an act which directly affects appropriations which is the most concrete positive way the Congress can express itself.

But Congress has no capacity under our system to go out and negotiate a cease-fire. We have to persuade the Executive to do this for the country.

Mr. Kerry: Mr. Chairman, I realize that full well as a student of political science. I realize that we cannot negotiate treaties and I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera. I understand these things. But what I am saying is that I believe that there is a mood in this country which I know you are aware of and you have been one of the strongest critics of this war for the longest time. But I think if can talk in this legislative body about filibustering for porkbarrell programs, then we should start now to talk about filibustering for the saving of lives and of our country. (Applause.)

And this, Mr. Chairman, is what we are trying to convey.

************

There's nothing to hide in Kerry's testimony--in fact the more you know about it, the more you appreciate what he was trying to do for this country. As someone else said in this thread, suggest to your friend that they view it for themselves--his concern and love for the men fighting the war comes through in every word.

[gratuitous]

15. Here you go

My Lai, "we had to destroy the village in order to save it," "Vietnamization", the "secret" bombing of Cambodia (at Christmastime!), the lies, the inflated kill numbers, the deceptions.

America gave its young men, trusting that our elected leaders were dealing fairly and honestly, and telling us the truth about why we needed to spend thousands and thousands of young lives.

Well, after they'd been there a while, some of them took the Bible seriously. Love does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth (1 Cor 13:6). And because they loved their country, they came back from Vietnam, and told the truth about what was going on in Vietnam. They told the truth about how the trust of the American people had been betrayed by its leaders, and the atrocities committed in America's name and with its tax dollars.

Our leaders owed us the truth, and they still owe us the truth. THAT is a despicable act: To waste our young lives, our treasure, and our standing in the community of nations in service of a lie.

But if you love a pleasing lie more than you love an inconvenient truth, then by all means vote for George W. Bush and listen to Oliver North. They have an inexhaustible supply of pleasing lies.

[stray cat]

16. Start with Kerry's testimony!

If you watch his testimony it is quite clear that he supports the vets so much that he can't keep quiet about how they are being misused in Vietnam. His point was that even America's official policy in Vietnam with their free fire zones was a violation of the Geneva convention.

Ollie North believes any word not worshipping the policies of the commander and chief is unpatriotic. Ollie betrayed American and broke the laws to support Reagans Iran Contra policy. Is this mindless mentality really what we should call patriotism?

[xcmt]

20. Well, step one..

As some of the above posters noted, the first step is to help Republicans get their heads out of the sand regarding war crimes committed during the Vietnam War. Pointing out where American solders were bad men isn't exactly an unamerican thing.

You can back this up with commenting on the Tommy Franks interview on Hannity & Colmes, where he said he's sure atrocities were committed. There was another ex-soldier on the same show a few weeks later, can't remember his name, but he said something to the effect of "It would be any soldier's duty to report possible war crimes he's only heard stories about." Check the archives at dailyhowler.com.

You have to twist the message from "Kerry lied about honorable veterans to aid the enemy" to "Kerry helped expose criminals during the war". Just because they're ours, that doesn't make them immune to the law. You can then also, when whoever you're debating launches into any commentary on Oliver North, say something like "Well it seems all Republicans are into the habit of defending treasonous criminals, while attacking documented heroes."

Similarly, the 1971? debate where John O'Neill admits to having participated in free fire zones, followed immediately by Kerry reading from the Geneva convention.

[dogman]

21. Kerry did not accuse all of the troops, only the guilty.

If, like Hoffman, the shoe fits, wear it. Ask Ollie whose side he was on in the war on drugs.

[eeyore]

22. Here's our response that we sent him - how did we do?

edit for grammar....

Thanks to everyone for all of the help!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do I think of this? Well, first of all, I don't find Oliver North to be a credible source of information under any circumstances. Are you forgetting the man is a felon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North

But, even if you ignore North's total lack of credibility, he is leveling some charges at John Kerry that I've heard others speak as well, so I'll address those.

There are many Vietnam vets who are angry at Kerry for coming home after his service in the war and testifying about atrocities that Americans committed there. They seem to think that by doing so, he was saying that all American soldiers participated in such activities. I've never heard any indication that Kerry was portraying all American soldiers in this fashion. He was trying to bring to light the misdeeds of a few people. And my understanding is that this was only a small part of his testimony. Mostly he was speaking about the overall foolishness of the war. There are very few people anymore who don't think we should have gotten out of Vietnam much sooner.

Do you believe that American soldiers committed no atrocities in Vietnam? There is widespread documentation that some soldiers did. It doesn't mean in any way that all the soldiers share blame for the crimes committed by a few. It means that among many good people, there were a few bad apples. That those people should be held accountable does not diminish the honorable service of the many, many others.

Think of it this way- you and I know perfectly well that police officers don't always do the right thing. Among the many excellent officers, there are some very unethical ones. If one of your fellow officers did something extremely illegal and unethical and violent, would you shut up about it? Or would you speak up about it so they would be forced to stop? I'd like to think you'd do the latter. And it wouldn't mean that you were betraying all police officers. It would mean that you cared enough about doing the right thing and saving the integrity of the profession that you had to speak your mind. I don't see what Kerry did as being any different.

As for the POWs who say that Kerry's testimony increased their suffering and the amount of time they were held, I'm not going to deny anything about their experience or their perceptions of it. Who would I be to do so? But their captors would have used ANY excuse to abuse them further, no matter what Kerry did. It was their captors who hurt them, not Kerry.

I guess what my argument boils down to is this: what does it mean to be a good soldier and a patriot? To Oliver North, it means following orders without question and doing the bidding of your superiors, to the extent that he was willing to become the patsy for the Iran-Contra scandal. To John Kerry in Vietnam, it meant serving a tour of duty honorably, but not being willing to shut up about what was wrong about the war, in the hopes that getting the US to pull out of the war would save the lives of his fellow soldiers. He felt it was his patriotic duty to question the path that was set out by Pentagon, because the US had been led into a war that we could not win.

Is it more courageous and patriotic to shut your trap and follow orders no matter what, or speak up when your country is following a policy you think is dead wrong, and your friends are dying because of it?

[dogman]

25. Great response.

I hope it's effective.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

31. Nice response.

I consider any comment by Ollie North to be not credible. Kerry pretty much spearheaded the effort that landed North in jail. He has an axe to grind against Kerry, so any argument he tries to make isn't credible. There's no way the man can be impartial.

[baltodemvet]

23. More ammo

You've gotten good stuff. Hit home that coming back to oppose the war took courage and conviction. But you also need to move away from defending Kerry to a critique of Bush's performance as commander-in-chief.

Here's my take on that:
http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/090604DaveHollander.shtml

[spanone]

24. Oliver North should still be in jail.

[mitchum]

27. No, he should be in the ground

If there was any justice in this world...

[MagickMuffin]

26. Ollie has another reason

to trash Kerry. He exposed Iran Contra, therefore halting his gun/drug running cabal...

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/062003.shtml

WASHINGTON -- On a summer day in 1986, members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee gathered behind closed doors off the chamber floor to hear the sales pitch of a brash freshman, Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts.

Fifteen years earlier, Kerry had appeared before the same committee to denounce the Vietnam War, challenging the senators to answer the question: "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

Now, at age 42, Kerry was a senator himself, the US was embroiled in another anti-communist crusade in a distant land, and Kerry was determined to prevent a repeat of Vietnam.

He had spent the spring conducting an unauthorized investigation into reports that the Reagan administration was illegally providing aid to the rebel Nicaraguan Contra armies, which were attempting to overthrow the left-wing government of that Central American nation. At this closed session, he planned to urge the committee to launch an official probe.

[eeyore]

34. Great point!

I was unaware of this bit of history - thanks for the info!

[cheshire]

28. First of all remind him North was a scapegoat for shrub Sr.s fuck up

Second tell you friend the truth. Viet Nam was wrong, there is no way they would have won, other vets are mad because they think they could have won. The truth is they where being shot when they were dropped from planes while in their parachutes. Died and left hanging in trees. Jane Fonda was 1 idiot. John Kerry told a truth that this country never does. The military is known for covering up stuff. Kerry did not say all the men over there killed and did these things. The Vietnamese would have tortured no matter what.
Swifies are man because they lost and their pride is hurt just like men often do. Everyone uses their past to advance and Kerry's statement at the DNC was to show the people he could defend this country and He could do all the things the ass in office can't. If he can't see this he needs to look at the one who told the truth and the one who lies all the time and ask himself "Who do I trust." Good luck

[Octafish]

29. Kerry Discovered Oliver North's Operation was Running DRUGS

Gee. No wonder Ollie doesn't like JK. Ollie's probably tired of covering up for his boss, George Herbert Walker Bush. Wonder how mad the Traitor Ollie is at Poppy?

Here's the story:



Contra Intelligence on Oliver North

EXCERPT...

At the height of the Contra war, I (Celerino Castillo) was stationed in Central America for 5 years as the lead DEA agent in El Salvador. It was there that I came face to face with the contradictions of my assignments. I started to record intelligence on how known drug traffickers, with multiple DEA files, were utilizing hangars 4 and 5 at Illopango airbase in El Salvador, to transport monies and drugs. Those hangars were owned and operated by the CIA and NSC. The Contra supply operations utilized the most readily available capabilities: drug-smugglers, who had the planes and pilots to conduct clandestine flights from South and Central America to all parts of the United States. "Guns down, drugs back," was the formula.

During that period, I was warned several times by the DEA and the State Department to shut down my Contra investigations but not to close the files. The reason was that if I did not close the investigation, then the committees would not be able to have excess to the files under the Freedom of Information Act. However, I continued to file my reports on the Contras to DEA HQS. These reports on members of the Contra operators went on for several years.

During the 1980s, Felix Rodriguez was in charge of the Contras' supply network in El Salvador for Oliver North. In addition, Rodriguez hired a Cuban terrorist by the name of Luis Posada Carriles to help him run the operation. On October 1976, after an explosion sent a Cuban jetliner plummeting into the sea off Barbados, it was revealed that the mastermind behind the bombing was no other then Luis Posada. In late 2000, Posada was arrested in a plot to assassinate Cuban president Fidel Castro.

The July 9, 1984 entry in North's diary obligingly published by Senator John Kerry, states, in Ollie's own hand, "Wanted aircraft to go to Bolivia to pick up paste, want aircraft to pick up 1,500 kilos."

CONTINUED...

http://www.drugwar.com/castillonorthmay1104.shtm

[cheshire]

30. That's like being pissed at the police for catching you in a crime.

It's their fault.

[Octafish]

35. It's EXACTLY like being pissed at the police.

Thanks for the perfect metaphor.



During the 1987 Iran-Contra hearings, the following exchange took place between Representative Jack Brooks of Texas, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, and Brendan Sullivan, attorney for Colonel Oliver North, during North's testimony before Congress:

REPRESENTATIVE BROOKS: Colonel North, in your work at the NSC, were you not assigned, at one time, to work on plans for continuity of government in the event of a major disaster?

BRENDAN SULLIVAN: Mister Chairman?

SENATOR INOUYE: I believe that question touches upon a highly sensitive and classified area so I request that you not touch on that.

REPRESENTATIVE BROOKS: I was particularly concerned, Mister Chairman, because I read in Miami papers, and several others, that there had been a plan developed by that same agency, a contingency plan in the event of emergency, that would suspend the American constitution. And I was deeply concerned about it and wondered if that was the area in which he had worked. I believe that it was and I wanted to get his confirmation.

SENATOR INOUYE: May I most respectfully request that this matter not be touched upon at this stage. If we wish to get into this, I'm certain arrangements can be made for an executive session.

Brooks, a crusty, no-nonsense Democrat from Texas, had touched upon what may have been the most incredible, but least discussed, revelation of the entire Iran-Contra investigation: a planning exercise for the detention of large numbers of American citizens, similar to the internment of Japanese-American citizens in World War II. This was Readiness Exercise 1984, or "Rex84."

[eeyore]

33. Thanks!

Lots of info over there to digest - great site!

[Octafish]

36. Anytime, eeyore!

The BFEE's like an iceberg. One big tip above the waves is Ollie North. The guy screeches about the treasonou Liberal media and Liberals as commies, but, at heart, the guy is just a crook.

[rhite5]

39. Generational Differences over VN, and North's motivations

eeyore,

You may be focusing too much on trying to defend the specifics listed in Ollie North's e-mail. And there is actually no way now to refute those details. It is more important to focus on what Kerry was trying to do.

Remember, (1)Our country was sharply divided (like it is now) but moreso than now it was a division on generational lines. The older generation's frame of reference was World War II -- parents as well as those in position to make all national decisions. (2) the Senators were all older men who thought about Viet Nam much the same way they thought about World War II, the "good war," a war they had been a proud part of.

The older generation could not understand the depth and sincerity of the opposition to VietNam. The younger generation had no way to influence policy and many could not even talk to their parents.

WWII and VietNam were very different.

Kerry's message really was that Viet Nam was the wrong war (by then he knew it was started under false pretenses -- sound familiar?), and he knew it was a war we could never win. We were in a quagmire that threatened to either make monsters out of American boys or destroy them psychologically if it was allowed to continue unendingly. Vietnamese civilians were dying by the thousands and their countryside was being destroyed permanently.

So Kerry was trying to reach across this generational gap and connect with the decision-makers.

I think getting the FULL text of what Kerry had to say would help your wife's co-worker. I found it very moving when I read it recently. It brought back a lot of memories.

Feel free to include what I have said about the extreme generation gap that existed then. Your recipient may need that frame of reference if he is youngish.

It certainly does not hurt to mention that Ollie North is a convicted criminal who got a last minute pardon from GHW Bush (one of the *Christmas Eve* pardons at the end of GHWB's presidency), and is now displaying his loyalty by helping out his son, or to mention that Kerry had a role in the exposure of Iran-Contra, so North has a reason to resent him.

Good luck with your letter. You will win the guy over.

[zulchzulu]

37. Ollie should be writing from a goddamn prison cell

Or better yet, he should have hanged for his traitorous work that led to the Iran-Contra scandal.

John is going to go after you once he becomes President. I can see why you're scared, Ollie.

[Pushed To The Left]

38. North's e-mail has NOTHING to do with the issues

of this election. Whether one agrees with what John Kerry did after the Vietnam War is irrelevant. What matters is what he would do in office in 2004 and where he stands on the issues. This Oliver North e-mail sounds like more of that SwiftBoat-style non-issue crap aimed towards easily manipulated voters that don't pay attention to the issues. My advice would be to tell the officer to concentrate on the issues. This election isn't about Kerry's protesting vs. Bush's AWOL, DUI, or cocaine use. (Looks like Kerry win there, too!). It's about what direction he wants the country to go in right now.

[UdoKier]

40. North has a personal grudge against Kerry - he was caught red-handed!

"Kerry was the guy who helped bring all of North's Iran/Contra crimes to light. Why should we believe the convicted felon and traitor over the guy who nabbed him?"

Send that. If your pal is so ignorant as to not know what Iran/Contra was, you might include a brief outline of that too.

[MsConduct]

41. You mean that oliver north

the paper shredding traitor of the Iran Contra scandal has the nerve to say anything to Kerry about lying? Give me a break, puleeze!!


Peace